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    Who's the winner?
    Mothra Virgo (EM) 4 (57.1%)
    Komodogator (KaijuCanuck) 3 (42.9%)
    Abstain 0 (0%)
    Total Votes: 7
    3. Mothra Virgo (EM) vs. Komodogator (KaijuCanuck)
    Topic Started: Dec 7 2011, 07:56 AM (1,515 Views)
    EternalMothra
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    Battle 3:

    Mothra Virgo (EM)

    vs.
    Komodogator (KaijuCanuck's)

    Arena: Bikini Atoll, Marshall Islands; South Pacific

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    redgriffin22
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    I'm going to have to say for me on this one is a tie. I like both of them too much to pick one over the other.
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    Kiryu
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    Round 3 has some of the most interesting match-ups this tournament.

    On the one hand, Mothra Virgo can reflect Komodogater's lightning, as well as stay out of range for him to melee.

    On the other, Komodogater can dive underwater to escape Mothra's attacks and if he's quick enough, get some serious blows in if she's not aware.

    Hard to say for me; right now I'll call it a tossup until I hear more arguments.
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    Zardac the Great
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    EM's bio says that Virgo fights like other Mothras, and specifically says that she gets up close.

    Bad idea here.

    This isn't Godzilla. I see Komodogater with a huge mouth full of large, sharp teeth. If it wasn't for that, Mothra would probably win, but I think she's going to be losing a wing.
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    LordNidhogg
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    This isn't Godzilla. I see Komodogater with a huge mouth full of large, sharp teeth. If it wasn't for that, Mothra would probably win, but I think she's going to be losing a wing.
    I think losing a wing is tantamount to defeat for Mothra Virgo. Losing a wing is worse than a land-bound creature losing a leg; you can crawl if one (or both!) of your legs is disabled/removed, but creatures with one wing don't fly: they fall awkwardly.

    Right now I'm very undecided. Komodogator has water and strength to his advantage, Mothra has flight and speed to hers. Raw power vs finesse. I'd like to see what the kaiju creators have to say before making a judgment call.
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    KaijuCanuck
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    Here is my argument for my kaiju:

    First of all, as has been stated, the water plays to Komodogater's advantage. He has no trouble remaining underwater for extended periods of time, so diving below the waves offers good cover against Mothra's ranged attacks. I'm not how each of Mothra's attacks fares traveling through water, or if they simply com bust on impact with the surface, but at the very least Mothra would have difficulty hitting Komodogater due to visibility.

    If Komodogater can grab hold of Mothra at all, I think its over. He'd tear into her the first chance he gets, and the use of electricity compounded with his powerwul mouth, claws, tail stinger and elbow blades makes it a hard situation to get away from. That said, Mothra moves fast so I'm not sure how likely it is that the battle could go to melee at all. I'm just saying that if it did, Komodogater has the advantage. One way I could see it happening is if Komodogater is hidden underwater, and Mothra, not being able to find him or know if she even hits him with her ranged attacks, comes down closer to the surface to check it out. Komodogater could perform a classic crocodile hunting move; burst out unexpectedly, grab his prey around the neck with his jaws, then take the prey back with him underwater. I'm guessing Mothra can't swim.

    The biggest problem for Komodogater, admittedly, is just whether or not Mothra would ever get close at all. He is probably a lot clumsier than Mothra, and less smart. On land I think Mothra would definitely win as long as she can stay out of melee range. But the fact that the battlefield is surrounded by water plays huge to Komodogater. Also, Komdogater does have a range attack of his one; granted, its effect is negated slightly by Mothra's scales and psychic shield, but he can't really be harmed by his own ray sent back at him because he would just re-absorb the electricity, and electricity travels at the speed of light so I don't know if Mothra would have time to get her shield up.
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    LordNidhogg
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    Interesting. I'm still not sure who would win. Mothra can stay in the air basically forever, and Komodogator likewise for the water. If the fight somehow became a melee, Komodogator would win reeeeaaaally easily. But that seems...unlikely. Now, the pacific ocean is murky enough to hide Komodogator somewhat, though I still see an ambush as unlikely.

    But in the end, Mothra has an advantage in range. Her shield and scales may not hurt Komodogator at all, but they will keep him from hurting her much either. So, though the fight would probably lost an ungodly long time, I think Mothra might eke out a win. It's still too close for me to really favor one side over the other though.
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    Zardac the Great
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    It is stated in the bio by EM that Mothra gets up close. Unless Mothra's initial bombardment manages to cripple/kill Komo, Mothra's losing a wing.

    Which, as noted above, gives Killer Croc a W.
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    Mothra Freak
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    Yeah, since Virgo likes close-quarters fighting, Komodogater would tear her to shreds. I doubt her claws and wings would be much help here thanks to KG's armor, and her own shield only blocks energy attacks.

    So, right now, I'm leaning toward Komodogater.
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    Queen Bee
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    What say you EM? I really have to agree I see Komodogator coming out on top if this battle gets up close and personal. With each being of a different environment type; Virgo air and Komog.. water- I think sooner or later they will have to meet 'eye to eye' sort of speak, which chould toll the bell for Virgo's downfall.
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    Kiryu
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    I too see this easily going in Komodo's favor if Virgo decides to try melee. However, I'm having a hard time justifying her basically going against her better judgment. Nidhogg put it best; no matter what happens, this fight is going to last awhile.
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    EternalMothra
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    Sorry its taken me so long to reply. Exam week has been killing me and I have graduation tomorrow so I should have a bit more free time yay! Regardless, I concur that if Mothra tries to battle Komodogater with melee she'll probably be obliterated; and yes Zardac, I know it states in her profile that she does battle in close-quarters sometimes but lets use some basic logic when it comes to Mothra. Mothra Virgo still battles like all other Mothra's, she's just more prone to choosing close-quartered combat if she sees it necessary. Since Mothra isn't a kaiju with the IQ span of a blade of grass I'm fairly sure if she sees this gigantic alligator with gigantic teeth and claws...she probably won't get close to it. Anyway.

    KaijuCanuck
     
    I'm guessing Mothra can't swim.


    Actually Mothra Leo showed that he could swim in ROM 2. If the Mothra is younger and strong enough it seems like swimming can be an option. So water isn't going to completely ruin all of Virgo's chances of winning.

    I'm fairly sure Mothra's going to realize that deploying her scales is a logical course of action if she gets struck by electricity. I don't see a single strike defeating her so she'll probably learn from that mistake. After deploying her scales I don't really see Komodogator's offensive abilities really helping him--so it would depend on if Mothra decides to battle him up close--which is still unlikely.

    To play devil's advocate here though with Komodogater I do see the water as being his primary advantage; though the thing is that Mothra 1) will remain in the air. and 2) She'll be traveling over the water at high speeds. I don't see Komodogater being able to catch her if he decided to lurch out of the ocean.

    Just my thoughts. I think Mothra Virgo could pull it off, but I think Komodogater could too. Though I will say if the battle comes in close quarters, Mothra's advantage would be her molecular conversion. This ability allows her to transform her body into pure energy giving her the ability to pass through an disorient an opponent. If she does battle up close I can see her implementing that tactic. Without any mass to grab ahold of, Komo isn't going to be able to rip her to shreds like several people are assuming.

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    LordNidhogg
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    Actually Mothra Leo showed that he could swim in ROM 2. If the Mothra is younger and strong enough it seems like swimming can be an option. So water isn't going to completely ruin all of Virgo's chances of winning.
    True, but unless Virgo has a secret aqua form like Leo, being in the water is almost a death sentence. She might be fine in the water on her own...but contending with a giant crocodile-esque kaiju in the water is a baaaaaad idea.

    However, you do raise a good point with the molecular conversion. It could be really effective. I'd like to know how long Virgo could keep it up though. I mean, Komodogator is quite durable. Stunning him and avoiding damage with the conversion would be great, but even with Virgo's powerful beams I'm not sure she could put him down before he retaliates. So, how often can she do the conversion and how long can she keep it up?

    If it goes to melee and Virgo can't change fast enough, she'll probably lose. She can survive a few hits, yes, but Komodogator could easily knock her onto her back into the water, which is tantamount to winning since he could just rip into her as she tried to fly out of the water. However, if she can tactically stun him and then bombard him, not a stretch given her intelligence, she could win. So...I'm torn. Both have strategies that would work, it's just a matter of what happens first.

    Also, if Komodogator used his lightning while Mothra was in the water, it could be...unpleasant.
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    EternalMothra
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    True, but unless Virgo has a secret aqua form like Leo, being in the water is almost a death sentence. She might be fine in the water on her own...but contending with a giant crocodile-esque kaiju in the water is a baaaaaad idea.


    That is a good point. Even though she can swim under water being able to battle a crocodile monster in the water (his advantage) will probably be a bit unwise.

    Quote:
     
    However, you do raise a good point with the molecular conversion. It could be really effective. I'd like to know how long Virgo could keep it up though. I mean, Komodogator is quite durable. Stunning him and avoiding damage with the conversion would be great, but even with Virgo's powerful beams I'm not sure she could put him down before he retaliates. So, how often can she do the conversion and how long can she keep it up?

    If it goes to melee and Virgo can't change fast enough, she'll probably lose. She can survive a few hits, yes, but Komodogator could easily knock her onto her back into the water, which is tantamount to winning since he could just rip into her as she tried to fly out of the water. However, if she can tactically stun him and then bombard him, not a stretch given her intelligence, she could win. So...I'm torn. Both have strategies that would work, it's just a matter of what happens first.

    Also, if Komodogator used his lightning while Mothra was in the water, it could be...unpleasant.


    While Mothra Virgo uses her molecular conversion sparingly at a distance, when she's up close she tends to use it to avoid physical combat--yet another thing I forgot to include in the profile. *sigh* Oh Well. XD Anyway, this ability acts essentially no different from Armor Mothra's transcending fate ability, though in Virgo's sense it just causes paralysis for a period of time. I'd say she can maintain cohesion in this state for about 5-10 seconds before having to revert back to her original mass. But remember, when doing this her speed becomes the advantage--in order to score a hit she's going to need to use her aerial prowess.

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    KaijuCanuck
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    Wait, so all it does is paralyze the opponent? That would be effective in that Virgo can then attack Komodogater without fear of retaliation, but thats it. Remember that Komodogater is very durable. I guess it depends on how long the paralysis lasts, but I don't see it making or breaking the battle.

    The more I think about it, the more I see the battle inevitably going to melee at some point. Komodogater may be able to hit Mothra with his beam once, but thats it, and Mothra's ranged attacks are negated considerably if Komodogater is hiding in the water, both because I'm sure the water affects the power and force of the attacks somewhat and also because Mothra just won't be able to see Komodogater. So I think melee is inevitable, eventually. But it may take a while. I mean, for any of these battles to work I'm assuming none of the combatants can simply leave, because here that would be painfully easy. So they'll just keep circling each other, waiting, until something happens. And I'm willing to bet that its Mothra who comes down for a look. Because of her intelligence, she's more susceptible to impatience or curiosity. But just like real crocodiles, as an animal Komodogater can just wait for literally hours. Reptiles don't like to move around much anyways.
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    LordNidhogg
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    I don't think it necessarily has to go to melee. I mean, it's possible, but I think Virgo would use at least some common sense and avoid it if possible. And you have a point that Komodogator is very durable. However, if Mothra just paralyzes him, shoots, him, paralyzes him, shoots him, and repeats, she could win. It would take forever, and if she messed up even once it could mean defeat, but she could theoretically do it.

    Can she do it? Maybe. At this point, the only thing I know for sure is that this battle would take forever, as I said. I think Komodogator could win more easily, but his opportunities to do so are more limited than Mothra's. So, I still don't know.
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    EternalMothra
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    KaijuCanuck
     
    The more I think about it, the more I see the battle inevitably going to melee at some point. Komodogater may be able to hit Mothra with his beam once, but thats it, and Mothra's ranged attacks are negated considerably if Komodogater is hiding in the water, both because I'm sure the water affects the power and force of the attacks somewhat and also because Mothra just won't be able to see Komodogater. So I think melee is inevitable, eventually. But it may take a while. I mean, for any of these battles to work I'm assuming none of the combatants can simply leave, because here that would be painfully easy. So they'll just keep circling each other, waiting, until something happens. And I'm willing to bet that its Mothra who comes down for a look. Because of her intelligence, she's more susceptible to impatience or curiosity. But just like real crocodiles, as an animal Komodogater can just wait for literally hours. Reptiles don't like to move around much anyways.


    On the contrary, if we look back at Rebirth of Mothra 3 we see that water really isn't much of a defense in regard to a water-faring monster. Mothra Leo literally burnt off gallons of water in order to get to Dagarah, in fact the kinetic force of the weapons also literally moved the water.

    And how exactly does intelligence make you more impatient?

    LordNidHogg
     
    I don't think it necessarily has to go to melee. I mean, it's possible, but I think Virgo would use at least some common sense and avoid it if possible. And you have a point that Komodogator is very durable. However, if Mothra just paralyzes him, shoots, him, paralyzes him, shoots him, and repeats, she could win. It would take forever, and if she messed up even once it could mean defeat, but she could theoretically do it.

    Can she do it? Maybe. At this point, the only thing I know for sure is that this battle would take forever, as I said. I think Komodogator could win more easily, but his opportunities to do so are more limited than Mothra's. So, I still don't know.


    I think Mothra could do that. She is proficient with strategizing due to her intelligence and ranged weapons. I mean I'm sure Komodogater would last for a long time due to his durability but even the most durable kaiju can be overwhelmed by offensive weaponry. (IE Space Godzilla, King Ghidorah etc)

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    LordNidhogg
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    I think Mothra could do that. She is proficient with strategizing due to her intelligence and ranged weapons. I mean I'm sure Komodogater would last for a long time due to his durability but even the most durable kaiju can be overwhelmed by offensive weaponry. (IE Space Godzilla, King Ghidorah etc)
    Yeah...but Mothra never took on any of those kaiju one-on-one. True, she took on GKG and Death Ghidorah, who are very strong, but she had to pull new forms out to do it. Virgo doesn't have that luxury; she has to work with what she has. I'm not saying she can't win, of course, just that those examples don't really help your argument much.

    Now, you mentioned that Mothra Leo blasted away tons of water to get at Dagarah. Well, how does Virgo compare to Rainbow Mothra (I believe that was her form at the time, I kind of lose track)? And, let's not forget that although she did that, the battle went very badly for her until she changed to her aqua form which, again, Virgo doesn't have. Besides, if Komodogator has even 1/100 of Godzilla's breath holding abilities, he can hold it for days or weeks. Diving down farther than almost any kaiju could blast through (without destroying the whole planet, anyways) is not unreasonable. It doesn't give Komodogator any advantage other than avoiding damage, but it is something.

    Right now, I think it depends on who hits first. Komodogator's attacks (pretty much all of them) will hurt Mothra enough that followup attacks will be very doable, and very dangerous. However, if Mothra can hit Komodogator hard quickly, or stun him with her conversion, then she could get into the (long) cycle of wearing him down. So, I guess it depends who hits first, and I'd actually bet on Komodogator. Why? Unless Virgo immediately starts with her scales, he'll probably blast her. She's fast, but lightning is faster. And unlike the water, the air she's flying around in provides absolutely no protections other than allowing free movement.
    Edited by LordNidhogg, Dec 12 2011, 01:04 PM.
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    EternalMothra
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    LordNidhogg
     
    Yeah...but Mothra never took on any of those kaiju one-on-one. True, she took on GKG and Death Ghidorah, who are very strong, but she had to pull new forms out to do it. Virgo doesn't have that luxury; she has to work with what she has. I'm not saying she can't win, of course, just that those examples don't really help your argument much.


    I was just making an example in the past with how durable kaiju eventually fell to offensive ability. Regardless if Mothra battled them or not.

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    Now, you mentioned that Mothra Leo blasted away tons of water to get at Dagarah. Well, how does Virgo compare to Rainbow Mothra (I believe that was her form at the time, I kind of lose track)? And, let's not forget that although she did that, the battle went very badly for her until she changed to her aqua form which, again, Virgo doesn't have. Besides, if Komodogator has even 1/100 of Godzilla's breath holding abilities, he can hold it for days or weeks. Diving down farther than almost any kaiju could blast through (without destroying the whole planet, anyways) is not unreasonable. It doesn't give Komodogator any advantage other than avoiding damage, but it is something.


    Rainbow Mothra was not one of her transformations until she was healed by Gho-Gho before her Aqua Mothra transformation. She was blasting the water in plain Leo form, and the only thing that gave Dagarah the advantage was his barem torando attack that he could use under the water. Mothra Virgo does not have the transformation adaptation here, but she's Leo's offspring which means she's at least equal strength with her mother, if not more. (yeah I consider Leo female yadda yadda lol)

    Quote:
     
    Right now, I think it depends on who hits first. Komodogator's attacks (pretty much all of them) will hurt Mothra enough that followup attacks will be very doable, and very dangerous. However, if Mothra can hit Komodogator hard quickly, or stun him with her conversion, then she could get into the (long) cycle of wearing him down. So, I guess it depends who hits first, and I'd actually bet on Komodogator. Why? Unless Virgo immediately starts with her scales, he'll probably blast her. She's fast, but lightning is faster. And unlike the water, the air she's flying around in provides absolutely no protections other than allowing free movement.


    Even if she's hit by lightning first I don't see it completely ruining her chances of survival right off the bat. Once she realizes that her opponent has offensive ability she's going to use her scales--and unlike most other Mothra's Mothra Virgo's scales can pretty much last as long as she wants them to. It's not precurser to her being flightless like say SOS Mothra or the Showa Mothra. Mothra's offensive arsenal is nothing to shake a stick at. Virgo's psionic mana blast for example has the offensive equality with Godzilla's spiral ray.

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    Metatora
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    Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
    I'm leaning for Komodogator to be honest. Yes, he has to stick to the water, but in order to get a good shot at him, Virgo has to get close. Which would put her at risk. Plus, Komodogator is far more durable than Virgo is, so he's going to be able to outlast her any day of the week.

    And like LordNidhogg mentioned, Komodogator can use the ocean to provide some form of cover, on top of his already high durability. While Mothra only has her scales, which are effective, if can use them quick enough, but lightning is damn fast, so Virgo needs to be quick to even have a chance of getting her defenses up in time.

    Now, Virgo could win, as Komodogator isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, so she might be able to figure out a way to win. Can she do it? Sure, but she has to overcome Komodogator's far greater durability and dodge his lightning attacks to do it.
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    EternalMothra
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    Dec 12 2011, 08:17 PM
    I'm leaning for Komodogator to be honest. Yes, he has to stick to the water, but in order to get a good shot at him, Virgo has to get close. Which would put her at risk. Plus, Komodogator is far more durable than Virgo is, so he's going to be able to outlast her any day of the week.

    And like LordNidhogg mentioned, Komodogator can use the ocean to provide some form of cover, on top of his already high durability. While Mothra only has her scales, which are effective, if can use them quick enough, but lightning is damn fast, so Virgo needs to be quick to even have a chance of getting her defenses up in time.

    Now, Virgo could win, as Komodogator isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, so she might be able to figure out a way to win. Can she do it? Sure, but she has to overcome Komodogator's far greater durability and dodge his lightning attacks to do it.
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    Metatora
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    Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
    I did, but this is Virgo, not any other Mothra we're talking about. So comparing feats is not a valid argument. And no kaiju, even a deity is fast enough to react to lightning, so Virgo is going to take at least one hit, and Mothra has never been known for her durability. Also, the ocean isn't clear in the South Pacific, I've been there, so I would know. So tracking Komodogator might be harder than you think, while Virgo is going to be an easy to spot target. So add in all the other factors mentioned by the others, and I'm still sticking with Komodogator, though a good argument for Virgo could change my mind.

    And about the scales, well, unless they stick to Virgo, they'll only be effective if she's not moving. Because they're dust-like, and dust is not very good at moving at high speeds, much less the speeds Virgo can move. And since she's "dumping" them off her as a defense, they would simply fall behind her, forming a trail. But Komodogator is going to be aiming for Virgo, not the cloud, so I don't see them as a very effective defense.
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    EternalMothra
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    I did, but this is Virgo, not any other Mothra we're talking about. So comparing feats is not a valid argument. And no kaiju, even a deity is fast enough to react to lightning, so Virgo is going to take at least one hit, and Mothra has never been known for her durability. Also, the ocean isn't clear in the South Pacific, I've been there, so I would know. So tracking Komodogator might be harder than you think, while Virgo is going to be an easy to spot target. So add in all the other factors mentioned by the others, and I'm still sticking with Komodogator, though a good argument for Virgo could change my mind.


    Eh, it is actually. Mothra Virgo is basically the same thing as Leo...she is HER OFFSPRING with many of the same abilities. Though since I seem to be providing a sub-par argument with other comparisons to other Mothra's I SUPPOSE I'll just leave my argument as that.
    Edited by EternalMothra, Dec 12 2011, 11:14 PM.

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    The Queen of all I survey..buzzzzz.....
    Ok after listening to the above 'arguments' I'm a little more on the fence. From the stand point I see Mothra Virgo being a little smarter then to jump in and fight one on one with Komodogator on his terms...I guess it will be a bit of a waiting game and it will be a guess who will flinch first. Komodogator would have to surface as would any other reptile to 'spot' Mothra V in the air so would make him easy to observe from above since Mothra tends to be pretty adept at spotting water bound objects....
    Keep giving me your arguments guys...and be sure to play nice..
    I'm interested in all arguments and coparisons- both have been compared to other creatures- it's up to us, the 'voters' to sort it out. You know, kind of like a jury. Been some time since I've got to sit on one... :)
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    Metatora
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    Does this LOOK like the face of mercy?
    @EM: But it's still not Leo, it's Virgo. Just because Virgo is Leo's daughter doesn't mean you can use Leo's feats to argue for Virgo. We have to judge these two by what's in their bios. Sure, we can stretch things a bit here and there, but using feats from another kaiju, mother or not, is a bit much IMO.
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