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Languages; Are there too many?
Topic Started: Jan 27 2016, 11:32 PM (2,141 Views)
Marimalade

Eisenritter
Jan 28 2016, 01:24 AM

Hi, welcome to post-OGL fantasy gaming. The thing about homebrew? Is that the SM determines what, if anything, is in use. Unless I'm much mistaken, players should be vetting their concepts by the SM anyway. The SM, just so we're clear, determines exactly what is present in his campaign, we merely provide options that can be present if he so chooses.
The thing about turning it in to a full book? It kind of makes that a bit more difficult. You aren't seeing these in separate instances, you're seeing them all at once. That also doesn't help if the GM is unsure about what they'll have over the course of the campaign. I'm not really seeing why you can't make compromises. Languages die over time, others are adopted.

EDIT::

An Idea comes to mind: What if homebrew languages had a lower cost of learning to them? For example, being able to choose two homebrew languages over one book 1/2 language. This would allow the amount to be kept at maximum fluffiness, while still being tolerable to a player.
Edited by Marimalade, Jan 28 2016, 01:46 AM.
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Reading over the two races again, Infernal does make sense for both the Dusklings and Vizards. I sort of forgot what Vizards are due to them not being in the book copy I have.

Clearly the best solution here for people not wanting to budge on the languages their races speak is for the rest of us to think up a billion new races and give them all the same language, or at least languages that already exist. I personally recommend everyone speak Sload, it just makes the most sense.

As for the Sload, I think I'll switch them over to speaking Eldarin. Makes sense, given their fluff.
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Kwak
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Eisenritter
Jan 28 2016, 01:24 AM
Marimalade
Jan 28 2016, 01:08 AM
See, fluff-wise, that's all good and dandy. But have you stopped for a moment to think about how a player, let alone someone new to the books would think about that? They get excited to make a bookworm character or a translator or something, only to find out that it doesn't matter what they picked because there's so much of it. This is a game, meant to be played; it is not a forum RP.
Just counting them up, there's currently 30 (my counting may be off by one or two) languages between the three books. 15 of those (not counting Syrneth) are from the first two books. That means that homebrew doubled the number you have to pick from.


Hi, welcome to post-OGL fantasy gaming. The thing about homebrew? Is that the SM determines what, if anything, is in use. Unless I'm much mistaken, players should be vetting their concepts by the SM anyway. The SM, just so we're clear, determines exactly what is present in his campaign, we merely provide options that can be present if he so chooses.
Well here's my take on that whole thing:

Homebrew Presentation/Language in General



But anyway, the point isn't whether we're OGL or Forum RP or Rifts, the point is what languages can we reasonably merge? Clearly, we're all going to have disagreements on how far "reasonably" goes, but that's something we can talk out and cooperate on.

So Mobians could have picked up the language of their Syrneth overlords, an offshoot of that (Primordial? Not really their style, but...), or a language from one of their conquerors, like Draconic or Human. Hell, any spacefaring race could have brought them literacy. Maybe the Eldarin, because they're the spacefaring-est?


Brainstorming with Eisenritter's Choices


TL;DR I agree everyone speak sload
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Eisenritter
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Old Iron Knight
Marimalade
Jan 28 2016, 01:39 AM
An Idea comes to mind: What if homebrew languages had a lower cost of learning to them? For example, being able to choose two homebrew languages over one book 1/2 language. This would allow the amount to be kept at maximum fluffiness, while still being tolerable to a player.
You know what, I'll just be blunt. I'm adamant about this because your fun is not my fun and you're generalizing something I can only see as your preference onto everybody. Guess what? I've played D&D before Fourth came along. As a player, I'm perfectly fine with having a shitton of languages, if only because it makes learning to speak them less of a wasted resource.

That said, I'm going to one-up you here, if you're that jacked-up about it? Why don't we toss this over into the Errata thread, and make Speak Language give two languages, period?
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weredrago2
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What does Sload sound like again?

EDIT: On the topic of languages, what groups don't speak Trade? It seems that everyone does, making the entire language system a moot point.
Edited by weredrago2, Jan 28 2016, 02:05 AM.
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I think this thread is a better place for this discussion rather than Errata, as that thread is more about actual errors and oversights in the original books, while this thread is more about the mechanics brought into focus in the newer books.

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Kwak
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Eisenritter
Jan 28 2016, 01:55 AM
Marimalade
Jan 28 2016, 01:39 AM
An Idea comes to mind: What if homebrew languages had a lower cost of learning to them? For example, being able to choose two homebrew languages over one book 1/2 language. This would allow the amount to be kept at maximum fluffiness, while still being tolerable to a player.
You know what, I'll just be blunt. I'm adamant about this because your fun is not my fun and you're generalizing something I can only see as your preference onto everybody. Guess what? I've played D&D before Fourth came along. As a player, I'm perfectly fine with having a shitton of languages, if only because it makes learning to speak them less of a wasted resource.

That said, I'm going to one-up you here, if you're that jacked-up about it? Why don't we toss this over into the Errata thread, and make Speak Language give two languages, period?
I...think that's more or less what they're suggesting. Don't see where one-upping factors in, other than the fact that the new kid thinks we're a bunch of forum RPers or some shit. But weredrago, Username and I have at least shown some interest in doing something with this so it isn't just about you two and your own preferences.

At any rate, Mobians currently don't have a unique language and I don't intend to make a new one for them. You know your races well, Eisenritter, would any of them make sense as long-term colonizers of a massive Syrneth Tomb World?

EDIT
Quote:
 
On the topic of languages, what groups don't speak Trade? It seems that everyone does, making the entire language system a moot point.

Good point, though that is for starting Adventurers. Random villagers or ferals may not have Trade since they're cut off from intersphere culture. At least, that's how I've ran it.
Edited by Kwak, Jan 28 2016, 02:08 AM.
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Kwak
Jan 28 2016, 01:54 AM
TL;DR I agree everyone speak sload
Except of course the Sload, who now speak Eldarin. And of course, Trade.

Trade was actually secretly developed by the Sload so that they could write all the trade deals and negotiations in their own favour, and is in fact Sload.

Of course, since Sload/Trade is a delicate language consisting mostly of subtle pheromones and flatulence, most people just fake it. Sure makes Silent Auctions awkward though.

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Doc
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Kwak
 
What if Sphinx riddles formed the basis for Trade, or something, and Sphinxes got Trade, Any? It would cement their status as wise and book-smart, though the reclusiveness makes it odd...

I personally know how I'd have Sphinxes talk, but that's beside the point.
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weredrago2
Jan 28 2016, 02:03 AM
What does Sload sound like again?

EDIT: On the topic of languages, what groups don't speak Trade? It seems that everyone does, making the entire language system a moot point.
Everyone CAN speak Trade, but they may chose to be dicks about it. Crazy Dragon Cultists that only speak and write in Draconic is a good example, and I imagine most of the forces of Order and Chaos only deal in Celestial or Abyssal even if they aren't Aasimar or Tieflings.

Furthermore, I figure Trade is a functional language but lacks much of the expressiveness a native language can offer. It is short and to the point, with a few phrases such as "how much is this?", "That's too much", "Which way to the toilet?", and "Well up yours, berk" being taught to children so they can get by. If a Starmaster wanted to encourage use of specific languages, they might impose a penalty on a character dealing with trade for anything other than actual trade, since that isn't what the language is designed for, or perhaps instead provide a bonus rolled die if an appropriate specific non-trade language is used since it allows better diction for the native speakers than Trade would.
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