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| 1) Raasgiel vs. Modra Aquaila vs. Tempest | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 10 2008, 11:31 PM (1,621 Views) | |
| EternalMothra | Aug 10 2008, 11:31 PM Post #1 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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1) Raasgiel (LordNidHogg's) vs. Modra Aquaila (EternalMothra's) vs. Tempest (Shive's) Time: Night Arena: Mackinac Island; Michigan |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 01:52 AM Post #2 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Wow. The final round. Congrats to Tempest and Modra Aquaila. Ok, now the breakdown. Raasgiel has one major advantage and one major weakness compared to both of its foes in this match. The weakness is speed: Tempest and Modra are going to be doing circles around it. The advantage is durability: Raasgiel can take far more punishment than either of its foes. Raasgiel also wields a considerable amount of sheer firepower, greatly improving its odds against these two relatively flimsy opponents. I'll address each opponent separately. First is Modra. Modra flies fast and has energy absorbing abilities, which are her greatest strengths. Now, even against something as fast and agile as Modra, Raasgiel has the weapons to deal with her, but more on that in a second. First, what Modra will try to do against Raasgiel. Modra is psychic, however telepathy doesn't do anything in a battle against Raasgiel (and I doubt Tempest for that matter, but since I'm not totally sure about Tempest's AI and telepathy, I'll let him weigh in) so that leaves her telekinesis. Unfortunately, that won't help much either; Raasgiel's inverted response to telekinesis will throw Modra for a loop (at least buying it time the first attempt), and as for weapons, well, it won't help much. She might be able to divert the carrion bursts, but definitely not the liquid cannon, carrion wave, or chronolance. So telekinesis, not so helpful. But she has potent energy absorbing abilities. Unfortunately, Raasgiel can dish out more than she can handle, to say nothing of adding Tempest to the mix, especially once its shield is down. But she's still hard to hit. Yes, but Raasgiel has a seeking weapon that preys on one of her major weaknesses, being fire, and then a mess of backup weapons. Also, and I need to say this, the liquid cannon may be the weapon that brings Modra down: I say this because as she's flying around (especially dodging a mess of seeking fireballs) she will inevitably pass within range of the liquid cannon. Raasgiel is a living gun, as such it can aim pretty well, and with a weapon that fires at railgun speeds (3km/s-20km/s is their speed range) it'd hit her. And I mean it would hit her: she does not have nearly enough telekinesis to even divert its path, and even if she stopped its acceleration by absorbing its kinetic energy it would have massive, unstoppable momentum. And all that power would unload into her fairly frail body. Not pretty. So, I think pretty close to the off Modra is going to be on defense, and once that happens she'll slowly be overwhelmed, assuming Tempest just stands there, which I'm sure won't hold true. That leaves Tempest, who is the definite wildcard. He has speed and power in spades, but lacks any real durability. But more important is who would he attack. Raasgiel and Modra would almost instantly be at odds due to conflicting energy types, which, even if they don't count as mana vs. anti-mana, would give each other seriously bad vibes. That, and Modra is a constantly moving target so Raasgiel would want to remove that as soon as possible. Back to Tempest. Now, of course Shive knows Tempest a lot better than I do, but from my vantage point, I think that Tempest would attack Modra first. I say this for a few reasons. The first is that Tempest's AI, Omega, doesn't like organics; now it may just be me, but I think Modra fits the bill a lot more than Raasgiel who looks and acts about as much alien spaceship as alien. The second reason is that, in the beginning, Modra would seem the bigger threat: she moves at supersonic speed, threatening him that way, and very quickly into the battle would display abilities like telekinesis and energy absorption, whereas Raasgiel would use almost exclusively carrion bursts in the beginning and stay mostly immobile. Now, that would fairly quickly leave the match to Raasgiel and Tempest; sorry, I just don't think Modra could survive a combined assault for long. Unfortunately, this is where Tempest would be hurting. The carrion bursts would do very little against Tempest, but the liquid cannon would devastate him. If Raasgiel connected, it would either end the match if Tempest had taken a fair beating earlier, or it would put it in a clear position to do so. But Raasgiel would have to connect. Now, in terms of firing speed, that's no problem, but Tempest could easily outmaneuver Raasgiel and may have just learned to watch out for the liquid cannon if it was used on Modra; I doubt Raasgiel would get the same kind of opportunity twice. But that's where the other two weapons come into play. Essentially, if the liquid cannon doesn't finish Tempest, then he will break the shield if its not already broken, and that would make him vulnerable to Raasgiel's super-weapons. The obvious question, then, is how? I mean, surely Tempest would know by that point to stay away from the front of the creature. Well, yes, but these weapons go behind Raasgiel, which is the most likely spot for Tempest to be. Once he breaks the shield, probably at range, he'll almost certainly move in with the Tempest blade. And why attack the side, that's almost constantly spewing near-invisible fireballs, when you can go for the defenseless and non-weapon jettisoning back? Unfortunately, he'd get hit back there, with some very heavy ordinance. If it's the carrion wave that hits him, he'll live but he'll be on the defensive knowing that Raasgiel can attack from all directions. If it's the chronolance, he won't get up. Now, I'd say it would be the wave because while the chronolance would do a better job, it has less of a chance to hit him. But, in that scenario, which I see as the most likely, Raasgiel would eventually win. But there is, of course, a second scenario: Tempest and Modra team up (somehow for some reason) and take on Raasgiel. While certainly more difficult, I still think Raasgiel has a good chance even against the stacked odds. If this scenario began to unfold, as in Tempest aiding Modra against Raasgiel, Raasgiel would quickly strike out against Tempest, and it would be with the liquid cannon. With Tempest being taken out, or at least rendered temporarily useless, by the weapon, Raasgiel would attack Modra. And Modra is simply a matter of wearing her down until she gets caught in one of Raasgiel's more powerful attacks. Or crashes down in a flaming heap, whichever comes first. Now, I need to make special mention of Tempest's harmonic cannon. That weapon could potentially instantly negate the factor of Raasgiel's shield, as the shield is made of solid sound (or that's as close as anyone can get to describing it). However, Tempest would have to get in range and survive long enough while scanning and using the weapon. I think he could do it, but it might cost him dearly. I don't know though. Besides, he'd have to actually use it/get the chance to use it for it to work. Whew, long post, but this is my early analysis and argument for Raasgiel. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 11 2008, 07:03 AM Post #3 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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A very long analysis! Which is good! lol Now as to my reply:. I acknowledge that he has a damn good amount of fire power, but I'm still trying to determine whether or not Modra would actually be able to protect herself from such things.
I'm sure Modra would learn quickly from Raas's inversion that Telekinesis is not really a good thing to use if she is intending on attacking him physically that way. However, I do see her being able to use her telekinesis against his energy oriented attacks, and even the Liquid Organic Cannon. Modra can repel things with her telekinisis that are up to 5 times her weight, which is roughly around 175,000 tons of weight. My question is, is any of Raasgiel's attacks add up to that much weight? Which is 75,000 more tons of weight than Raas has himself. Can he dish out weapons with that much force behind it? If not...Modra would be able to deflect them, or at least divert their course from hitting her. Oh I have a question...in regards of the Chronolance, which Godzilla's beam is 3 times less powerful than it? You never really specified. Despite Raas' anti-mana capabilities, it does explain in his profile that if he is hit by a mana-based weapon----that it would cause a lot of damage. Which is ironically Modra's energy source. Ok now, in regards of Tempest. If Tempest immediatly went for Modra, it would probably be his greatest mistake in this entire battle. Which is why I see him going down pretty quickly if he actually attacks her. If nobody has noticed, Modra's weapons are also electrically based----which is Tempest's weakness. Electricity + Tempest = Fried Tempest, which would leave the battle down to Raasgiel and Modra. Which again brings me back to Raasgiel. It is mentioned in his profile that his shield does not regenerate over time. Does that mean that his shield will eventually become inoperable? Due to the fact that mana reacts potently with Raas, Modra's energy is going to be critical to her if she is going to end up overwhelming this shield. I'm kinda stuck as to who would win between Modra and Raasgiel, however I do think Tempest may be defeated if he decides to attack Modra first, her electrical abilities would probably fry him. ((Don't kill me Shive lol)) |
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| Lordofmonsterisland | Aug 11 2008, 10:59 AM Post #4 |
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Kaiju Acolyte
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Ouch........ this one's gonna hurt me to decide. Three good, awesome monsters, pitted against each other......... oh, this one's gonna take a while. |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 11:52 AM Post #5 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Ok, first the liquid cannon. Two things need to be set up in order to give any idea about how much force the liquid cannon will generate: one is how much mass each "slug" has and one is the firing speed. I didn't really want to get into specifics, but w/e. Ok, a slug for Raasgiel's cannon would weigh in at 500-1,000 metric tons, or .5-1% of its mass. And I'll say it's relatively slow for a railgun at 5 km/s. So let's do the math. Force=mass x acceleration, so F=500x5000 (it would be converted to meters) which then becomes F=250,000, so essentially the weak shot would have 250,000 tons-force behind it. The bigger shot would have double that due to the double mass. So, I stand by Modra having a very hard time even slowing it down or diverting it. Plus, it's moving a 5 km/s-how is she even going to react to something that fast? The chronolance is 3x as much as Heisei's beam, but don't worry, it can't be absorbed or moved at all because of its nature. The reason being Modra is able to absorb energy that moves, the chronolance doesn't. Technically, the Chronolance exists out of time because it is an energy weapon in which the energy does not travel: it acts almost like a solid. Like the shield, which is solid sound, the chronolance could be called solid energy. So, it would hurt like heck to get hit by, but there's not much you can do about it unless you can hack into time. Here telekinesis on other attacks is open to debate. I guess she could move the carrion bursts, although just moving them means they'll still come after her and soon she might have more than she could handle. However, I don't see it working on the wave. I mean, what's she going to do, wrinkle the wave of energy that's released? I just don't see it being effective. Maybe, but I don't see it yet. Now for the mana. This is definitely a two way street. If Modra runs on mana, she'll be able to hurt Raasgiel more, but all of Raasgiel's attacks except the liquid cannon would be roughly 3x as powerful as they are now. So, suddenly pushing the little carrion bursts away becomes a very high priority, meaning Modra is still going to be on the defensive. As for the shield, no it does not regenerate, so any damage done to it is permanent within the battle. It makes up for this by being able to take a good beating. Modra's mana-based energies will help lower it faster, but that leads to Raasgiel's most powerful weapons coming into play. Now, here's the thing about Tempest: if he attacks Modra, and Modra diverts her attention to put him down, that opens her up to Raasgiel's attacks when she wouldn't be adequately prepared to respond in time. So, if what you're saying is true, Modra would go down as soon as or before Tempest, or at least take a large amount of damage. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 11 2008, 02:20 PM Post #6 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Well her telekinesis won't be able to literally knock it away, however she could divert it's course slightly. However, doing that maybe unwise since it is being shot at that speed. So her telekinesis may not work that well. Something I can see likely happening, would be Modra using her telekinesis to aim the liquid cannon toward Tempest. Like I said before, she won't be able to stop it and its momentum, but she can divert it slightly.
That is true...Modra does not possess the ability to manipulate time. Now if this was Zembare we were talking about here, that'd probably be different.
Now as for the carrion wave, it says in the profile that a signifigantly fast kaiju could actually evade it due to the fact that it is two-dimensional.
That is very true. Modra using her mana against Raasgiel isn't only weaking him, but making him stronger at the same time. **god Lord...what a way to make a kaiju confusing lol**
One thing I would like to point out, is the arena. There's a lot of water, and little land mass. I know Raas levitates, and Tempest can sorta hover/leap, however especially in Tempest's concern-----this arena makes his weakness of electricity even more critical. (water conducts electricity). Modra will no doubt recognize Raasgiel as the greater threat, and her best bet in protection here is her electrical scales. They can reflect energy no matter how powerful it is----and in Tempest's regard, it'd be kinda difficult for him to attack if he's being douced in electrical currents. |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 03:31 PM Post #7 |
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Lord of Overkill
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I have to apologize: I mis-posted the force for the railgun (I wasn't wearing my glasses and I missed a zero) it's 2,500,000 metric tons of force at the low end and 5,000,000 for the high end. So...Modra, hell any kaiju, would be very hard pressed to stop it or divert it. And sorry for Raasgiel being confusing, but since mana and anti-mana would react it only makes sense that it would be a two way thing. My question, however, is whether any of Modra's attacks would do any serious damage to Raasgiel's body. The shield definitely, but could any of her attacks break through Raasgiel's hard body? I have no doubt that the attacks are powerful, I just wonder if they're powerful in the right way, being kinetic force/impact. I dunno. And you might be right, Tempest might be the first one down, but whatever role he plays while he's active could have a potentially huge impact on the battle. Also I need to address the reflecting scales: they could reflect any energy attack except the chronolance. Why? Well, think of the scales as a mirror and the chronolance as a super-heated pole and you've got the right idea. Since it's as much solid as energy, the scales wouldn't, couldn't, effect it. However, they could pose a problem to the carrion bursts, unless they burn, in which case they wouldn't do any good there either, as the carrion bursts are mostly heat. Basically, if Death Ghidorah could give Modra trouble with his flames, Raasgiel will have no problem giving her trouble with its flames. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 11 2008, 08:18 PM Post #8 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Wow...talk about...excessive. XD
How...,can energy be solid, if you don't mind me asking? Btw, Modra can reflect fire as well...since fire is energy of course. |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 08:30 PM Post #9 |
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Lord of Overkill
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First of all, fire is not energy. Fire has energy. Energy is an invisible force that drives things. So, no, by that account Modra cannot reflect fire, it could scatter it, but not totally reflect it. Also, Modra is flammable, so why would her powder be an exception? And Modra can't possibly reflect/absorb/redirect everything, it's just not feasible-nor legal. And that's to say nothing of attacking at the same time. Modra may have a potent mind, but reflecting a mass amount of attacks, plus attacking, plus flying at supersonic speeds and avoiding stuff? Yeah, right. As for solid energy: it's solid because it exists along its entire length (technically infinite-get your brain around that one). So, while you wouldn't exactly smack into it like a metal pole, it can't be reflect because everything is "in place", so to speak. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 11 2008, 08:36 PM Post #10 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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It even states in the profile that she can absorb any form of energy. Fire has energy, and she can absorb that energy from the fire. Heat...is also energy, she can absorb heat. And technically she can reflect the energetic aspect of fire. And Modra can't attack and absorb at the same time----I never said that she could. Ok...I think I get the solid energy thing...i think. lol |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 08:43 PM Post #11 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Well, scattering/reflecting/absorbing fire is one thing, but I don't think she could keep up with Raasgiel. Normally, its carrion bursts are as powerful as one of Gamera's fireballs with almost no kinetic impact. But against a mana-user, like Modra, they are three times as powerful with a little less than one plasma fireball's worth of impact. Gamera's fireballs were hella strong; remember Gamera 3? Yeah. Now imagine eight at a time with seeking ability and three times as much heat, which equates to a lot more energy. And Raas can spam them almost endlessly. How is Modra going to keep up? And really, it won't be the carrion bursts that finish her, it will be one of Raasgiel's stronger weapons that hits her as she's dealing with the bursts. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 11 2008, 09:20 PM Post #12 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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I doubt she'd be able to handle all of them. But how would Raasgiel react with his own energy being reflected back? |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 11 2008, 09:40 PM Post #13 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Quite well. It exits off of anti-mana. If anything, using his own attacks against it would heal it, since Modra doesn't have the power to reflect the liquid cannon. |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 12 2008, 01:49 AM Post #14 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Damn...lol oh well...it's a great battle. |
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| Lordofmonsterisland | Aug 12 2008, 10:09 AM Post #15 |
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Kaiju Acolyte
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So, if I understand correctly, the "solid energy" is effectively a forcefield. |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 12 2008, 12:28 PM Post #16 |
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Lord of Overkill
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In Raasgiel's case, that would be solid sound. The solid energy is different, if only a little. Basically, it can technically be called a solid because the energy is not traveling over a course, it exists where it is generated and then stays there. It's not solid like matter, though, not quite. |
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| Mothra Freak | Aug 12 2008, 12:40 PM Post #17 |
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So, kinda like plasma? |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 12 2008, 01:30 PM Post #18 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Like plasma that stays still. That's the catch. The chronolance is like a regular beam weapon in every other way, except that it doesn't travel along a path. |
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| Mothra Freak | Aug 12 2008, 01:59 PM Post #19 |
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Plasma's gonna be tough to beat... better send in the battle droids.
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| EternalMothra | Aug 12 2008, 02:14 PM Post #20 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Lord always tries very hard to at least confuse half of the members with one thing in each of his kaijus' profiles. XD |
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| Lordofmonsterisland | Aug 12 2008, 05:11 PM Post #21 |
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Kaiju Acolyte
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His specialty is in the odd and unthinkable. |
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Frodo: "I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had ever happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you." ____________________________________ The Cake is a lie!! The Pie is a lie!! The Cheesecake is........ THE TRUTH!!!!!intGender=0; | |
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| EternalMothra | Aug 12 2008, 05:52 PM Post #22 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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You mean uber and unthinkable? You weren't here for the FFKT last year. XD |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 12 2008, 06:19 PM Post #23 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Man...don't get me started on last year's FFKT. My kaiju were so nerfed it wasn't even funny... Though uber still works. I mean, I do have a kilometer tall kaiju. |
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| Lordofmonsterisland | Aug 12 2008, 07:06 PM Post #24 |
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Kaiju Acolyte
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OK then, he specializes in the odd, uber, inconcieveable, un-understandable and unthinkable. That take care of it?
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Frodo: "I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had ever happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you." ____________________________________ The Cake is a lie!! The Pie is a lie!! The Cheesecake is........ THE TRUTH!!!!!intGender=0; | |
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| LordNidhogg | Aug 12 2008, 08:17 PM Post #25 |
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Lord of Overkill
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And proud of it! |
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8:21 PM Jul 10