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| 2. Riott (LordNidHogg) vs. Mortis (Metatora) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2011, 07:53 AM (1,225 Views) | |
| EternalMothra | Dec 7 2011, 07:53 AM Post #1 |
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The Mothic Administrator
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Battle 2: Riott (LordNidHogg) vs. Mortis (Metatora) Arena: Mount St. Helens, Washington; USA (Day) |
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| Metatora | Dec 7 2011, 11:55 AM Post #2 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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I'll be honest, I was hoping this fight would happen. But before I make any arguments, I'd like LordNidHogg to clear some things up for me. 1: How does Riott copy his opponent's strength? Does he simply look at them and guess, or does he have to make actual contact? 2: On the same note, Mortis is a little over twice the size (including mass) of Riott, so would he be able to copy all of his strength? As that is quite the gap to close. 3: What is Riott's fighting style? I didn't see it in his profile. And 4: Could Riott absorb Mortis' sonic attacks? They're not like regular energy (fire, plasma, etc) so I'm not sure if he could. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 8 2011, 02:46 AM Post #3 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Think of it as a psychic connection thing. Riott empathically copies the strength of whoever he's fighting. So, while it's a tad more complicated, the just looking at him thing is fairly accurate. Size doesn't matter. Riott has an upper limit of strength that he can absorb...but Mortis would have to be stronger than Superman for that to come into play, and I really doubt Mortis juggles planets and punches out stars. So, yes, Riott adds every last ounce of Mortis's strength to his own. Mortis's size and strength just makes Riott deadlier. Riott's fighting style is...pragmatic. He doesn't have a set style per se. He analyzes the situation and does his best to end conflicts as fast as possible. While he isn't evil, as I mentioned in the battle against Arana, he is ruthlessly pragmatic in fighting. He doesn't fight to wound or for a "fair and honorable" battle: he fights to kill as soon as possible. For ranged opponents, he tends to close the distance as fast as possible, dodging what he can and absorbing or enduring the rest. In all fights, he closes the distance and stabs and slashes at things to disable and kill, like eyes and limbs. If possible, he'll probably just try to remove Mortis's head. It's easier that way. Hmm...technically I think so. He can absorb energy, and sound is just energy moving through a medium. However, since it is kinetic energy as opposed to heat, light, or radiation...I'll say no. Riott can't absorb the energy of someone punching him (through his tendrils as food, I mean), and a sound wave is more like someone punching him than someone breathing fire at him. So, unless you disagree with my assessment of sound energy, I would say Riott can't absorb it. Hopefully that helps. My initial impression is that Riott takes this. Mortis has some good weapons, but Riott is built to withstand physical attacks better than anything else. Sound is just a variant of a physical attack. Yes it will hurt him, but since he has very good armor, I think he can get in close. Now, Mortis's size is both an advantage and disadvantage. It's an advantage because he's hard to damage, has thick skin/armor, and is very strong. Unfortunately for him, his impressive strength is added directly to Riott's. That makes Riott both physically stronger by a fairly significant amount, and more than twice as fast. That means that he's going to be flying circles around Mortis stabbing him with blades that are going to go through him like butter (not just him, pretty much everything...they're hotter than the surface of the sun, mono-molecular sharp, and vibrate at speeds measured in fractions of light speed as opposed to mach something or other). His sonic vibration would only matter if he got a hold of Riott, since Riott isn't going to grapple him unless it's a necessity; he's going to be stabbing and slashing at limbs and critical organs. And since his blades already vibrate far, far faster than Mortis can, the blades wouldn't be harmed at all. In fact, Mortis's vibration is just going to make the cuts larger since he's moving his body around the blades stabbing into him. Now, I can see an argument about the massive concussive impact of Mortis's sound attacks keeping Riott away, giving Mortis the advantage. I don't see that happening. Riott, flying at mach 7, will have a frikking ton of momentum. Mortis's sound attacks are explosive, yes, but the amount of force the sound produces is unlikely to stop Riott dead. Deflect a bit, yes, but not stop him moving forward. Now, if Mortis and Riott flew at each other, Mortis would have more momentum due to his greater mass. But Riott isn't stupid; if Mortis flies right at him, he'll use his superior speed and agility to deliver fast blows to sensitive areas. Mortis seems like more of a brawler in melee, Riott is a bit more a super-strong ninja: just look at how flexible his body is. He moves around to stab and slash, using his strength to make it deal more damage. It's true that in, say, and arm wrestling contest Riott would win, but he won't grapple something twice his size even if he's stronger. Mostly because he wants to end the fight fast; cutting off your opponents arms or head is a lot more effective than punching and grappling them. He'll probably immediately go for Mortis's wings, then either his arms or head. I'm not saying the fight is one-sided, mind. This is a tough one because Mortis is strong at any distance. But Riott has the mettle to make the fight a brawl, and at that point he can win given time. Mortis's sonic barrier will be a problem, but Riott's strength and speed should allow him to (possibly literally) punch through it. Right now, I'm comfortably confident in Riott taking this. However, I want to see what Metatora thinks; he's good at coming up with ways of describing how devastating his kaijus' attacks are, and I'll be interested to hear what Mortis can do against Riott. Also: Me too I was kind of psyched when this one came up. Sometimes drawing comes up lucky (and no I didn't set this up on purpose, so don't ask).
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| Metatora | Dec 8 2011, 09:46 AM Post #4 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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Thanks for the info, so now, it's my turn Riott is faster, yes, but that's not going to help him, why you ask? Because at mach 7 all he can do is beeline Mortis, which is a REALLY bad idea. Because you never want to give him a free shot like that. And even if Riott dodges a sonic attack, his momentum is still going to carry his right past Mortis, giving him a 2nd shot. So I think that Riott's higher speed is not going to give him the edge. Plus, Mortis' sonic attacks are just as fast (and one faster) than Riott, so he's going to be able to hit him regardless. I don't see the tendrils as being all that effective, because one, he'd have to be close to Mortis to use them, which puts him in directly in harms way and two, Mortis's shield would push them away and the sonic shake would break them if they were touching him. So Mortis just took away Riott's only real ranged ability. And yes, while the tendrils do vibrate fast, the sonic shake was designed to break a kaiju's bones, so unless the tendrils are incredibly durable, the sonic shake is going to break them, which would leave Riott only with melee. Also, while Riott isn't an idiot, Mortis is a master of the battlefield. And He's smart enough to realize that he probably shouldn't let the monkey looking kaiju with the weird looking armor get too close to him. And with that strategy, Riott would have to come to Mortis, which plays into his favor, as Riott has no way of attacking at long range, while Mortis can simply sit back and throw sonic beams at him. And I just thought of something else. Would Riott's extensive nervous system make him more vulnerable to Mortis' sonic scream and sonic bullets? He's is organic, right? Because Mortis could knock him of balance with either of those attacks and then slam him with a Hypersonic cannon. And Mortis, while a bit of a brute, is not an all out brawler. He's knows to avoid wasting energy if he can help it, so he's a lot like Riott in his pragmatic approach to fighting. So overall, I think Mortis is going to take this 2/3 times. Because while Riott is stronger and faster, he has no range game, and attacking Mortis up close is always a huge risk. Also, Mortis is smarter and more experienced, so that's a plus to his side. And add in the fact that Mortis is going to be able to sit back and let Riott come to him, meaning that Riott is going to burn energy just trying to get to Mortis, all while being shot at. And unless the semi-dormant volcano goes off (or Riott starts digging) Riott has no energy to heal himself, so any and all damage he takes is going to stay for the duration of the fight. I'll post more later, but I have a school project to finish
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| Kiryu | Dec 8 2011, 10:59 AM Post #5 |
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Ultradmin
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I'm in agreement with Metatora here. If Riott does fly close to Mortis, he'll just hit him with a sonic scream or bullet. Yes, Riott will probably get a nasty hit in if he's able to touch him, but with a battlefield complementing his abilities, Mortis is going to be very tough for Riott to beat. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 8 2011, 11:54 PM Post #6 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Hoo boy. Well, let's get started:...Umm...why? If you're saying that his speed would prevent him from maneuverability, the answer is that no it wouldn't. He has jets not just on his back, but also on all of his limbs. Turning on a dime isn't exactly possible at mach 7, but he does not have to just fly straight into Mortis. And he could move enough to dodge a lot of Mortis' attacks, too. It would take exactly one missed attack for Riott to be on top of Mortis. Plus, Riott can always just rip up chunks of the ground and throw them at Mortis. He might not do much damage, but they'd be more like distractions. And hundreds of thousands of tons of earth is a worthy distraction for pretty much anyone. Does no one read what I post? I spent a huge amount of time in both of Riott's previous battles describing what Riott's tendrils do. They are not a ranged weapon, they were never meant to be. They're more like blades that can be sculpted at will, and are flexible when not in use. How would Mortis's shield push them away? You're telling me his shield can stop someone with his own strength plus some from punching through it? How? When the blades are energized, they're as hard as any kaiju's bones, so they won't get pushed back like Biollante's vines. They also *vibrate at relativistic speeds*. Whatever vibration your shield is pushing at them will be canceled out by the far, far faster blade vibration. And as for being broken by his sonic shake, I preemptively covered that. His blades are incredibly durable when energized, about as hard as Gigan's metal blades. But they won't break because they can't be broken. Let me explain before anyone cries foul: they are able to harden because they're made up of the same liquid crystal that his armor is. So if, by some miracle, Mortis' shake broke them, Riott would power them down and the next time he powered them up, they'd be fine. Think of ice breaking, melting, and refreezing. And I'll address the sonic shake thing again: it will not break Riott's blades because they're already vibrating. Vibration breaks things in one of two ways: knocking them into something else, or forcing extant weaknesses to manifest strongly. The weaknesses thing is possible, but unlikely given the way that they're put together. The knocking into things is literally impossible. The only thing for Riott's blades to hit would be Mortis's bones, which he'd just cut through. Plus, as I said, they're already shaking far more energetically than Mortis's ability can muster. They can't break it through resonant frequency, because the frequency is either too high, or it would be canceled out by the opposing vibration. Mortis's sonic shake might lower the number of vibrations of Riott's blades, but since they're vibrating at several thousand times mach 1, that won't be much of an issue. So, for now, don't think of the tendrils as tendrils. Think of them as blades that vibrate and as hot as lightning. So Mortis is basically betting everything that he can keep Riott away from him? That's asking a lot. Riott is fast, agile, smart enough to know when to take advantage of openings, and very durable. Plus, as I also said in my previous post, Riott is built to take on all comers, but especially melee. He is built to absorb impact. Sound is impact minus the fist. So Mortis is throwing punches at range. It will hurt Riott, but not by much. His armor is several layers of a liquid-to-solid crystal encased in a nigh-indestructible elastic shell. The combination can dampen any impact, sound included. Mortis's attacks will not do that much to Riott in terms of physical damage. At least not much compared to how they'd normally do. Imagine how the sound would work on Godzilla, and then imagine 75% of that being lost to armor. Riott's about there. Which leads me to: Knock him off balance physically, yes. But Riott is an alien. His nervous system is different than terrestrial ones. Now, I'm not going to try to cop out and say that because he's alien he's immune. But it would work on him a bit differently. Another thing you have to realize is that Riott is an interstellar traveler. He eats reentry for breakfast. His nervous system isn't adversely damaged by that, and I doubt Mortis's attacks would be too much worse. Riott might get a bit dazed, but not to the point of making it an easy win for Mortis, more like a small reprieve after a powerful attack. Yeah, but he's pragmatic in a conservative fighting kind of way. Riott is conservative in a "as soon as I'm in striking range I'm taking your head off" kind of way. And I'd like to quote this from his personality description: He may be level headed if a bit brash, but he's out to prove his balls to the universe. That means he wants to test himself on strong opponents. Riott, being half his size, would immediately look the weaker foe. Mortis has absolutely no way of knowing that Riott is going to be stronger than he is. So your example of Mortis sitting there thinking is probably wrong. Rather, Mortis will think "What's this pipsqueak doing here? I'm going to go stomp him into muck." Mortis would then proceed to die very fast as Riott sends him reeling and then de-limb him. Again, Mortis will have no way of knowing that Riott is stronger than him, and that initial reaction could end the fight in a heartbeat. I'm not saying Mortis is an idiot, and I believe that he's a powerful and smart fighter, but he's a bit cocky and he wants to prove himself. That's not a good combination for a foe that takes (copies, rather) some of your power and makes themselves stronger. Riott has nearly limitless energy; he has a nuclear heart like Godzilla. Also, Riott can easily create energy to absorb: torch the forest. His blades are super, super, super hot and will ignite trees pretty easily. Riott just has to absorb the following flames. Also, Riott can hurt Mortis with more than his blades and punches: he has jets. He can pretty much burn the flesh off Mortis's body when he gets close enough. Here's what I see in your argument: Mortis wins because he keeps Riott at range and his shield protects him from Riott's hits. Well, my argument in a nutshell is that Mortis loses because he is taken off guard by something half his size proving significantly stronger, his sound attacks will be largely ineffective against Riott, and he has no regenerative powers to heal the limbs Riott is going to take from him. Mortis's shield is by no means impenetrable, and if anyone can breach it, Riott can. Riott has 15 meter blades that vibrate fast enough to shatter diamonds, are sharp enough to cut into most anyone's flesh without assistance, and very hot (I mentioned earlier as hot as lightning, which reaches 30,000 C...so take that for what you will). Mortis is tough, but Riott is built to endure. Edited by LordNidhogg, Dec 8 2011, 11:59 PM.
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| Kiryu | Dec 9 2011, 02:38 AM Post #7 |
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Ultradmin
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Censored and all that good stuff. Point of my post is you argue for Riott like he's god and can't be touched. Please, by all means, prove my suspicion wrong if you can, but all tournament in the debate portions, he's taken zero damage. Edited by Kiryu, Dec 9 2011, 12:32 PM.
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| Metatora | Dec 9 2011, 11:40 AM Post #8 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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@LordNidhogg: I have a few issues with your arguments. 1: The tendrils are not an issue for Mortis because even if they are vibrating, his sonic shake ability is more than powerful enough to break anything that's in physical contact with him, and I'm pretty sure that kaiju's bones>tendrils, I just don't see them as a major threat. Plus, the tendrils are not all that strong, Riott is, so saying that Mortis can't break them is simply wrong. Also, the sonic shake would also hurt Riott himself because the tendrils are attached to him, so again, melee with Mortis=bad idea. 2: I like how you only read a part of Mortis' fighting style, here's the part you missed:
So yeah, the second he sees Riott start to charge him, Mortis is going to figure out that he should keep him at range, because it's simply a smarter move on his part. Why waste energy when you can simply let your opponent come to you? And though he does get a bit cocky at times, Mortis isn't one to underestimate his opponents, so hoping he gets caught off guard is a long shot 3: Mortis has the advantage because Riott HAS to come to him to win, while Mortis can simply hang back and shoot him up, and if you think that Riott's speed is going to save him, then I kindly remind you that Mortis has his sonic bullets, which are much faster that Riott is, and are fully capable of causing damage and putting Riott of balance. 4: Alien or not, Riott is still an organic, so unless he has a specific immunity to sonic attacks, all of Mortis' attacks are still going to be fully effective, so it's a moot point. It won't be a instant KO or anything, but it WILL give Mortis an opening every time he hands a hit with either his sonic scream or sonic bullets. 5: Sure, Riott can set the forest on fire, but he might leave himself open while absorbing the energy, just saying. So overall, I just don't see how Riott can win with no range game. He has no way to get close to Mortis without getting shot up. His speed is a non-factor because at top speed, all he can do is fly in a (more or less) straight line, which doesn't really help him. Plus, Mortis is the smarter of the two, putting Riott at a even bigger disadvantage. Sure, Riott is durable as hell, and I'm not saying that Mortis is going to wipe the floor with him or anything, but at the end of the day, I see Mortis standing victorious. |
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| redgriffin22 | Dec 9 2011, 06:43 PM Post #9 |
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Kaiju Knight
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This is going to be a tough match and right now, so right now tie for me. Though this is a good match that I have to say. |
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| Mothra Freak | Dec 9 2011, 09:13 PM Post #10 |
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YOUR WISH HAS BEEN GRANTED
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Yeah, as strong as Riott is, I don't really think strength will help him too much, since sound does travel in concentric waves, and being that Riott utilizes crystals in his defenses, I think that will make Mortis' attacks just that much more effective. Not to mention the Hypersonic Cannon travels just as fast as Riott. So for now, I'm going to say that Mortis will win, though it won't be a swift, flawless victory. |
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| Queen Bee | Dec 9 2011, 10:42 PM Post #11 |
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The Queen of all I survey..buzzzzz.....
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I am leaning towards Mortis for now, but do see a lot of attributes in Riott which could be advantageous in a battle. I'll see how further debates come out before I make a final decision. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 9 2011, 11:52 PM Post #12 |
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Lord of Overkill
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First let me say that I do apologize if my last post was a bit too "final" sounding. I'm not trying to powerplay or anything, I just get a bit fired up talking about my kaiju. So if I came off as unfair, I do apologize.
Ok, well, I'm still not convinced the sonic shake would break the tendrils. In terms of their breaking strength, yes I think it could. But they're already vibrating super fast, why would outside vibration break them? The molecules are already vibrating at incredible speed, so I don't see why shaking them more would break them. Also, when they harden they're as hard as his armor when it is hardened. Since his armor is supposed to be protective against attacks, I would say that when hardened tendrils=kaiju bones. Even if they did break, because their natural state is a liquid, it wouldn't be that critical and the stabbing damage would still be done. Honestly, I'm a lot more willing to buy that stabbing Mortis while he was shaking would break Riott's forearm than his tendrils. Although if Riott was slashing as opposed to stabbing, I think that would make a big difference.
I did read all of Mortis's profile. I just quoted his personality section because it supported my argument. And I don't think his fighting style section completely negates it. According to that same section, Mortis will attack from a distance before deciding what to do next. At that point, he won't have seen anything of what Riott can do because Riott hasn't hit him yet. So he'll see a small kaiju with no hint that he's much stronger than he looks, who has been weakened by sonic blasts. Why wouldn't he go in to try out in melee? I mean, yes he's cautious, but he seems more interested in fighting than winning per say. I think that because of that, he will initiate melee combat at some point. Now, if and when he survives the first melee clash, he'll definitely stay at range for the rest of the fight. But he'll be injured in the process of learning.
As for Mortis's attacks disorienting Riott, I think they will. I just don't think that they will do anything that dramatic. In your descriptions the scream causes pain, the cannon is just raw power, and the bullets cause brief disorientation. It's true that a small opening is enough to take advantage of, but I don't think it gives Mortis that big of an edge. As for being fully effective, I guess it depends on what you mean. By virtue of having armor, Riott will take less damage than say, Godzilla. If you mean that they'll stun him, I'd say it would still be a bit less effective on Riott than Godzilla, since Riott does do planetary reentry and all that, but they'd still have a noticeable effect.
Riott's regeneration will make him a bit vulnerable, yes, but he'll also be healing during that time. Mortis would have to hit him hard during that opening to overcome the healing being done. Mortis can probably keep Riott from healing effectively, but even just a bit here and there would help him stay in the fight. and
Yes, your bullets travel faster than he does and the cannon travels as fast. But that doesn't matter too much since Riott will be flying towards Mortis, not trying to outrun his attacks. But things like planes dodge bullets that are moving faster than they are all the time. Raw speed doesn't make everything work, agility counts too. And Riott is a very agile flier. He has jets on all of his limbs that can be used to steer and change direction quickly. And before you say that his momentum would keep him from being at all agile, I will remind you that you're the one with sound weapons going faster than the speed of sound. So Riott might not be a hummingbird, but he's not a missile either. And it only takes one missed bullet or scream to give Riott the chance to reach Mortis. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is (according to the laws of kaiju) possible.
Why is Mortis smarter than Riott? He's a more experienced combatant, certainly, but smarter? There's nothing in his profile about him being particularly smart, and going by the charts (for lack of worded evidence) he and Riott have roughly the same intelligence. His experience will definitely help him, but Riott isn't an idiot. Maybe so, but the crystals in his armor aren't exactly normal (they're liquid that can turn solid when energized, for one thing). Also, they're covered in a flexible, rubbery skin that would serve to reduce the resonance of sound greatly. Rubber, as with all flexible things, withstands vibration very well by absorbing it. Riott will still get hurt with every attack, of course, but his armor will soften the blow. Honestly, I can see Mortis taking this. However, I see Riott as having just as good of a chance, if not a little better. Riott can do a few things to get close to Mortis: the standard flying method, the throwing things at him method, or the waiting for Mortis to come to him method (the least likely, but still possible). I think that if Riott gets close, he can probably win. Getting close is the problem, and Mortis does have a ranged advantage. But as I said before, Riott is built to endure. Mortis will hurt him, probably significantly, but I don't know if he can put Riott down before Riott reaches him. |
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 01:19 AM Post #13 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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But that's the just the thing, in order for Riott to have a chance of winning, he has to put himself directly in harms way. Mortis on the other hand, has the option of simply letting Riott come to him, because he knows that it's smarter to let your foe come to you. And on the tendrils, if they're liquid, then wouldn't that make them easier to destroy? And even if they are as hard as Riott's armor, they're not as thick, meaning it'd be that much easier to shatter them. And while you're right about Mortis wanting to prove himself, he also has no qualms of winning a fight by means other than brute force. If Riott keeps charging at him, then why put himself at risk by rushing in himself? Because to Mortis, you don't become the strongest thing in the universe by playing fair, you do it by winning. Plus, using his sonic attacks to keep Riott at bay just makes more sense as a tactical choice, because the battle would be on Mortis' terms as long as Riott couldn't get through the sonic barrage. Which brings me to my next point, how can Riott get to Mortis without taking serious damage? His only attack option is to rush straight in, which plays right into Mortis' favor. Yes, his armor is strong, but it's not unbreakable. Also, Mortis could just use his sonic scream or bullets if Riott did get too close, which would give him a free shot while he was dazed. Or he could simply use the few free moments to get further away and wait for Riott to charge at him again. Also, Mortis is arguably the 2nd most powerful kaiju in the FFKT in terms of raw physical power due to his size, so it's not like Riott is going to be able to put him down easy if the two were to start treading punches. Mortis' sonic abilities are also very potent at close range, so he could very well win a melee brawl even if Riott is stronger then he is. That's not to say that Mortis would win every melee encounter, but he does have the tools to pull it off. So I still think that Mortis still takes this, because he has more options than Riott does. He can sit back and shoot Riott up while staying well outside Riott's effective range. And if it did come down to the two trading punches, Mortis could still use his sonic abilities to put Riott of balance, which would let him get a point blank shot with the Hypersonic cannon, or he could simply spam his sonic scream, which would keep Riott from off balance quite a bit. if I forgot to address anything, it's because I'm tired and about to go to bed, so I apologize in advance.
Think nothing of it, we just want our kaiju to win is all, nothing wrong with a little competition
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 10 2011, 02:31 AM Post #14 |
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Lord of Overkill
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I just want to know why Riott's only option is to rush straight in. I mean, yes, I see your point: Riott has to get to Mortis to hurt him. But that doesn't mean simply bum-rushing him. Riott will learn real quick that flying straight at Mortis is risky. Which is when he starts throwing 100k tons of earth at him. It's not too unreasonable to see Riott throwing chunks of Mt. St. Helens Mortis. They may not do too much, especially if Mortis shoot them, but they will give Riott an opening, just like Mortis can create openings by stunning Riott. So here's a scenario: Riott throws a massive chunk of rock at Mortis, who shatters it creating a cloud of dust. Riott could easily flank him by flying to the side. Mortis might be flying backwards sometimes, but from the sound of it, he's going to be mostly still trying to hit Riott at range. That gives Riott an advantage because he's moving all around and Mortis is just standing there trying to hit him. And I'll try to explain the tendrils a bit better (again) Like his armor, the tendrils are a flexible skin "sleeve" around an organic liquid crystal substance. When energize by Riott through his nervous system, the crystal can harden into whatever shape Riott desires. While in this state, the crystal is comparable to Gigan's claws, Anguirus shell, Godzilla bones etc in terms of hardness. If shattered, the hardened crystal would be broken inside its skin sleeve. Riott would then de-energize it, reverting it to liquid, and then harden it again so that it was just like new. Hope that clears things up. Mortis is definitely top-tier in terms of melee ability, and his sonic abilities will help. But Riott is built for melee battle. His armor can become spiky and hard at will, or stay liquid to absorb impact. He's flexible, fast, agile, and always stronger than whoever he's fighting. Add to that two burning swords of cutting doom, and you have something fierce. Mortis would be tough to put down, but he wouldn't be tough to weaken. He has crytal spikes that help his sonics, he has arms and legs, and wings. Riott's blades are about as long as any of those are thick, and he won't hesitate to remove them. Mortis's options become a lot more limited if he can't fly, or only has one arm. Plus Riott can use his jets as melee weapons to burn Mortis or disrupt his sonics; since they're pressure waves, the pressure from Riott's jets would drastically weaken them. Though using that method would limit Riott's mobility somewhat. I'm not saying every melee encounter would end with Riott on top; Mortis's sonics could work pretty well. But it just seems like Mortis's entire strategy focuses on keeping Riott away. If he could do that, I'd say Mortis would win. But I haven't been convinced that he could keep Riott off of him. Riott is fast, agile, and pretty intelligent; he also has the combination of weapons and abilities to end the fight quickly should he get in range. Right now, I say Mortis wins if he can keep Riott away for the duration. But if Riott gets in, which I think he would be able to (albeit damaged), I'd bet on Riott in a melee fight 8/10 times. Thanks. I kind of walk the line between passionate and obstinate to encourage debate. Nothing gets me fired up like talking about a good kaiju brawl
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 11:42 AM Post #15 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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Again, the only way for Riott to get close enough to hurt Mortis would be to come straight in, as Mortis is simply too smart to not let Riott out of his sight. And even if Riott tried throwing large chunks of earth at Mortis, what's to stop Mortis from simply sidestepping the rocks, or taking to the sky? So I don't think the rock throwing is going to do Riott any good as a possible distraction. Plus, he could also throw a large chunk of earth right back at Riott, slowing any advance he makes. And on the tendrils...since they can be reformed like that, then I still think Mortis would have no problem breaking and/or deflecting them. As for melee, I do think my previous point stands. If the two were that close, Mortis could simply hit Riott at point blank with his sonic scream, which would put Riott of balance long enough for Mortis to either get in a free shot to the face with his Hypersonic cannon, or he could just twist Riotts head off. Or he could shoot him with his sonic bullets, break his bones with the sonic shake etc. And I don't think that the pressure from Riott's jets would slow down Mortis' sonic attacks because the sonic waves are insanely intense, so I don't think the jets are going to stop Mortis' sonic abilities. To me, it breaks down to Mortis simply having more options both at range and close up. While Riott is stronger, that is almost a non-factor because Mortis can simply put him off balance just long enough to either get into better position or to slam him at full force while Riott's defense is down. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 10 2011, 12:04 PM Post #16 |
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Ultradmin
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To be honest, I can't see Riott throwing hundreds of tons of volcano chunks at Mortis and it NOT erupting after that much stress; in which case, this fight just got worse for both of them. As for the fight itself, one question: If Riott decides to fly around and attack from behind or the side, how quickly will Mortis' reaction time be? Yes, Riott will be moving at mach 7, but Mortis being a master of sound basically, will he be able to follow him, thwarting his plan? |
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 12:27 PM Post #17 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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And could he even throw that much? While I'm sure he can lift that much with no issues, but the earth itself wouldn't hold together in big enough chunks to hurt either kaiju. And Mortis' reaction time should be more than enough to shoot Riott up. And besides, Riott's jets aren't going to be hard to track, so the odds of Mortis not being able to keep tabs on Riott are quite low. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 10 2011, 01:45 PM Post #18 |
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Lord of Overkill
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That's assuming Riott attacks from the front and allows Mortis to hit him. Riott isn't stupid: attack the beam-spammer from the front is a bad idea. Given how big Mortis is, Riott could pretty easily get to the side. And the sonic shake would really only matter if Riott grabbed Mortis or vice-versa. If Riott was stabbing it might break his tendrils, which he'd reform fast enough to stab him again in seconds. If Riott was slashing, say trying to remove Mortis's wings, then I don't think it would matter at all. And should Riott remove one of Mortis's wings, the battle is going to be very heavily in Riott's favor; Mortis will be unable to keep distance, and Riott can just dart in and out and peck him to death. Not a glorious strategy, but Riott does what he can to win always. As for the chunks of earth, whether or not they stay in big enough chunks to hurt Mortis was never really part of the question; his sonic shield would pretty much make that a non-issue. But they would buy Riott time to close the distance. Even if Mortis sidestepped or took to the sky, it would be time Mortis was not attacking Riott, giving him time to close the distance. It might only work the first time, before Mortis gets wise to it, but one time is enough for Mortis to lose a limb or something similar. Also, just a point, taking to the sky would be suicide. Riott is faster and more agile, and Mortis can't aim his beams in all directions. Riott would fly circles around him and kill him. If the volcano erupted, that would make Riott's day. He'd have fire and lightning to regenerate, an ash cloud to hide in, and Mortis would be less likely to stay low to the ground, playing into Riott's advantage in flight. Also, I must agree with you: Mortis has more options. But none of those options work as well as Riott's. They're easier to implement, sure, but in a melee struggle, even with Mortis's beams, there's a good chance that any of Riott's blows will end the fight. If Riott stabs him in the chest or throat it's pretty much over. Whether or not his tendrils break won't even matter: the heat they generate alone would cook Mortis's organs. And every one of Riott's strikes will be to kill, so Mortis would have to survive that. Just another point: the sonic waves are intense, yes, but why wouldn't the jest inhibit them? They're putting out enough pressure to accelerate a 60,000 ton kaiju. That's pretty intense too. Basically, you seem to be limiting Riott to flying straight in and atacking from the front, which would give Mortis a real advantage. But Riott knows not to attack a beam-spewing kaiju directly, he'll go to the side. And thinking Mortis can endlessly keep track of him, let alone hit him with every attack, seems unlikely. Besides, Riott could do flying sweeps or a flying tackle. Mortis stopping two blades hitting him a mach 7 seems...unlikely. And I've already argued that Mortis's sound attack probably wouldn't stop Riott from moving forward, with the possible exception of the bullets that would disorient him somewhat. Mortis has more options, but I still think Riott is more lethal. Because of Riott's strength and durability, plus a dash of Mortis's attitude, I think Riott can survive long enough to deal the finishing blow. |
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 03:49 PM Post #19 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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Some issues I have with those arguments: 1: You seem to think that Mortis would be standing still while Riott tries to get to him, but he won't. He'd be moving around himself to avoid letting Riott blindside him. And while he's not as fast ad Riott, Mortis isn't exactly a slug, he can move fast when he needs to. 2: Why wouldn't Mortis be able to track Riott? Jets aren't exactly hard to see, and Mortis has the experience and reflexes to keep up with him. 3: Mortis is quite capable of shooting his sonic beams while on the move, so saying that he'd be open if he dodged an attack from Riott is just wishful thinking. So if Riott were to toss a few hundred tons of earth at him, Mortis could simply sidestep the rocks and then blast Riott if he tried to get close. 4: Riott causing heavy damage to Mortis assumes that he got through whatever Mortis threw at him. And in order for Riott to do that, he has to take a few lumps. He's durable, no doubt, but Mortis has the firepower to stop him in his tracks via either the sonic scream or sonic bullets. And since Riott has no choice but to come to Mortis, I still say that he's going to have a hard time getting through the sonic attacks. 5: If Riott did get to Mortis, then I have no doubts that he took a few hits in the process. Also, while Riott is capable of cutting into Mortis, Mortis is just as capable of killing Riott by hitting him with a sonic scream at point blank then twisting his head off while he's dazed. It's really a matter of who hits who first. But since Mortis has several ways to defend himself from whatever Riott hits him with, I see him being able to last long enough to win a melee encounter. If all that sounded like Mortis has an easy time winning, then I apologize because he dosen't, but I'm sticking by my previous assessment that Riott is at a disadvantage for his his lack of a range game and Mortis' own close range effectiveness. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 10 2011, 03:59 PM Post #20 |
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Ultradmin
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I think that's the whole point of a diversion. Now he can be quick about it, yes, but in that second or two that Mortis is watching the...earth chunks, Riott could very well close the gap. But, like you said, the sonic scream would just simply be earsplitting that close, giving Mortis the opportunity to take off Riott's head (or crush him, or do other nasty deadly things for that matter).
The attitude thing; I'm not sure that would work into Riott's favor as he hopes. Mortis is a cocky bastard yes, but if he misses Riott enough, I think that'd just piss him off and blasts would come more frequently, getting harder to stay away from. Just the way I see it. |
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 04:14 PM Post #21 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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But Mortis would be keeping an eye on Riott more than a flying chunk of rock, besides, Mortis could simply dodge it and still not lose track of Riott. And a few hundred tons of rock would just bounce off him anyway. Plus, while Riott was digging up the rock to throw, he'd be wide open for Mortis to shoot him up. And on Mortis' attitude...yes, he's a tad cocky, but he's not brash or hot headed. His main objective is to win, so I don't see him getting annoyed at missing a shot or two. Now Riott on the other hand, is used to always being able to overpower his foes, so how do you think he's going to be react to a opponent who is able to counter his greater strength? I can see Riott getting angry if/when he's not able to get to Mortis, which might make him sloppy. |
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 10 2011, 05:28 PM Post #22 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Here are a couple of problems: you say that the scream and bullets would stop Riott in his tracks. I highly doubt that. The bullets, maybe, as they are explosive and they come with a stunning effect. But the scream just causes pain. I don't see pain alone stopping Riott in his tracks. Problem the second: All of Mortis's ranged attacks have recharge times except the bullets. The scream takes ten seconds to recharge. Ten seconds is more than enough time for Riott to close the gap, whether the scream hit him or no. And because Riott's armor would absorb at least some of the sound's effects, he wouldn't stay stunned for a long time from any of Mortis's attacks. So Mortis, by his own restrictions, can't effectively spam Riott. 10 and 20 second recharge times aren't long, but against something moving than twice your top speed, 10 and 20 second recharge times are dangerous. And you said Mortis would be moving and shooting. Ok, that makes him less likely to hit Riott. He might him easier if he was flying towards him, but flying away from Riott gives him more warning for the attacks, and the added movement makes it harder for Mortis to aim. About the rocks: a few hundred tons of rock and earth might not be much, but Riott is going to be throwing chunks of mountains at Mortis. Tens of thousands of tons of rock will cause Mortis a viable distraction. And if it breaks up, all the better: a huge cloud of rock is harder to "sidestep" and will give Riott more time. About the attitude: Riott has fought beam spammers before. Difficulty in getting to Mortis will not make him sloppy. Riott doesn't really get angry, so that's not much of an issue. And another thing: you still haven't given me any reason to think that Mortis can counter Riott's strength, at least in close quarters. Riott can (literally) punch through the shield, he can weave around Mortis to avoid his blasts, and the sonic shake will not prevent Riott from badly hurting Mortis with pretty much every attack. |
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| Metatora | Dec 10 2011, 06:23 PM Post #23 |
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Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
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The sonic scream at close range would be crippling (even if for a few seconds) to anything that had the misfortune of getting caught in it. So the instant Riott gets hit, he's going to be unable to counter whatever Mortis hits him with next. And the sonic bullets are going to cause Riott to stop as well, and cause damage at the same time. And the recharge time isn't an issue, if Mortis lands a hit, then by the time Riott recovers, then Mortis will either be all over him or ready to fire again. And he can still use the sonic bullets to keep Riott on his toes while his other weapons recharge. It's all a matter of timing, which brings me to my next point.. Mortis has had centuries to perfect his aim and all of his other powers, so shooting while on the move is not going to be an issue for him. All he has to do is lead Riott, then fire. Or, he can wait until Riott gets close enough, then hit him square in the face with any one of his sonic attacks, then proceed to start pounding away. All he needs is a few seconds to twist Riotts head off, and if Riott is dazed, then that's a game ender right there. Mortis can still use his Hypersonic cannon to stop Riott if need be, and I seriously doubt he'd be able to shrug off a direct hit and still keep advancing. Riott is strong, but he's not immune to Mortis' sonic attacks. And while Riott is stronger, Mortis is still strong and durable enough to survive a brawl with him. Just because he's not as strong doesn't mean he'd lose. Plus, Mortis can still push Riott away or break every bone in his body via his sonic shake. Or he can use his other sonic powers to stun Riott for a brief time and hit him with no fear of a counter attack. Plus, even with his greater strength, Riott only has 1/3 the mass that Mortis does, so I can see Mortis throwing Riott away from him if need be. However, while I do still think Mortis has the edge here, if he misses or if Riott gets lucky, he might be in trouble. But still, Mortis just has more ways to win then Riott does. |
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| Kiryu | Dec 10 2011, 07:14 PM Post #24 |
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Ultradmin
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While it's true Sonic Scream doesn't have the explosive force the bullets have, high frequencies are still very crippling. All armor aside, that's going to mess with Riott's head enough for Mortis to do some serious damage. (This is based off personal experience; high frequencies are incredibly distracting, and they hurt in a ripping-out-your-ears-slowly kind of way). Now I'll address Hypersonic Cannon. Mortis can fire this for up to a minute, and assuming Riott takes the full minute's worth, that's a serious amount of damage that I'm pretty sure will overwhelm his armor. Now, he'll have 20 seconds afterward to try and retaliate, but that's still a lot of damage. And again, only assuming he takes the full duration. Edited by Kiryu, Dec 11 2011, 02:27 AM.
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| LordNidhogg | Dec 11 2011, 11:09 PM Post #25 |
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Lord of Overkill
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Ok, before I try to rebut again, let me ask: what is it about Mortis's attacks that stuns his enemies? Is it that the frequency is dangerous to their sense of hearing? Is the pain that they cause responsible? Is it magic? I'd like to know a bit more. Though no matter what causes it, I think 10 seconds of stun time is probably generous. But maybe I'll change my mind when I know. I will say this though: Mortis's method of leading the target and such would work fine if he was hunting birds. Riott, on the other hand, is going to learn quickly that an erratic flight pattern will help him. It may not allow him to dodge everything, but he will dodge more than I think you think he will. Also, you still haven't given any counterargument about Riott simply not being in front of Mortis in melee. Riott is definitely smart enough to know you move away from the orifice emitting the danger. Even if Riott won't instantly kill Mortis in melee, and I do think it will come to melee, he could disable his sound abilities more easily with a good attack to the head, throat, or chest. Also, Riott can do something else: use a chunk of earth as a shield. Ideal? No. Totally effective? No. But it would buy him time to get close. Now, you can say that Mortis could just try to flank him while he couldn't see too well, and you're right, but to get a good shot he'd have to get closer to Riott than he would if he were more or less in front of him which, again, closes the gap. Edited by LordNidhogg, Dec 11 2011, 11:10 PM.
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I was kind of psyched when this one came up. Sometimes drawing comes up lucky (and no I didn't set this up on purpose, so don't ask).








3:29 PM Jul 11