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Old Summoner [Dead]
Topic Started: Sep 26 2014, 03:34 PM (1,259 Views)
Kwak
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Sous Chef
Summoner (Work in Progress)

Characteristics: Intelligence, Fellowship, Willpower
Skills: Arcana, Academic Lore, Animal Ken, Command, Common Lore, Forbidden Lore, Persuasion
Magic Schools: Abjuration, Conjuration, Necromancy
Level Completion: +1 to all Tests against Warp entities

Medium
Level 1
Prerequisites: Forbidden Lore 2, Arcana 3
Feats:
  • Obtain Familiar
  • Implement Focus
  • Foresight
  • Servant Scout
  • *Tested



Caller
Level 2
Prerequisites: Forbidden Lore 3, Arcana 3, Conjuration at rank 1, Foresight
Feats:
  • Animal Companion
  • Divine Bond
  • Spell Specialization (Conjuration)
  • Strong Minded
  • Improved Lesser Servant
  • *Weapon Prof (Ordinary)



Convoker
Level 3
Prerequisites: Forbidden Lore 4, Arcana 4, Conjuration at rank 2, Improved Lesser Servant
Feats:
  • Improved Animal Companion
  • Spell Book
  • Summon Herald
  • Improved Lesser Servant
  • Servant Sight
  • *Speak Language (any)



Summoner
Level 4
Prerequisites: Forbidden Lore 4, Arcana 4, Conjuration at rank 3, Summon Herald
Feats:
  • Beastmaster
  • Mental Fortress
  • Improved Greater Servant
  • Improved Lesser Servant
  • Virgil's Guidance
  • *Spell Book



High Summoner
Level 5
Prerequisites: Prerequisites: Forbidden Lore 5, Arcana 5, Conjuration at rank 4, Improved Greater Servant
Feats:
  • Air of Authority
  • Grand Summon
  • Improved Greater Servant
  • Servant Snatch







Servant Scout
You can communicate with any warp entities. This isn't quite speech as it is between two people, but more of a general understanding and pantomime type of thing. This allows you to use social skills as normal with animals, though. Unfortunately, it allows them to do the same to you assuming they have any.
Also, you may double the duration of all spells with "Servant" in their name.

Improved Lesser Servant
When using the Conjuration spell "Lesser Servant", you may spend a resource point to instead summon a Lesser Servant of your Alignment, applying the listed changes to the summoned Servant. If you go against any of the ten commandments of a Servant's alignment while the spell lasts, the spell ends immediately and triggers Warp Phenomena. If this feat is taken additional times, a different Lesser Servant must be chosen from within your Alignment's pantheon.

To create an Improved Lesser Servant, raise two of its Attributes and four of its Skills by 1 dot. Then, select any four Traits, spells, dots of Inheritance, Special Attacks, or feats available at Level 2 or lower (at the SM's discretion). Their character, actions and abilities should reflect their Alignment.

Summon Herald
Once per session, you may spend a Hero point to attempt to summon your Alignment's Herald, a daemon which serves as an avatar of your Deity's will. Doing so takes a Full Action, and a Willpower + Conjuration Focus Power Test (TN 25). If successful, the Herald appears for the duration of the scene and act under your control. In addition, the Herald must be satisfied with "payment" by taking an action that would earn a point of Resolve in the Herald's Alignment (no Resolve is gained). If a payment is not made, the Focus Power TN is 35 instead, and you are forced to make an Alignment check for your insolence. If you go against any of the ten commandments of the Herald's alignment while it is present, you automatically trigger Perils of the Warp and lose control of the Herald, who may leave or attempt to punish you. Unlike Servants, the Herald is a unique individual, and will remember all previous encounters with its summoner. Heralds are built using the Monster Creation rules, with a level equal to the Summoner's Conjuration rank, and receive their Alignment's "Mark" Asset and the Resource Trait for free.

Old Monster rules


Servant Sight
Your ties to the beings you summon are growing. You perceive everything that your Familiar, Animal Companions, divine steed, Servants, and Herald do.

Improved Greater Servant
When using the Conjuration spell "Greater Servant", you may spend two resource points to instead summon a Greater Servant specific to your Alignment, applying the listed changes to the summoned Servant. If you go against any of the commandments of a Servant's alignment while the spell lasts, the spell ends immediately and triggers Warp Phenomena. If this feat is taken additional times, a different Greater Servant must be chosen from within your Alignment's pantheon.

To create an Improved Greater Servant, raise three of its Attributes and six of its Skills by 1 dot. Then, select any six Traits, spells, dots of Inheritance, Special Attacks, or feats available at Level 4 or lower (at the SM's discretion). Their character, actions and abilities should reflect their Alignment.

Grand Summon
You have established a genuine bond with your Herald. Choose one of the following:
Wild Card: Create a second Herald from any Alignment, even an opposing one. You may choose to summon this Herald instead, but you can still only attempt to summon a Herald once per session.
Ghostly Ripple: When summoning your Herald, you may attempt to merge your body with it. The Focus Power Test is increased to TN 35, and the payment is mandatory. If successful, you become one with your Herald for the duration of the scene, gaining all Feats, Spells, and Traits it posesses while retaining your own. The highest of all Characteristic and Skill dots are used, and your size is the average of you and your Herald's normal Size.
Cooltrainer: Your Herald can be summoned once per Scene as a Half Action, and will not go out of control if you go against the commandments of your Alignment, triggering Warp Phenomena instead of Perils of the Warp.

Servant Snatch
Your mastery over Warp entities is absolute. Once per scene, you may attempt to snatch a ghost, daemon, summoned servant, or other Warp entity by making an Opposed Willpower test as a full action. The target adds their current hit points and the caster level of their caster (if applicable) as a bonus to their roll. If you win, the target behaves as if summoned with a Lesser Servant spell, vanishing once the duration expires. If the target wins, you are Stunned for one round and trigger Warp Phenomena.
Edited by Kwak, Mar 22 2016, 12:49 AM.
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Kwak
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Sous Chef
Quote:
 
Servant Snatch seems a bit... well, reminds me of a few Yu-gi-oh and MtG cards that made me want to throttle the person doing it... Other than that, seems fine and solid.

Hmm...not sure whether to take that as criticism or a compliment :P Having never played either of those, I was going for a Pokemon-esque style there. Would it be better if the defending summoner was able to defend more than a +1 to +5? Like, maybe they add their Conjuration dice? That way it would be way less common for your cards to get mindshackled...

Quote:
 
I'd suggest switching Foresight for Servant Scout as the prerequisite for 2nd level though. Just to make extra-sure people will get the 1st level before moving to the second. As was proven in these forums, there was a way to start out as a 5th level character, before LawfulNice fixed it.


Actually, I made it Foresight on purpose to allow for multiclassing - Level 1 is basically optional, and players may choose to take Magician 1 or Chief Arcana Officer instead. Summoner 1 represents somebody who takes the time to really get the foundations down and learn control/finesse before beginning to summon. Perhaps I should add another feat in there to make it more desirable compared to the alternatives?

Quote:
 
dea; how about some feats/Completion bonuses that strengthen the already-existing Summon spells, instead of having to invent something new? Or, at least, summon and maintain more than ONE per Summon spell.


Most of them do just that. I'll admit that needing to write up a bunch of specific monsters for the "Summon X" series is rather unweildy/drastic, it seemed to be what the people asking for a summoner class were interested in. Are there parts you would suggest removing, or should I just add some vanilla-spell buffs to levels 2 and 4 and let them be a bit long?
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Soulblazer_87

Quote:
 
Hmm...not sure whether to take that as criticism or a compliment :P Having never played either of those, I was going for a Pokemon-esque style there. Would it be better if the defending summoner was able to defend more than a +1 to +5? Like, maybe they add their Conjuration dice? That way it would be way less common for your cards to get mindshackled...


I just notified that I really, really hate that kind of strategy and ability. What you do about it (or don't do) is completely up to you, of course.

Quote:
 
Actually, I made it Foresight on purpose to allow for multiclassing - Level 1 is basically optional, and players may choose to take Magician 1 or Chief Arcana Officer instead. Summoner 1 represents somebody who takes the time to really get the foundations down and learn control/finesse before beginning to summon. Perhaps I should add another feat in there to make it more desirable compared to the alternatives?


Since every other class in the game that has an actual progression needs you to complete the one previous, I think you really shouldn't do that. Can a character skip to Warrior lv2, just because 'they didn't put all that much effort into it'? I think not. While it IS good to have synergy between classes, to highlight how some combinations work better than others and, indeed, that it IS good to multi-class, rather than just go 1->5 as fast as possible, I don't agree with making any 1st level 'optional'.

Quote:
 
Most of them do just that. I'll admit that needing to write up a bunch of specific monsters for the "Summon X" series is rather unweildy/drastic, it seemed to be what the people asking for a summoner class were interested in. Are there parts you would suggest removing, or should I just add some vanilla-spell buffs to levels 2 and 4 and let them be a bit long?


I know that most of the 'new' summons won't do much other than get a bonus in various places compared to the original spells (which truth be told are just vague enough to use them for whatever you want) but I just think it would be too much work to write down endless amounts of summons just for that. A faster solution would be to say "Lesser Summons get 2 Attribute points and 2 choices of feats from [Feat and/or Ability List], while Greater Summons get 4 Attribute points and 3 choices from [Feat and/or Ability List]" and then just write down various ideas with their usually favored attributes and/or abilities, if any. Corellon's summons would have higher Dexterity, while Bahamut's would have a fire breath. It would still allow players a wide variety of choices for all jobs, as well as save you a lot of copy-pasta.
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Kwak
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Sous Chef


Quote:
 
Since every other class in the game that has an actual progression needs you to complete the one previous, I think you really shouldn't do that. Can a character skip to Warrior lv2, just because 'they didn't put all that much effort into it'?


Yes, they can be a Barbarian lv1, then use the Power Attack feat to get into Warrior lv2. Similarly, a lv1 Summoner, lv3 Science Guy, or lv4 Operator can skip Magic User lv1, just as they can skip Summoner lv1. There's certainly a precedent in the vanilla game for being able to occasionally skip levels. I see that as a feature, not a bug.

Quote:
 
While it IS good to have synergy between classes, to highlight how some combinations work better than others and, indeed, that it IS good to multi-class, rather than just go 1->5 as fast as possible, I don't agree with making any 1st level 'optional'.


That's understandable, but then why even have feat prerequisites? Just say you have to do the class's preceding level, and guarantee that this thing never happens. But as it stands right now, I don't see a problem with implementing shortcuts in moderation.


Quote:
 
I know that most of the 'new' summons won't do much other than get a bonus in various places compared to the original spells (which truth be told are just vague enough to use them for whatever you want) but I just think it would be too much work to write down endless amounts of summons just for that. A faster solution would be to say "Lesser Summons get 2 Attribute points and 2 choices of feats from [Feat and/or Ability List], while Greater Summons get 4 Attribute points and 3 choices from [Feat and/or Ability List]" and then just write down various ideas with their usually favored attributes and/or abilities, if any. Corellon's summons would have higher Dexterity, while Bahamut's would have a fire breath. It would still allow players a wide variety of choices for all jobs, as well as save you a lot of copy-pasta.


That makes sense, as tempted as I am to allow 1s in attributes. (If you can't minmax, you might as well stick to the base spell...) But excess copypasta = no bueno...
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Eisenritter
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Old Iron Knight
Kwak
Oct 10 2014, 06:09 PM

Quote:
 
Since every other class in the game that has an actual progression needs you to complete the one previous, I think you really shouldn't do that. Can a character skip to Warrior lv2, just because 'they didn't put all that much effort into it'?


Yes, they can be a Barbarian lv1, then use the Power Attack feat to get into Warrior lv2. Similarly, a lv1 Summoner, lv3 Science Guy, or lv4 Operator can skip Magic User lv1, just as they can skip Summoner lv1. There's certainly a precedent in the vanilla game for being able to occasionally skip levels. I see that as a feature, not a bug.
Barbarian is better at fighting than the fighter is. As it has always been, as it shall always be. B-)
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Kwak
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Sous Chef
Alright, we have summoning rules now. Feedback would be much appreciated.

-Lesser Summons get to have 3 dots in some stuff instead of straight 2s, Greater ones get 5s instead of 4s. They also can get feats & monster traits, and trigger Phenomena if you piss them off.

-Heralds are their own damn character, since anything short of that would be a disappointment. They also can buy abilities from the Power stats of any exalt, and trigger Perils of the Warp if you piss them off (so think twice before spamming). Finally, I simplified the "sacrifice" to just be earning Resolve, since that's a mechanic already in the game and prevents arguing with GMs over exactly how many virgin sacrifices are required to summon Mara.
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weredrago2
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He Who Posts Too Much
These new rules sound solid. I'm going to try making some summons and heralds with them as a test run later.
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Methodia
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Mediocre Overlord
How does heralds buying exalt things actually work? What are the limits on it? And what if a character wants to buy one of the default powers of an exalt for a herald, rather than one of the ones linked to the power state? Maybe an example of building a herald or other summons would help.
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Kwak
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Sous Chef
Methodia
Jun 26 2015, 02:04 AM
How does heralds buying exalt things actually work? What are the limits on it? And what if a character wants to buy one of the default powers of an exalt for a herald, rather than one of the ones linked to the power state? Maybe an example of building a herald or other summons would help.
It costs as much as the Power Stat itself - 200 XP per dot. So, for instance, if I wanted to give Not of This World (Daemonhost Arcanoi ****) to my Grim Reaper Herald, it would cost 800 XP - 200 for every dot in Arcanoi. Defaults like Daemonic Tutor would, as written, cost 200 since you get them at Arcanoi 1 I guess. Or I could just specify that only the powers from the Arcanoi table count? That seems best, actually, because a lot of these initial ones are really weird.

Other current issues that have me stumped are:


  • Size. Bigger isn't necessarily better, right? Servants & Heralds don't have races to calculate this...
  • Magic & Sword Schools. How much should they have access to? I don't want Tzeentch Summoners to render Magic Users obsolete, but spellcasting summons should be a thing, to a degree...
  • That 1,000 XP per level thing was pulled straight out of my ass, but does it work? Heralds need to be game-changing but not game-breaking.
  • How do we put these increasingly-long descriptions into the book without it being hideous and taking up 3 pages of feat-text-block-column?
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Methodia
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Mediocre Overlord
Hmmm. Well, if people are interested enough, now that we have this template for making Heralds, people could start pre-making Heralds for the various alignments. I know there's lurking anons who want to help, now we have something people can actually do. If we get enough we can throw them in the book, and add a note where a GM can use a custom one in their own campaign. Of course, you should approve all of that before anything happens, Kwak.

Though all in all, Summoner is fun and I would play one in a heartbeat as is. Stand User time!

Custom Heralds could be Stands in a JoJo centric game... Kryptonian Summoners fighting Vampiric Summoners.

EDIT: I'll probably be making pre-made heralds in my free time when I'm back on my own computer, currently have technological issues.
Edited by Methodia, Jun 26 2015, 03:27 AM.
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Kwak
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Sous Chef
Clarified the Herald rules, they should be okay for test-building Heralds now
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