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Languages; Are there too many?
Topic Started: Jan 27 2016, 11:32 PM (2,142 Views)
Username

I think Syrneth might be meant to be a "secret language", judging by how the Speech Gemstone heartstones make a point of mentioning that there are no Syrneth Speechstones known to exist and that the language died with them. So Atlanteans get it but other than that you'd mostly be out of luck.

It would make sense for Slaadi and Lizardfolk to speak the same language though. What the name of it would be, I do not know. Saurian perhaps, although Slaadi are more amphibian than reptile I believe.
Edited by Username, Jan 28 2016, 12:19 AM.
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weredrago2
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I labelled Slaad as speaking Primordial. So loud croaking/gargling noises that they insist is complex language descended from Syrneth.

EDIT: Dullahans are labelled as speaking Unseelie. Might as well switch it to Spirit-tongue. Goblins can also switch to Orc, and Lizardmen to Primordial.
Edited by weredrago2, Jan 28 2016, 12:22 AM.
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Perhaps it could be mentioned in the fluff that Primordial and Saurian use the same alphabet and can mostly be understood between each other, but is also wildly different in dialect, pronunciation and other such things that make a language what it is? It would lead some credence to the belief of both races, but at the same time I doubt they would get along overly well due to their different outlooks on the Syrne so neither would budge on the situation of which language is "correct".

EDIT: Right, I forgot to bring up the Dullahan language. I noticed that when going through the third book for Spirit Speakers but forgot to actually raise the point.

Orcs and Goblins don't really work though. Fluff wise, they are entirely unrelated. Orcs are an artificial Syrneth Race used in the war against the C'tan and spread across the wheel, while Goblins are just a sentient race that come from a specific crystal sphere. In order for it to work, Goblins would need their fluff changed a bit.

Perhaps Orcs were the "Precursors" that lead to Goblins being uplifted, similar to the relationship Dragons have with Kobolds and Dragonborn. The "Monolith" for the primitive Goblins was an Orc Warband that came to their sphere looking for a scrap but left bored because the Goblins were too shrimpy and weak to be worth fighting. Memories of the Orcs, and their semi-functional but high firepower weapons left around the sphere, kick started the development of the Goblin people into a developing and advanced race.
Edited by Username, Jan 28 2016, 12:31 AM.
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Kwak
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Or, Goblins were ex-Gretchin that got away and started their own thing after a few thousand years of serving da boyz.
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weredrago2
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I would edit the opening post to make a list of what should be changed.
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Reading over the Goblin entry again, I think Orc would work for them. It leaves the mystery of if the Syrne had a hand in their creation or development a mystery in the fluff and them speaking the same language as Orcs adds another wrinkle to that. I think it is best if we don't go into detail in their actual entry and leave it up to the Starmaster to decide what the truth is, with what we mentioned both being options along with others.

Perhaps it is too much Elder Scrolls, but I always enjoyed that kind of mystery and ambiguity.
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Eisenritter
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...Goblins need a bit of touching up anyway.

On the subject of my choices:

  • Dullahans speak Unseelie, which is, yes, their language. They predate the War in Heaven and have no association with the Umbra save for that implied by their patron's domain.
  • Giant (Cyclopes, Goliaths) strikes me as sharing just enough in common with Human to confuse berks, but not enough to be the same language. See the difference in body language between cats and dogs.
  • Underhive (Ghouls) is very clearly a corrupted form of Trade, standing alone due primarily to rules of grammar, probably filling a role similar to Thieves' Cant. Ghouls speak broken Trade because they try to apply the same rules as their native Underhive.
  • Gith, like its native speakers, is an artificial tongue that served the purposes of a slave race and little else. Githyanki are too arrogant to drop it, Githzerai too apathetic.
  • Dusklings were an earlier work. If they're to change to a shared language with anyone, it would be Infernal alongside their neighbors in the shallow Umbra, the Vizards.
  • Kor is based on one of the sources I used; they're keeping their native tongue alive in their exodus.
  • Kythons don't have a native tongue so much as a bestial sort of body language combined with various vocalizations, that doesn't match up with any of the beastkin races'. Hence, their own language.
  • Aquan follows the "tradition" set by the Eldarin races, who each have their own language. If anything, I'd just change it to Sahuagin.
  • Satori were meant to be little oddballs. They stuck around with the Eldarin, they're commonly found on Eldarin ships, therefore I felt comfortable with leaving them the Eldarin language. Plus Spirit-tongue, similar to the Dryad.
  • Regarding the beastkin races, the only ones that have any business being shared/similar are Catfolk and Sphinxes (both derived from the same animal), and Slaadi and Ophidians (strictly derived from Egyptian myth). To answer one specifically brought up in this thread, given the fluff currently in use Arachne would not want anything to do with a race that reveres Lolth, and in fact may predate the Dark Eldarin's colonization of the Webway.
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Marimalade

See, fluff-wise, that's all good and dandy. But have you stopped for a moment to think about how a player, let alone someone new to the books would think about that? They get excited to make a bookworm character or a translator or something, only to find out that it doesn't matter what they picked because there's so much of it. This is a game, meant to be played; it is not a forum RP.

EDIT::

Just counting them up, there's currently 30 (my counting may be off by one or two) languages between the three books. 15 of those (not counting Syrneth) are from the first two books. That means that homebrew doubled the number you have to pick from.
Edited by Marimalade, Jan 28 2016, 01:19 AM.
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Eisenritter
Jan 28 2016, 12:48 AM

  • Dullahans speak Unseelie, which is, yes, their language. They predate the War in Heaven and have no association with the Umbra save for that implied by their patron's domain.
Eh, the fluff keeps whether they really predate the War in Heaven ambiguous. I say they're just being angsty chuu2s about it. I'd even say that the War in Heaven probably predates the Gods themselves, which is I think how it works in 40k, so the God curse part is clearly not the whole truth there if they really are that old.

Considering the Dullahans dealing with the Raven Queen, their race adapting the Spirit tongue from whatever it was they spoke thousands and thousands of years ago makes sense either way.

As for Infernal, wouldn't that be the language they speak in Baator rather than anything Umbra related?
Edited by Username, Jan 28 2016, 01:36 AM.
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Eisenritter
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Marimalade
Jan 28 2016, 01:08 AM
See, fluff-wise, that's all good and dandy. But have you stopped for a moment to think about how a player, let alone someone new to the books would think about that? They get excited to make a bookworm character or a translator or something, only to find out that it doesn't matter what they picked because there's so much of it. This is a game, meant to be played; it is not a forum RP.

EDIT::

Just counting them up, there's currently 30 (my counting may be off by one or two) languages between the three books. 15 of those (not counting Syrneth) are from the first two books. That means that homebrew doubled the number you have to pick from.


Hi, welcome to post-OGL fantasy gaming. The thing about homebrew? Is that the SM determines what, if anything, is in use. Unless I'm much mistaken, players should be vetting their concepts by the SM anyway. The SM, just so we're clear, determines exactly what is present in his campaign, we merely provide options that can be present if he so chooses.

Username
Jan 28 2016, 01:20 AM
As for Infernal, wouldn't that be the language the speak in Baator rather than anything Umbra related?


Makes you think about just where the Vizards might have originally come from, don't you think?
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