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Languages; Are there too many?
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Topic Started: Jan 27 2016, 11:32 PM (2,140 Views)
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Kwak
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Jan 28 2016, 02:20 AM
Post #31
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Sous Chef
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- Doc
- Jan 28 2016, 02:13 AM
- Kwak
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What if Sphinx riddles formed the basis for Trade, or something, and Sphinxes got Trade, Any? It would cement their status as wise and book-smart, though the reclusiveness makes it odd... I personally know how I'd have Sphinxes talk, but that's beside the point. Hey, since Necrons are Egyptian, Sphinxes are Egyptian and implied to be related to the C'tan, the C'tan have no language currently, what if they spoke C'tan? That's spooky. Maybe the Nephilim could get C'tan a la Werewolf? And if the Catfolk, being cats, share the Sphinx's language, they can speak C'tan and Cat-holicism is secrectly C'tanholicism CATGIRLS WORSHIP MODRONS OH NO
EDIT: im sorry
Edited by Kwak, Jan 28 2016, 02:23 AM.
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Eisenritter
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Jan 28 2016, 02:20 AM
Post #32
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Old Iron Knight
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- Kwak
- Jan 28 2016, 01:54 AM
Brainstorming with Eisenritter's Choices - Quote:
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Underhive (Ghouls) is very clearly a corrupted form of Trade, standing alone due primarily to rules of grammar, probably filling a role similar to Thieves' Cant. Ghouls speak broken Trade because they try to apply the same rules as their native Underhive.
Could this be the same as the Halflings' language, which would also be like a Thieves' Cant? They're both dirty slummers, right? - Quote:
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Gith, like its native speakers, is an artificial tongue that served the purposes of a slave race and little else. Githyanki are too arrogant to drop it, Githzerai too apathetic.
If that unspecified race that built the Warforged was Giztherai, they could speak Geth instead of Binary. I like Binary, so I don't really know about this change, just throwing it out there. - Quote:
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Dusklings were an earlier work. If they're to change to a shared language with anyone, it would be Infernal alongside their neighbors in the shallow Umbra, the Vizards.
Makes sense. - Quote:
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Kor is based on one of the sources I used; they're keeping their native tongue alive in their exodus.
Any relations to Fairy or Unseelie? - Quote:
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Kythons don't have a native tongue so much as a bestial sort of body language combined with various vocalizations, that doesn't match up with any of the beastkin races'. Hence, their own language.
They're oddbally in their mechanics too, so that makes sense. I might have Kroot & Vespid speak Kython, depending on how hard I fluff 'em together. - Quote:
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Catfolk and Sphinxes (both derived from the same animal)
What if Sphinx riddles formed the basis for Trade, or something, and Sphinxes got Trade, Any? It would cement their status as wise and book-smart, though the reclusiveness makes it odd... - Quote:
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Slaadi and Ophidians (strictly derived from Egyptian myth)
No dice on the Bahamut thing? - Quote:
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Arachne would not want anything to do with a race that reveres Lolth, and in fact may predate the Dark Eldarin's colonization of the Webway.
I was thinking more that the Dark Eldarin would have spoken Arachne, but because of Book 1 Arachne happens to be called "Dark Eldarin". That's awful janky, though, huh.
Spoiler: click to toggle Admittedly, comparing Underhive to Thieves' Cant was probably poorly thought-out. Might be more accurate to liken it to some broken bastard tongue comprised of nearly every language, but easier to adapt to new additions than Trade is... a bit like Glossia in the Eisenhorn novels, I would think? Gith were among my suggestions back when Warforged were called Geth, yes. I don't think weredrago's added a proper SIR feat yet, tho.  My idea of the Kor language is based on Cthulhu Tech's Nazzadi, so it'd probably be a bit closer to Human in that regard. That said, I have the Kor as itinerants with an affinity for rough terrain, so that should bring the comparison around to Ork, though weighted more toward travel-related jargon than fighty stuff, with a cadence more like sing-songy Elven. I had thought to fold Kroot (at least) into the Kythons, actually. Vespids seem like they'd be closer to Thri-Kreen? ...You may have a point on Sphinxes, actually. Might edit those next. Call it my two greens, but in Egyptian myth, the Hebdoad (the gods that you probably learned about, i.e. Horus, Anubis, etc.) were proceeded by the Ogdoad... creatures of chaos that the ancient Egyptians represented using toads and serpents. Which is why Pathfinder's CN outsiders are all snakelike, but I digress. It might be a bit obscure of a reference, I suppose... hell, though, just add Draconic to the Ophidians' existing languages; they might use it in religious ceremony, while using Ophidian any other time. It's more likely that Dark Eldarin derives from Eldarin (and so would Elven, mind), or is at most influenced by Arachne rather than being a simple lift of the language. Arachne itself might have more in common with Kreen as a language, separated from that by a different set of mouthparts.
EDIT: God damn it Kwak.
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Username
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Jan 28 2016, 02:42 AM
Post #33
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- Doc
- Jan 28 2016, 02:13 AM
- Kwak
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What if Sphinx riddles formed the basis for Trade, or something, and Sphinxes got Trade, Any? It would cement their status as wise and book-smart, though the reclusiveness makes it odd... I personally know how I'd have Sphinxes talk, but that's beside the point. Reminds me a bit of The Lady's Dabus, which all speak in Rebus. COINCIDENCE? CONSPIRACY?
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Kwak
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Jan 28 2016, 02:48 AM
Post #34
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Sous Chef
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I love how none of us (afaik except caster) have ever touched the Reapers as far as lore
Edited by Kwak, Jan 28 2016, 02:51 AM.
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Eisenritter
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Jan 28 2016, 02:51 AM
Post #35
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Old Iron Knight
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...Define "Reapers," because I recall taking a shot at a not-Sovereign in one of the various attempts I made at the Fluff thread?
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Doc
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Jan 28 2016, 03:54 AM
Post #36
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Just a Guy
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- Kwak
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And if the Catfolk, being cats, share the Sphinx's language, they can speak C'tan and Cat-holicism is secrectly C'tanholicism
We can actually link that to something, amusingly. The merfolk in M:tG actually worshipped the Eldrazi Titans, though under different names.
Of course, whether we care to do that is a different matter, but still.
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Divergent Reality
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Jan 28 2016, 09:21 AM
Post #37
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Quality Not Guaranteed!
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Of all these languages, how many are artificial constructs, like Binary?
It seems like it is time for a species/language flowchart or Venn diagram.
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Eisenritter
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Jan 28 2016, 02:20 PM
Post #38
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Old Iron Knight
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My views on Book 1 and 2. Celestial and Abyssal may be of divine influence (and thus artificial, as languages go). It almost certainly behooves the Blessed Pantheon to have some form of standard language to better unify their followers, especially as Aasimar likely come from all different races anyway. Conversely, the Ruinous Powers forcing a common language on their followers would allow for more entertaining infighting, as everyone can understand each other.
Dark Eldarin and Elven represent internal dialects of Eldarin that developed into proper languages once their speakers split from the main fleet, due to their particular slang and idioms no longer being able to influence (or be influenced by) other speakers of the main language. Further, we can add to this Kwak's theory that Dark Eldarin was influenced by another language in the Webway, while Elven may have simply lost a great deal of jargon related to space travel that was no longer necessary to a race that didn't live exclusively in space-bound ships. Eldarin itself was probably an artificial language, while the other two developed.
Draconic is the language of dragons, obviously, and thus carries connotations of power and prestige. Dragonborn speak it to honor their forebears, Kobolds speak it to make themselves sound more impressive. Dragons being prideful beasts, they would likely see it as their own creation regardless of whether the Syrne "programmed" it with them or not, and would likely be very slow to affect change within its grammar or word structures. Thus, a speaker of Draconic in the present day could well be able to perfectly translate a thousand-word tablet from the War in Heaven.
Halfling is... uh... have you ever tried listening to a group of children who all know each other, that you've never been part of? How they just seem to make up words out of nothing that seem to have meaning exclusively to them? That's probably the response any other basher would have to hearing Halfling. Developed language.
Human language we should be familiar with. Presumably by 40k we're assumed to have peaceably settled every conflict within our own biosphere and developed a unified one. Likely we all sound like rednecks on the Wheel, though.
Orkish is easy, all you do is point and grunt. More seriously, I see it as something like how warforged are recommended to speak in D&D3... the vast over-majority of all words in the language are related to fighting, weapons, fighting, armor, fighting, ammunition, fighting, warfare, and fighting. This was likely an artificial language, at least for the first generation of Orks.
Squat really has no reason to not be a developed language. I imagine lots of harsh consonants and rough diphthongs here. It may also just be the Dorf Fort talking, but Squats probably have a more alien mindset with regard to their priorities... their beer is also food, for Moradin's sake.
Tau are thought to be developed from grazing bovines... once again, a developed language, based on the mindset of an animal removed from the primate order. It's probably also rigidly caste-locked, with certain words only taught for use by certain castes... the reason Tau don't talk back to Ethereals? They literally don't know how. On a related note, outsiders that speak Tau usually speak in the Fire or Water caste.
Thri-Kreen and Kenku are both languages whose native speakers would have vastly different speaking apparatus from ours. Kreen would come off as lots of clicks and whistles, with the occasional rasping of limbs; while a Human or any other could certainly learn the "clicks and whistles" part, and probably use sandpaper or some other tool to approximate the rest, we'd definitely sound like rubes to a Kreen. Kenku would almost literally be birdsong, a completely tonal language. Both are naturally developed.
Syrneth could very well be the Ur-Language, one with many, many ultra-specific words for every possible permutation of a concept, object, or action, that when pieced together with proper syntax states one thing that cannot possibly mean anything else. What makes this problematic is, of course, that there are so many things in the universe, and we have so many idiomatic languages that we assume Syrneth is also idiomatic... which is why actual speakers of the language are so rare.
Finally, the language of Spirits must be considered that it was born in the Umbra... where reality begins to give way to possibility. The common "language" of Spirits is, to me, one of abstract thoughts and impressions... there are no forms indicating certainty, no perfect verb tenses. Spirits share one universal language because they all understand these impressions with a reasonable degree of certainty.
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Kwak
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Jan 28 2016, 02:53 PM
Post #39
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Sous Chef
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- Kwak
- Jan 27 2016, 11:32 PM
List of Languages and Speakers Trade Not Youma
Celestial Aasimar
Dark Eldarin Dark Eldarin
Draconic Dragons, Dragonborn, Kobolds
Eldarin Eldarin, Slugs
Elven Elves, Dryads
Gnomish Gnomes
Halfling Halfling
Human Humans
Orkish Orks
Squat Squats
Tau Tau, Kroot, etc.
Abyssal Tieflings, Dusklings
Kenku Kenku
Thri-Kreen Thri-Kreen
Spirits Dryads, Werewolves, Faries, Sages, Summoners, Youma
Syrneth Atlanteans
Binary Tech-priests, Warforged
Arachne Arachne
Catfolk Catfolk
Unseelie Dullahan
Gith Githyanki, Giztherai
Goblin Goblins
B-ball Vernacular Ballers
Giant Goliaths
Cthonic Ikthys
Kython Kythons
Laika Laika
Limulian Limulians
Saurian Lizardmen
Taurian Minotaurs
Ophidian Ophidians
C'tan Sphinxes, Mobians
Equestrian Unicorns
Simian Vanara
Clawspeak Who Knows?
Any One Extra Kenku, Sphinxes, Youma Key findings:
- There are, in fact, 35 spoken languages in the 3 DtD books.
- Of those languages, only 10 - Trade, Draconic, Eldarin, Elven, Tau, Abyssal, Spirits, Binary, Gith, C'tan - are spoken by more than one race.
- Of those 10, Spirit-tongue/Sprits comes out as the closest thing (besides trade) to a lingua franca, being spoken by 3 races, 2 exalts, and 1 class.
- On the opposite extreme, nobody speaks Clawspeak - It just pops up in the feat list as a weird example.
- Book 1 introduces 16 languages, Book 2 brings in 3 more, and Book 3 currently adds 17. So we aren't quite doubling the languages at this point, but it's getting pretty close.
Updated the first post, now working on listing some key suggestions/discussions so far
Edited by Kwak, Jan 28 2016, 02:56 PM.
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weredrago2
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Jan 28 2016, 02:58 PM
Post #40
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He Who Posts Too Much
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Instead of having Sphinxes and Mobians speak Modronese, you could just give them 'any other'. Mobians are constantly travelling, so it makes sense they would have a language relevant to their specific situation.
Speaking of Sphinxes, why do they have 3 languages? Is there a precedent?
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