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Languages; Are there too many?
Topic Started: Jan 27 2016, 11:32 PM (2,132 Views)
Kwak
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Sous Chef
Alternatively: The "crystal" in Baator's sphere is 76% Warpstone. The Daemon Pact things are just because everybody's so gross they think that everybody they take out a loan with is a Daemon
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weredrago2
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He Who Posts Too Much
You can always use the Errata thread (and the Google doc I made for it) to remake whatever fluff you don't think fits the game. Like you did with Tau. You can crosspost that too.
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Eisenritter
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weredrago2
Feb 20 2016, 10:51 PM
As for the whole "Unseelie" thing, I feel that you should change Dullahans and Fair Folk to speaking "Sidhe" and give Unseelie Fair Folk the Spirit and/or Abyssal language(s).

Starting with this, because I think Kwak's already pretty much resolved the Infernal/Abyssal thing more peaceably than I would trust myself to at this point.

I am, in fact, planning to address this. The current plan is to start with the Tuatha and then retcon the Dullahans based on the result of that. At the moment my justification for this particular snarl is that Dullahans were written first, and Tuatha were made using converged elements of other traditionally Fae races (like, say, Dryads).

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EDIT: If Dusklings hop into the Materium all the time (which, last I recall, they do), would that not be viable justification to give them an additional free language option?

I... have no viable argument against this, actually. Hm.

Kwak
Feb 21 2016, 12:36 AM
In D&D/Planescape, Baator is Lawful Evil, and its devils are diametrically opposed to the Abyss's daemons. Does that mean Baator has angels?

No, diametric opposition to the (CE) Abyss would be (LG) Celestia. According to Fiendish Codex II, the original devils were warriors of law who fought back the tides of chaos for the gods... before any concept of good or evil, evil would ultimately be defined by Asmodeus introducing the concept of Punishment for releasing the demons, and increasingly draconic methods to enact it.

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Basically, the lack of a separate concept of evil, and devils, makes the lore collide weirdly. So I'm coming out of this not knowing what the fuck to make of Baator in general, nor do I understand what Dusklings/Vizards have to do with it very well or what the Umbra has to do with Baator as opposed to the Abyss.

Once again: Devil (which Dusklings/Vizards are based on) = Hell = Infernal.
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weredrago2
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He Who Posts Too Much
You forgot to refute the rest of my post there. I'd like to see a counterargument.

Also, your math is also wrong. Devil (which Tieflings/Daemons are based on) = Abyss = Abyssal.
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Eisenritter
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weredrago2
Feb 21 2016, 08:07 PM
You forgot to refute the rest of my post there. I'd like to see a counterargument.

Kwak
Feb 21 2016, 12:46 AM
So actually, calling the Umbral/Baatorian races "Infernal" is the perfect compromise, because like their geographic roots you can interpret them however's convenient. If you rule that Infernal is a typo synonym for Abyssal, then Eisenritter has decided to make them speak Abyssal, he just wrote it out differently. And if you rule that Infernal and Abyssal should be retconned to be distinct, then you agree with Eisenritter's decision.

There you go.

weredrago2
 
Also, your math is also wrong.

You're talking to someone who's played D&D. My math isn't wrong; yours is lacking data.
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weredrago2
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He Who Posts Too Much
I was referring to this.
weredrago2
Feb 20 2016, 10:51 PM
Okay, so Vizards are spooky mask guys and Dusklings are imps. So? Regardless of their origins, that doesn't mean they deserve their own 'spooky language' to themselves when Abyssal is a fine alternative.

Also, if Infernal isn't some sort of 'Umbra Trade' (which wouldn't make sense anyway when regular Trade is an option), then why the hell do Vizards and Dusklings both share it? Why would Dullahans join the "We All Speak Infernal For No Reason" Club if they don't have any communication between each other? I mean, its not like Infernal would have the same overarching influence as a language made by the Ruinous Powers.

If they have little to no communication, I don't see why they'd share a unique language to themselves.

Plus, if people in Baator speak Infernal and not Abyssal (of there should be no difference), then you have a billion Tieflings who can't speak their own language.
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Eisenritter
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Kwak
Feb 21 2016, 12:46 AM
So actually, calling the Umbral/Baatorian races "Infernal" is the perfect compromise, because like their geographic roots you can interpret them however's convenient. If you rule that Infernal is a typo synonym for Abyssal, then Eisenritter has decided to make them speak Abyssal, he just wrote it out differently. And if you rule that Infernal and Abyssal should be retconned to be distinct, then you agree with Eisenritter's decision.


Nope, that was covered.
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weredrago2
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He Who Posts Too Much
So, are you agreeing with me or not? Kwak's comment is an open ended statement. I'm just concerned as to what will be going into the PDF and becoming 'canon'.

On the topic of Tuatha/Fair Folk/Raksha/[REDACTED], why do they speak Spirit? If Abyssal (spoken by tieflings and daemons) and Spirit (spoken by ghots and primal spirits in the Umbra) are defined as two different things, I don't see why we can't have Sidhe as a unique language distinct from those two. Unseelie can have Abyssal and/or Spirit as bonus languages.

In the same way we have Fairies speaking Spirit, I can imagine Dullahans and Changelings speaking Sidhe as a racial language.
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weredrago2
Feb 21 2016, 08:28 PM
If Abyssal (spoken by tieflings and daemons)
Not so fast. Spoken by SOME Daemons. Although they probably prefer to be called Angels, there are likely just as many Daemons working for Blessed Order and speaking Celestial.
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Eisenritter
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I was under the impression that we were going to discuss what the Tuatha were speaking first and determine the other "Fae" races' stuff from there? That being said, again, Tuatha speaking Spirit was drawn from an existing traditional fey (Dryads) having the same, and Fae generally being associated with nature/primal spirits anyway.
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