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    Is bigger better?; Does size matter?
    Topic Started: May 29 2008, 08:01 PM (2,344 Views)
    Spüne
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    Mecha-Godzilla's Brains Are In My Stomach!
    I'm of the opinion that the smaller the kaiju are, the scarier and more interesting the fight scenes are.

    I believe that if the kaiju are say, 30 meters tall - they can have more interesting impact on the environment you know; climb up buildings, throw stuff at each other. While when they're 150 meters tall they just trample on everything. I also think there is better interaction with the human characters which is always a difficult aspect of the film. Kaiju will notice people (be they main characters or soldiers) more which can make them scarier if they are out to get you.

    What do you think?
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    Mecha74
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    Though I do love kaiju to be monstrous behemoths I'd have to say that I agree with you. And even though they are not kaiju I'd also have to say that the recent Transformers film would seem like an excellent example of the scenario that you're speaking of IMO. Granted they're not 30 meters tall but I'm sure you get the gist of what I'm saying.
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    CurseTheseMetalHands
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    I think it depends on the movie but I'd love to see Godzilla return to his original height. And yes, Transformers was a good example (I think it counts as a kaiju movie strangely.) Massive robots couldn't have had such interesting locations - where as massive robots can fight in a city, smaller robots can fight in different areas of a city making a long battle more interesting.

    BTW, Mecha74, love the sig.
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    Mecha74
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    ^ Thanks, glad you like it. B)
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    LordNidhogg
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    Hm, well, although I can definitely see your point, and I agree to an extent, I see it somewhat differently. As anyone who has looked at my kaiju can tell, I like them big, like really big. And that's because I feel that size conveys something that smaller kaiju can't: a real sense of power. I mean, really, a thirty meter tall kaiju can be frightening, and do a lot of damage, but when a one-hundred and fifty meter tall kaiju comes ripping through your city, you know you're in trouble. I just think kaiju should feel really, really powerful and beyond what man can really fight with their usual weapons, and I think small kaiju just feel too vulnerable.

    Although, let's face it, my perception is a little skewed. After all, I am the guy that made the kilometer tall kaiju...
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    EternalMothra
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    Well in the Mothra Trilogy the kaiju were pretty small. So it obviously is a statement that size does not make you more powerful lol.

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    LordNidhogg
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    Well, I don't consider the Mothra trilogy kaiju legitimately powerful. They were move-out-of-a** beam spammers. None of them relied on physical strength or creative moves, they just pulled out bigger and better beams. I think good examples of kaiju are Biollante, Irys, Legion, even Destroyah. Yes, they had energy weapons, but they used them fairly creatively (Destroyah worse than the others), but they also relied on melee weapons and other things.

    Besides, power is one thing, being imposing is quite another. Yes, Grand King Ghidorah had quite a presence, but you stand him next to his Heisei counterpart, and he just doesn't have the same presence. And you stand anything except maybe Legion to Biollante, and they just look wimpy. Size does matter. It may not be the end all be all, but it makes a definite statement. Kaiju simply seem more invincible, more superior to humanity's weapons when they're larger.

    You could make a ten meter kaiju with all the power of Destroyah, Legion, and Spacegodzilla combined, but it just wouldn't have the same presence as a one hundred meter kaiju with the same power. That's my point.
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    EternalMothra
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    LordNidhogg
    May 29 2008, 11:33 PM
    Well, I don't consider the Mothra trilogy kaiju legitimately powerful. They were move-out-of-a** beam spammers. None of them relied on physical strength or creative moves, they just pulled out bigger and better beams. I think good examples of kaiju are Biollante, Irys, Legion, even Destroyah. Yes, they had energy weapons, but they used them fairly creatively (Destroyah worse than the others), but they also relied on melee weapons and other things.

    Besides, power is one thing, being imposing is quite another. Yes, Grand King Ghidorah had quite a presence, but you stand him next to his Heisei counterpart, and he just doesn't have the same presence. And you stand anything except maybe Legion to Biollante, and they just look wimpy. Size does matter. It may not be the end all be all, but it makes a definite statement. Kaiju simply seem more invincible, more superior to humanity's weapons when they're larger.

    You could make a ten meter kaiju with all the power of Destroyah, Legion, and Spacegodzilla combined, but it just wouldn't have the same presence as a one hundred meter kaiju with the same power. That's my point.

    -_-....Please tell me you've seen Mothra 3?

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    LordNidhogg
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    Of course I have. Why do you think I think Mothra Leo is the biggest move-out-of-a** weeny ever. And Grand King Ghidorah was impressive, but if you stood him next to Heisei King Ghidorah, who is 2.5 times as large in pretty much all dimensions, GKG would look like his kid brother. Sorry, but size matters. That's why Biollante was such an impressive force of a kaiju, she made Godzilla look downright puny.

    Another example: you throw the original Mothra against any of her successors, and despite their superior firepower, your first impression if you'd never seen them before you'd think that the bigger one would win, it's natural.

    And honestly, disregarding powers or anything, if you had a kaiju invade your town, which is more likely to scare you s***less, Legion or GMK Baragon? Kaiju just seem more powerful when they're bigger than half the stuff in your city.
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    EternalMothra
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    No I'm talking about Mothra's physical ability. No better movie supports that than Mothra III, unless you are forgetting her battle in the past with CKG.

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    Lordofmonsterisland
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    I can see both sides here. Yes, the small ones can interact with the environment, and, like in the case of Baragon, see and attack you, which ain't good. Still, I personally would be scared if something was much, much, much bigger. In my fan series, Godzilla is 50 meters, a nice height in my opinion, with everything else built up from that starting point. I was never a fan of the 100 meter scale of the Heisei series, it just seemed a bit much.
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    LordNidhogg
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    EternalMothra
    May 29 2008, 11:02 PM
    No I'm talking about Mothra's physical ability. No better movie supports that than Mothra III, unless you are forgetting her battle in the past with CKG.

    Mothra Leo's physical ability is laughable. Yeah, he managed to fight CKG, but compared to most kaiju, he's not really a contender. Hitting foes with wings, running into them with a fuzzy body, and battering them with tiny clawed legs hardly qualifies as a physical juggernaut. Besides, Mothra's idea of a real physical move is to either pick up something and throw/drop it on her foe or pick up her foe and drop them. It's an ok move, but it gets kind of stale. Mothra was ok in the Showa series, and pretty good in GMK, but don't use the Mothra trilogy as an example of physical prowess when there are kaiju like Irys, GMK Baragon, Gigan, and others. Mothra doesn't make a tooth and claw kaiju, because quite simply she's too frail to do much real damage.

    Back on topic, yes a small kaiju could be focused on you specifically, which is really frightening. But I'd be more worried about something that could reduce the tristate area to smoldering rubble. But like I said, I've always felt larger was better. The Heisei series, excluding the Mothra trilogy as you could probably tell, was my favorite. Besides, with man made structures being as ridiculously big as they are becoming, 100 meters+ isn't quite as large anymore.
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    EternalMothra
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    Mothra Leo's physical ability is laughable. Yeah, he managed to fight CKG, but compared to most kaiju, he's not really a contender. Hitting foes with wings, running into them with a fuzzy body, and battering them with tiny clawed legs hardly qualifies as a physical juggernaut. Besides, Mothra's idea of a real physical move is to either pick up something and throw/drop it on her foe or pick up her foe and drop them. It's an ok move, but it gets kind of stale. Mothra was ok in the Showa series, and pretty good in GMK, but don't use the Mothra trilogy as an example of physical prowess when there are kaiju like Irys, GMK Baragon, Gigan, and others. Mothra doesn't make a tooth and claw kaiju, because quite simply she's too frail to do much real damage.


    Ok, I'm seriously done arguing about the Mothra Trilogy. I acknowledge the fact that I'm the ONLY person who ever recognizes its for its perks instead of trying to deliberatly find negativity out of it. I'm just really tired of people underrating a Mothra that is actually not cannon fodder like most other Mothra's....like GMK...like GMM...like GFW....and even in the Showa series who can barely fly without being toast by one blast of energy from Godzilla. After all the punishment Mothra Leo took throughout the Trilogy, it is amazing how a "frail" Mothra like you say could take it. I guarentee you other Mothra's like GMK would have died....

    But no, I'm done arguing about that. It's ridiculous, seriously ridiculous. It's not my fault that 90% of the kaiju fandom is pure testosterone and can't stand anything else but utter physical butchering.

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    Lordofmonsterisland
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    Yeah, Leo was probably the most powerful of all that Mothra's, physically and beam-wise. But we probably ought to stop now.
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    LordNidhogg
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    I dislike the Mothra trilogy not because of anything relating to Mothra, I don't like it because they did the same thing in every darn movie. Mothra fights a monster with superior beam power, loses the first round, and then comes back with a shiny new form with bigger and better beams and wins. And that's pretty much it. Yes, Leo can take a lot, I can acknowledge that. But I believe that's because the enemies he fights carry more beam power than most of the Heisei Godzilla movies combined. Are the Mothra movies fun to watch? Yeah, but they're not spectacular examples of great kaiju films imo. I'm not trying to bash Mothra, I just think that she (although Leo was male) was portrayed better in other movies.

    Though I have to agree with you on thing, Leo could survive more than his fair share of punishment.
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    Gojira2000
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    I agree with Spune's initial post here; for me, a "good" kaiju size is 50 meters, give or take. Big enough to make you wet yourself but still smaller to be "controled" by its surroudings. Sure, 54Goji topped everything in the first film, but imagine a half-sized Heisei Goji in mordern Tokyo! Puny!

    A for the whole Mothra debate; I think that the trilogy is an all out beam wars, more even than the Heisei Godzilla films. And the physical combat that it does have really isn't enough to redeem it in THAT regard. BUT, I think Mothra as a kaiju in general is more than capable of handling herself physically--my favorite--and best--example being her 1964 battle in Mothra vs. Godzilla. Aside from poison powder, she relied solely on strength and she realyl gave Goji a run for his money--heck even the larva were impressive! The GMK and GMMG Mothras also illustrate this point pretty well, too.
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    EternalMothra
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    Except...they were cannon fodder against Godzilla, as usual.

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    LordNidhogg
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    Well, most monsters are cannon fodder against Godzilla...he's like Superman, but big and green.
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    EternalMothra
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    LordNidhogg
    May 30 2008, 11:37 PM
    Well, most monsters are cannon fodder against Godzilla...he's like Superman, but big and green.

    Mothra was far from cannon fodder in the trilogy...at least she could take a beam blast..X_X....or two..or three...or twelve....

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    Gojira2000
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    Mothra was hardly cannon fodder in MvsG! She beat him! As larvae! And again in GMMG, and in GvsM. And when Mothra DOES die at Godzilla's hand, it always slaps him back in the face, even in GMK. So really, I say Mothra--even in her "downgraded" versions--is on Godzilla's top 5 foe list.
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    EternalMothra
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    Gojira2000
    May 31 2008, 12:09 AM
    Mothra was hardly cannon fodder in MvsG! She beat him! As larvae! And again in GMMG, and in GvsM. And when Mothra DOES die at Godzilla's hand, it always slaps him back in the face, even in GMK. So really, I say Mothra--even in her "downgraded" versions--is on Godzilla's top 5 foe list.

    But still...I really grow tired of seeing her die every single time....

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    Gojira2000
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    She's a moth--they only live for like a week anyway. :P
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    EternalMothra
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    LOL, well generally reptiles don't live too long either. ;)

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    Mothra Freak
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    I'd like to say that, in regards to the Mothra Trilogy, I haven't seen it, so I won't really say anything. And despite the fact that Mothra almost always dies, it is due to her age in several movies. Let me point these out:
    In Mothra vs. Godzilla, Mothra was old. As in, already dying when she went to fight. Of course she was going to die. It made the movie better.

    In Godzilla: Tokyo SOS, Mothra was.. what, 40? That's pretty frikkin' old for even a giant moth.

    Godzilla: Final Wars- Hardly fodder. She was able to compose herself while she was engulfed in fire, and blew Gigan all to hell.

    In GMK, Mothra gave Godzilla a pretty big challenge. In fact, she actually took several of his beams before her death. Two, at least. The first time, she was flying away, and she managed to get ahead of it, so she wasn't damaged as much, and then when she protected Ghidorah.

    In Ebirah, Ghidorah, and GvsM92, Mothra didn't die.

    And size matters in presence, yes. If you do compare GKG with Heisei KG, GKG will look very weak. But looks are only skin deep. GKG will fry Heisei Ghiddy in ten seconds flat.

    The reason they increased Godzilla's size in RoG, was to make him seem more imposing.

    So yes and no.
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    EternalMothra
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    Nice analysis, MF.

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