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| Panzertox & Hikaru vs Berserk Fuhrer & Gigan | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 27 2007, 10:55 PM (2,271 Views) | |
| Biochemitra | Sep 1 2007, 03:58 PM Post #26 |
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Queen of the sea
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You know, a wave of heat is a wave of charged particles. Now, if Wally's armor can deflect a wave of charged particles, then logically, he would be able to deflect a much more rapid wave of them. True, the CPC is more akin to a giant sandblaster than a heat beam, but the corona beam is more akin to a giant dagger than a heat beam, but I tend to think Wally would be able to deflect the corona beam too. |
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| Inferno Rodan | Sep 1 2007, 04:15 PM Post #27 |
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Kaiju Master
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http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/Inf...Comparison2.jpg There. That one is EXACT, give or take a couple pixels due to scaling both images up so that 5 pixels = 1 meter, then scaling the finished product down 25% so Photobucket wouldn't shrink it.
Read the sample battle. They give off no electrical discharge. No one said kaiju have to perfectly follow all the rules. |
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"Believe what you will, but you believe in vain." -Hiltz, Zoids The Arena !intGender=0;
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| Steve | Sep 1 2007, 04:54 PM Post #28 |
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Deadbeat cartoonist
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Your bio says otherwise...
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| Biochemitra | Sep 1 2007, 05:10 PM Post #29 |
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Queen of the sea
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If I may, I'm gonna cast my vote now. Winner: Panzertox & Hikaru. With the particle argument as it currently stands, I think Wally has the edge with his reflective hide. His superior size also works to his advantage and the arguments against BF losing one of its arms are meager at best. I do NOT think Hikaru is going to try a conscious suicide maneuver, but his presence offers an edge that greatly aids Wally. He just strikes me as too well-rounded and well-equipped for the opposition to handle. |
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| Inferno Rodan | Sep 1 2007, 08:08 PM Post #30 |
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Kaiju Master
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Your point being? They never displayed any electrical discharge when they were used in the demonstration battle. They don't have an electrical discharge. I say they don't. Therefore they don't. Deal with it.
I really fail to see how...
Let's see here... Both opponents are superior to Hikaru in Melee Ability, and his Ranged Ability is zero. BF nailed GKG, whom was flying at mach 3. He'll have no trouble doing the same with Hikaru. |
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"Believe what you will, but you believe in vain." -Hiltz, Zoids The Arena !intGender=0;
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| Steve | Sep 1 2007, 08:36 PM Post #31 |
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Deadbeat cartoonist
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O RLY?
Simply repeating "Because I SAY so!" is not a valid debate tactic, 'specially when what you've written repeatedly contradicts what you say.
I don't remember any Incredible Feats Of Agility from King Ghidorah or *any* Heisei Kaiju for that matter. Going really fast in a straight line is much different from being able to zip all over the place at roughly equal speed. |
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| Inferno Rodan | Sep 1 2007, 10:00 PM Post #32 |
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Kaiju Master
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YA RLY The bolts of electricity are from the electrostatic charge he uses to accelerate the particles. Durr.
As I said, kaiju don't have to follow the rules perfectly. You don't see me (nor do I see you, for that matter) disputing Rygama's ability to expell streams of LIQUID WATER that is hot enough to melt steel.
When you've got weapons that travel at nearly the speed of light, your opponent's speed and agility is hardly an issue. |
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"Believe what you will, but you believe in vain." -Hiltz, Zoids The Arena !intGender=0;
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| Steve | Sep 1 2007, 10:29 PM Post #33 |
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Deadbeat cartoonist
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Alright, fine. Consider it dropped, since it's clear that neither of us is going to budge on the matter. We'll assume, for a minute, that the BF's Charged-Particle-Beams-In-Name-Only are not made of protons or electrons and are magically able to accelerate through the atmosphere without an electrical discharge to carry them. They still emit heat. Heat is energy, Wally's scales reflect energy. Also, to re-address some points I made earlier which were not acknowledged, and to counter the points that were made earlier: Wally knows what Zoids are. His friend Dennis has Zoid models in his toy collection: http://koobine.deviantart.com/art/Dennis-Toys-47689290, among them, a Berserk Fury: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/141...rkFuryModel.jpg He knows what a Berserk Fury is and has an idea of what it can do, granting him another advantage over it. Wally comes into this battle with a fairly good idea of what one of his opponents can do; the BF has no such pre-existing knowledge of Wally's capabilities, leaving it at a disadvantage.
It’d be extremely amusing to see the BF think that’d work. Wally spins around rapidly to face his opponents several times in the sample battle scene; he needs to spin around quickly in order to stab and slash with his tail as rapidly as he can. Wally’s landspeed (when not in thunderball mode) is slow. His turning radius, his tail and his arms are clearly not slow, however.
Zilla fails at life, everybody knows that Wally performed a comparable feat when he blocked Guiron's shuriken with his forelimbs. Therefore, he can move his forelimbs as quickly as the BF can move its buster claws. And he has opposable thumbs! That makes him all the more terrifying in a grapple. As for Giggles jaws… stats give his bite force a score of 9. Wally’s tail also scores a 9. Ergo, if Giggles’ jaws can crush its buster claws, then Wally’s tailblade can shred them; if not the buster claws themselves than certainly the flimsy arms they’re attatched to. The buster claws are mounted on long, scrawny, obviously fragile appendages. Wally’s tailblade is mounted on what amounts to pure muscle wrapped around thick vertebrae and coated with armour bonded together at the molecular level by a forcefield projecting, independently conscious life-force. This is where I’m getting “sturdier” from… and his tail is faster than his forelimbs, which is where I’m getting “faster” from. Also: Assuming the Berserk Fury tries to blast Wally with his SCPC or TCPC, and assuming Wally would be taken out by it... what's stopping Wally from just Thunderballing out of its line of fire while it's charging and blasting the BF as it's powering down? Or blasting the ground underneath it while it's firing, after moving out of its line of fire? The frontal force shield only covers the front of the BF and the Omni-shield generates a dome, not a sphere. |
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| Biochemitra | Sep 2 2007, 01:30 AM Post #34 |
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Queen of the sea
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PLASMATIC WATER, thankyou. |
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| LordNidhogg | Sep 2 2007, 01:35 AM Post #35 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Supporting Bio: It's basically a plasma projectile made of ionized hydrogen and oxygen in the ratios that comprise water (correct me if I'm wrong), which is actually the ratio hydrogen and oxygen interact with best as a fuel-reaction. |
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| Inferno Rodan | Sep 2 2007, 10:53 PM Post #36 |
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Kaiju Master
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No they don't, actually. At least not directly. The friction from near-lightspeed particles coming in contact with matter generates heat. Kinda hard to reflect the heat when the only heat acting upon the scales is from them getting ripped apart on the molecular level.
Not much of a disadvantage when Wally is... less than intelligent to begin with. He may know much of what BF can do, but that doesn't mean he's smart enough to exploit any of its weaknesses. And BF doesn't need pre-existing knowledge of what Wally can do. He'll block every attack Wally throws at him. And it won't take long for him to notice how slow Wally is. Once he does, he will start using his speed and agility advantages to their fullest, ducking, weaving, and blocking while simultaneously eating away at Wally with his LPCs. It also won't take long for him to find the chinks in Wally's armor, and once he does, that's all he's gonna aim for.
Meh, point taken. Doesn't change the fact that BF is more than capable of blocking or boosting out of the way of any ranged attack Wally throws at him.
Ignoring the far more impressive aforementioned feat of lashing out with, slicing, and returning his Buster Claws before Zilla's head separated from his body, of course. That much larger movement, in a considerably shorter time, translates to much faster movement on BF's part.
Giga's jaws were toned WAY down for this tournament. And that logic is made of fail, due to the fact that BF's Buster Claws are also a 9. So if Wally's tail blade will shred BF's Buster Claws, it would be shredded in the process. And since BF would have another fully intact set in that scenario, while Wally would have nothing, that would be more debilitating to Wally than to BF. And good luck hitting the arms of the Claws. BF can easily parry Wally's blade with his own.
Wally's tail =/= Wally's tail blade. I'll readily admit his tail is more durable than BF's Claw arms. The blades themselves, which is what you were talking about, are a whole nother matter. And BF's are still faster, especially considering he has to whip his entire body around in order to hit something in front of himself. Regardless of how much you like it, the fact remains that BF matches Wally in Melee Ability. He's only a notch below Wally in Strength, and he more than compensates with his Speed, Reflexes, and Acrobatics.
Gigan being on his buttocks as well, for one. For two, BF is still capable of moving while charging either of his CPC attacks. He merely has to be locked down while firing them. So just trying to get out of its line of fire is quite futile. Okay, so let me put this entire battle into perspective here. Hikaru is screwed. Period. He'll be lucky to land more than two hits on either BF or Gigan. BF will simply mow him down with LPCs before he can even close the distance. Level 9 attacks > Level 4 Durability and level 2 Invulnerability. Against Gigan, Hikaru will probably be able to get close, but he'll quickly be shredded by Gigan's superior Melee Ability and weaponry. And whatever damage Hikaru does manage to inflict will be healed within seconds. So Hikaru is done in under 2 minutes. Whoever Wally is fighting is EASILY capable of handling him for that long. Then their partner arrives and they proceed to double-team and annihilate him. Gawd, BF and Gigan have Wally and Hikaru so far outclassed in stats it's not even funny... BF = 84.5 Gigan = 85.5 Wally = 67.5 Hikaru = 68 It's not even fair...
The point remains, because fire isn't hot enough to melt steel. |
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"Believe what you will, but you believe in vain." -Hiltz, Zoids The Arena !intGender=0;
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| Phelan | Sep 2 2007, 11:42 PM Post #37 |
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Only partially correct. You're right about the fact that friction with matter will create heat but last time I checked, air was still matter. It has mass; it takes up space...sounds like matter to me. Which means that the particle beam is losing energy the whole way due to friction. And we have to consider that no transfer of energy is completely 100% efficient and for the particle beam to work it's got to transfer its energy to Wally. Part of the beam's energy will be lost thanks to the fact no transfer is perfect. Light, sound, heat, etc....it's all waste energy for the particle beams. Plus there's the fact that as the beam travels from emitter to target, since it's got an electrically positive or negative charge, it'll ionize the air around it; creating a shell of plasma around the beam. Wally will get hurt if the Fuhrer blasts him with the LPCs but the fact of the matter is that the Light Particle Cannons are lower than Wally's Invulnerability stat and Wally can deflect at least some affects of the beam. Not all of it necessarily but enough to blunt its effects and give Wally a little more time. As far as Hikaru and Gigan go...even though Gigan can and probably will off Hikaru y'all have to consider that Hikaru's scythes and buzzsaw can really tear into Gigan. And there's the fact he's got four energy draining appendages to contend with as well as his own healing ability. Hikaru will do down....but it won't be as easy as everyone thinks. Especially since Hikaru's smart. He'll hide behind Wally and let Gigan come after him there and Wally's tailblade specifically states it inhibits regeneration and is just a really nasty weapon in general. Hikaru's smart enough to use that to his advantage when fighting Gigan. Also, bear in mind that for the Fuhrer to hit Hikaru with any of its weapons the weapons themselves have to stayed aimed a target moving at around mach 2. I don't think the Fuhrer's able to move the Buster Claws around quite that fast. So Hikaru's probably got a longer lifespan in this battle than y'all are giving him and he'll probably inflict more damage than y'all expect. Bear in mind that Hikaru's got higher speed, acrobatics, and reflex stats than anyone else in the battle. It's a matter of time before his death but he'll be more than just a target in this fight. |
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| LordNidhogg | Sep 2 2007, 11:59 PM Post #38 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Okay...please tell me you did not just say that. That has to be one of the most ignorant and stupid things I've heard on this board. Wow...I mean...wow. First: Obviously, fire does melt steel. Second: proof of this is in some recent and fairly recent disasters: 9/11 and the San Francisco bridge collapse come to mind. Third: what the hell do you think steel workers use to melt steel? Seriously, man! Use common sense! We haven't got very many things that burn and/or melt things! Now, that's not to say that said fire doesn't have to fairly intense, but in referring to Rygama's water-fireballs: if you get hot enough to totally ionize a water matrix into a super-heated plasma, yeah it's intense enough to melt steel. |
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| Biochemitra | Sep 3 2007, 12:30 AM Post #39 |
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Queen of the sea
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It's not fire, it's water turned plasma.
Not true at all. Just because they do the same damage to an opponent does not mean one can't overpower the other. BF's claws are longer, meaning the damage they do is more widespread over the body, where Wally's tail blade is short and wide. The more dispersed mass of the buster claws would logically be more vulnerable than the concentrated mass of the tail blade. |
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8:23 PM Jul 10