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| 1. Oroborus (Kiryu) vs. Wulfbane (LordNidhogg) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2011, 07:50 AM (674 Views) | |
| EternalMothra | Dec 7 2011, 07:50 AM Post #1 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Battle 1: Oroborus (Kiryu) vs. Wulfbane (LordNidhogg) Arena: Dublin, Ireland (Night) Edited by EternalMothra, Dec 7 2011, 07:50 AM.
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| Kiryu | Dec 7 2011, 12:35 PM Post #2 |
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Ultradmin
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My one question for this before I make my argument is how is Wulfbane's endurance? His profile plays up his strength; but for going against something like Oroborus, who will definitely be staying outside normal melee range, he'll have to jump quite a bit, otherwise rely solely on the tendon, which would give him a huge disadvantage. Nevermind, another question just came up: does Feedback have a speed limitation? If not, I see no problems against Flash Beam; though I would like to know if it would work against Spirit Blast. That being a completely different kind of attack, would it be reflected at all? But if so, it'll hit Oroborus with a measly 37.5% power (roughly). |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 8 2011, 02:58 AM Post #3 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Wulfbane's feedback reflects any non-physical attack, so speed or "spirituality" make no difference. So the flash beam would be reflected as normal. The spirit blast would hit Wulfbane hard, but also hit Oroborus hard. Here's the thing Kiryu: he Wulfbane reflects 3/4ths of the damage he takes. So the spirit blast might only do 37.5% damage to Oroborus if he, say, shot it at himself. But Wulfbane would reflect 75% of the damage he takes, so Oroborus would take 375% damage (let's assume Wulfbane is evil enough for 500% damage). Now, if you can come up with a good reason why that wouldn't happen, I'm all ears. But Wulfbane reflects 3/4ths of the strength of the attack as it hits him. As for Wulfbane's endurance, he has a lot. Not endless, so he would get tired, but he could run for several hundred miles before really tiring out. So the running and jumping wouldn't be a problem. However...Oroborus is way faster. 7 times faster, in fact. So he could probably just stay away from Wulfbane long enough to kill him, even though his attacks would hurt him quite a bit. If Wulfbane could poison Oroborus, I'd say he'd win easily. But he'd have to bridge the gap on a faster, flying opponent and physically sting him. So unless Oroborus decides to stay too close early on, I think he'll win. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 8 2011, 11:17 AM Post #4 |
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Ultradmin
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Okay, I have Spirit Blast all figured out now. It's a fairly intelligent attack; Oroborus essentially fires a bit of his consciousness within the fireball-like thing. It has to make contact and analyze the soul before it does damage. This happens in a fraction of a second, yes; but this makes it so even if it's blasted back from 500% power, it will still recognize Oroborus' soul is good, and do significantly less damage. (I can't make him a sitting duck now. ) With that, I should have Spirit Blast all finalized now. 3 rounds later. So really, the only thing Oroborus has to worry about is the tendon and feedback from Flash Beam and Crystal Freeze Ray. My argument: Oroborus is easily a lot smarter than Wulfbane. He's going to know right away to keep out of melee range, and Wulfbane only has to jump once for him to adjust his hovering elevation. This would make for a very painful day for Wulfbane. The only thing he can use offensively is the tendon, which, if it hits close to Oroborus' tail, is going to take a long while to affect him. So Wulfbane essentially has to rely on getting beat up to even do worthwhile damage to Oroborus via feedback. And if Oroborus decides all-out Spirit Blast, it's going to be a two-shot. And even if Oroborus receives the full feedback (which he can't), the total would be 750%, which is very crippling, but not yet deadly. (You can refer to my response to Zardac on how it would affect Shrake back in round 2. That's where I clarified the power effectiveness. The only thing I didn't clarify was that the damage stacks). In my eyes, Oroborus can finish Wulfbane before Wulfbane's venom has a chance to drive him mad, and well before he takes too much feedback damage. |
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| KaijuCanuck | Dec 8 2011, 07:17 PM Post #5 |
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Game Master: Age of Heroes
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Wait, so I'm confused about the Spirit blast thing.... so it goes to Wulfbane and inflicts like 500% damage... but it gets reflected back carrying 375% damage... but because Oroborus is good, it deals a lot less than that anyways? |
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| redgriffin22 | Dec 8 2011, 07:52 PM Post #6 |
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Kaiju Knight
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After reading both bios, this one is up in the air for me on who would win. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 8 2011, 09:45 PM Post #7 |
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Ultradmin
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Don't worry, I still am too. But basically that's what happens. Even back before the tournament I wanted this to be a very dynamic attack, always changing severity depending on what it hits. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 9 2011, 12:19 AM Post #8 |
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Lord of Overkill
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See, I don't think you understand how Wulfbane's feedback works. He reflects the damage, not the attack itself. Oroborus' s attack might recognize him, but damage is damage. So Oroborus will take 375% of the spirit blast's power in raw damage, not in the spirit blast hitting him. Think of it this way: Wulfbane takes the damage, and then a new attack of the same type (energy, psychic, whatever) but not the same substance (nuclear, fire, etc). It's a neutral attack that just does equivalent damage. Also, the venom would work slowly from his tail to his head relative to if had hit somewhere else. Venom would still travel quickly, unless Oroborus's pulse is just nonexistent, and Oroborus would be affected in just a couple of minutes. So if Wulfbane stung him, I'd argue that he's win. I don't think Oroborus could kill him in that short amount of time, and with how intelligent Oroborus is, the venom would just wreak absolute havoc on him. However, I'm not sure that Wulfbane could actually sting him. Now, I don't think Oroborus can fly backwards that effectively (he'd need to in order to aim while flying), but he's still faster than Wulfbane. Wulfbane could win if he stung Oroborus, but unless Oroborus decides to hover in place for a while, I don't know that I can see that happening. |
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| Zardac the Great | Dec 9 2011, 01:08 AM Post #9 |
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Light Side Sith
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Probably stupid question approaching. Damage is not a thing. Damage is a state. How is a state of being reflected? |
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| Kiryu | Dec 9 2011, 02:16 AM Post #10 |
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Ultradmin
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Zardac raises a very good point. And full damage feedback or not, it's still two Spirit Blasts and Wulfbane is dead. You argue in absolutes, so too shall I then. |
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| Queen Bee | Dec 9 2011, 10:57 PM Post #11 |
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The Queen of all I survey..buzzzzz.....
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I'm leaning towards Oroborus for the win from what I've seen and understood so far but still am up for listening to more. Each kaiju is very unique so I'm sure I may have missed something which could tip the scales either way. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 10 2011, 12:03 AM Post #12 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Let me explain a bit. The physical damage itself is not being reflected, the amount of damage that the attack did is being reflected. What I mean by that is that if Godzilla's beam hit Wulfbane, a beam 75% as strong would be reflected back at Godzilla. But the beam has no properties, it's a neutral attack. Wulfbane's feedback works by hitting the target with an attack 75% as strong as what they hit him with. The only way Wulfbane's attack changes is if the type of attack used against him changes. A psychic attack gets a psychic response, an energy attack gets a physical one. But the retaliatory strike has no properties of the attack that caused it. If a radiation beam him Wulfbane, a beam with 75% of the original beams power would be sent out, but it would not be radioactive. I'm still not making much sense, am I? Ok, think of it in HP. If an attack did 100 damage, then Wulfbane's retaliation would do 75. It doesn't matter what the attack was (so long as it wasn't physical, like a bullet or a punch etc) it would just deal damage. Wulfbane just hits them with an attack whose strength is calculated by the strength of the attack that caused the response. How does Wulfbane do this? I dunno...a wizard did it. While I think that's a bit much, considering Wulfbane is quite strong, it's probably not too far off. Wulfbane is quite evil, and not terribly durable for his size. Which is why I think that unless he manages to sting Oroborus, which would take something of a miracle (Oroborus having a BSOD or such), Wulfbane would lose. Edited by LordNidhogg, Dec 10 2011, 12:04 AM.
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| Kiryu | Dec 11 2011, 06:35 PM Post #13 |
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Ultradmin
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First off, idiot question: what is a BSOD? I can't think of anything. The two Spirit Blasts might be a bit much as you say, but intensity is also measured by how strong the soul is, as I stated earlier. The more evil and weaker the soul, the more its damage is magnified. I'm not sure where to gauge Wulfbane on the imaginary scale, but he will be taking some pretty hard hits. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 11 2011, 10:57 PM Post #14 |
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Lord of Overkill
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BSOD=Blue screen of death. In pop-culture-y terms, having a BSOD means your brain stops working; it can be due to trauma, surprise, plot convenience, etc. I was just stating that unless Oroborus just shut down and stopped trying, he should win. Because, yeah, he flies and his attacks hurt evil things more. Wulfbane is nothing if not evil. |
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| EternalMothra | Dec 12 2011, 12:58 PM Post #15 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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I think both of you have put too many percentages and fractions in your kaiju's profiles. ![]() But anyway. Both of your arguments have been pretty good, though I still think I'm siding with Oroborus. My reasoning is because of the offensive ability he has. This could really be compared to the Mothra Virgo/Komodogater fight. Oroborus will likely maintain his distance just blast away--true the feed back is going to cause some damage but it won't be enough to destroy Oroborus before he manages to defeat Komodogater. If that makes sense. XD I'm still up to more interpretation from you guys.
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| Kiryu | Dec 12 2011, 03:53 PM Post #16 |
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Ultradmin
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Nonsense! That, and Oroborus is fighting Wulfbane, not Komodogater. @Nid: Never heard of that used in pop culture, interesting. But, I think it's highly unlikely. His brain has been functioning well for hundreds of millions of years, I don't think it would just up and stop working because of a little poison.
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 12 2011, 04:23 PM Post #17 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Umm...I've been arguing that Oroborus would win. So, um, yeah. People really shouldn't vote for Wulfbane unless Kiryu says that he has narcolepsy or something. Otherwise, Wulfbane just won't (and shouldn't) win. |
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| Metatora | Dec 12 2011, 07:59 PM Post #18 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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Question, is the flash beam heat based? Because if so, then the feedback from it would only do about 37.5% damage, due to Oroborus having a high tolerance to heat attacks. Add that with his higher speed, he could just spam Wulfbane with it until he drops. But I'd like to hear more from Kiryu. Also, while Wufbane's feedback ability is potent, it wouldn't stop the Crystal Freeze Ray, because it "harnesses the cold of space" which implies it deals physical damage. Though how effective it would be, I don't know. Wulfbane doesn't seem to mind the cold, but space is a different caliber of freezing than ice is. So while I'm leaning towards Oroborus at the moment, but I'd like Kiryu to explain more about the Flash Beam. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 12 2011, 08:17 PM Post #19 |
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Ultradmin
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Flash Beam is pure energy; it has some heat in it, but for the most part it's just a little bit of anything. I say there's some heat because it is explosive. But the resistance is a great point; Oroborus would by default take half the damage from the heat portion of Flash Beam (which again isn't much) when Wulfbane feeds back. I wouldn't rely on spamming it at the moment, since I'd like to hear Nid's thoughts on what Metatora brought up with Crystal Freeze Ray. |
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| Queen Bee | Dec 12 2011, 11:52 PM Post #20 |
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The Queen of all I survey..buzzzzz.....
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Well you never know...the vote is only part of the process...once the 'battles' are calculated it could be a come from behind win.... we'll just have to wait and see.. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 13 2011, 12:18 AM Post #21 |
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Lord of Overkill
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You know...I hope that doesn't happen. Wulfbane should have lost his last two battles, especially the one against Druk Yul. I'm almost to the point of not wanting him in the tourney anymore because he keeps getting lucky against foes he shouldn't be beating. Ah well. Luck is a strange mistress. Cold is an interesting thing. If energy is absorbed, cold is actually more dangerous, as was pointed out in the Modra-Oroborus battle. However, I think Wulfbane's feedback would still work. It would just work very...weirdly. Wulfbane would take damage from the cold and then damage Oroborus in a non-temperature based way. Because as I said before, Wulfbane doesn't launch the attack back at his enemy, he just hits them with an attack that does equivalent damage (or a fraction of it, anyways). Still, Wulfbane cannot win on feedback alone. So unless he gets damn lucky with a sting strike, he'll lose. It might take a while, since he'll be movie a *lot*, but he will eventually get hit enough that he'll die. So, there's my opinion. Edited by LordNidhogg, Dec 13 2011, 12:24 AM.
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| Queen Bee | Dec 24 2011, 12:04 AM Post #22 |
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The Queen of all I survey..buzzzzz.....
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I really like Wulfbane but unfortunately I think Oroborus will take this one, here anyway. As for the battle, it's anyone's guess. |
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) With that, I should have Spirit Blast all finalized now. 3 rounds later.





3:29 PM Jul 11