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Obama's Health Care Bill Passes
Topic Started: Mar 21 2010, 10:58 PM (1,111 Views)
Byron
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Apparently a Geometric Array...
This is exactly what it sounds like.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/artic...jectid=10633600

I was supportive of the bill and despite being a Canadian I was hoping for this outcome. Seeing all of the problems it's caused over the past few months, such as the massive amount of public oposition to it and the loss of support for the Obama Administration, I can't help but feel like this outcome wasn't worth the fight.

So, what does everyone here think of the passing of Health Care Reform?
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
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Gauntlet101010
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In principal I'm for it. Although I can't put that into real full-backed support since I know extremely little about the whole thing.
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ScorpioTHK
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Byron,Mar 21 2010
10:58 PM
Seeing all of the problems it's caused over the past few months, such as the massive amount of public oposition to it and the loss of support for the Obama Administration, I can't help but feel like this outcome was worth the fight.

And said massive opposition has just been gracefully flushed down the can.

Seriously though, I'm glad the bill passed. Now we have one less ginormous issue and a lot less protesters and protests to worry about.

Though the worst that will happen is that we get thousands of people whining about their futile struggle. Oh, and Rush Limbaugh leaves the country. He said so himself.
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Proto Stryker
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That attention whore is going to sit in his little booth and bitch about it 'till the day he dies, but he's not going anywhere.

I really don't know at this point how to feel. I am for reform, but I don't think this bill is the way to go about it. For some reason, I feel a major issue like this should be put to the people, but that's not exactly how politics works. Yeah, health care is pretty messed up in America, but I simply felt that this would do more harm than good.

We shall see, but if this bill fails in practice, I have a feeling it will end Obama's re-election hopes.
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Gauntlet101010
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Proto Stryker,Mar 22 2010
05:23 AM
That attention whore is going to sit in his little booth and bitch about it 'till the day he dies, but he's not going anywhere.

I really don't know at this point how to feel. I am for reform, but I don't think this bill is the way to go about it. For some reason, I feel a major issue like this should be put to the people, but that's not exactly how politics works. Yeah, health care is pretty messed up in America, but I simply felt that this would do more harm than good.

We shall see, but if this bill fails in practice, I have a feeling it will end Obama's re-election hopes.

It's not like they can wave a magic wand and enact the bill. It'll take a bit of time before this can be called a success or failure.
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IcyRose
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On principle, I supported the bill, but being a New Zealander and not really familiar with the US healthcare system, I didn't really get what all the fuss was about opposing it.

Really, the way it sounded to me was it was going to basically be a similar healthcare system to what we have here which I have no complaint about. I don't understand what's wrong with free/cheap healthcare for the public. I mean if you're in a low-income budget and get sick, you don't want to have to pay a ludicrious sum of money to see a doctor or get health insurance which would cover it. Because chances are you can't afford it. Even if you are getting what you pay for and the healthcare isn't as good as what a private doctor should provide, I'd rather have cheap healthcare than healthcare at all.

But ask I stated earlier, I don't really have the knowledge of the US healthcare system to properly debate the topic. I am merely just expressing my thoughts from what little I know about the topic

On a random note, I was amused that the news link was from a New Zealand newspaper
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Mad Mags

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Question to you supporters of this thing:

How are we going to pay for this?

Any of you really know? Cause that's what the heart of the protest was all about.

This shit isn't free. Its going to cost us a little now, and a whole lot down the road.

Look...Our federal government is BROKE. It has no cash. It has lots of debt, but no real money to pay for this thing, meaning its going to get paid by taxing the shit outta the private sector, raiding MediCare (which, by the way, just paid for $10,000 in chemotherapy drugs for my mom that we otherwise couldn't have afforded), and taxing all of us HUGELY down the road.

That's the reality. There's no money for this thing.

It was a feel-good measure that was meant to make liberals giddy in the pants, and even they weren't happy with it since it doesn't even have their golden government-run insurance option anymore.

And money is only the tip of the iceberg, folks. There's not enough of a system out there to support this sudden influx of 30 million new patients. Thus, the doctors' workload is extremely overburdened, even more so than it was before (since people seem more interested in getting "computer science" degrees instead of becoming the next generation of doctors). On top of that, there has been nothing done about the very serious problem of frivolous lawsuits, which is a serious threat to the profession, and has had a hand in stunting growth in the field, which it now DESEPERATELY needs now, more than ever.

And, one of the reasons you become a doctor is to make a lotta money. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the money is going to come from somewhere, and that somewhee is the pockets of the taxpayer. The richer you are, the more you'll pay. So, who's going to want to go to school for 12 years, accumulate a fortune in debt, only to have the government be constantly hanging over your head, you can still be sued out of existance for bullshit reasons, AND you'll be forced to work WAY more than any previous generation of doctors, all for less take home pay?

That's what's going to happen. The last wave of health care reform in Canada ended up with a exodus of experienced doctors to the States, setting back the quality of health care over the substantially. And that reform wasn't nearly as big and "grand" as ObamaCare. So, when you hear doctors claim they want to leave the country to practice, its a very viable option for them, especially in India and Costa Rica.

And so, with less experienced doctors to care for us, that brings us the next step- RATIONING of health care. Something that may have taken only days to see a doctor for will soon take weeks, months, or even years, as is possible in Canada. That's the dark child of socialized health care you rarely hear about, but its a reality.

Oh, and by the way, the IRS is in charge of enforcing all of these new rules. Guess that explains why they just bought a truckload of new shotguns only a few months ago. Nobody knew what they were for at the time. Hey, everybody LOVES the IRS, right?

Hey, socialized health crae sounds awesome on paper and in other countries, but they had the infastructure to make it happen- we DON'T. Instead, these douchebags rushed into this thing without all the necessary tweaks, reforms, and groundwork to make this really work, and we're going to suffer for it. BIG TIME. We are- not them. THEY'RE RICH, and they don't really give a fuck about people like you and I- its all about making headlines and legacies in the careers.

I don't think anybody really realizes what's about to happen. I'm shocked that this happened, I really am. I was all for health reform of some sort, but this is a 2,012 lbs. hammer being used to kill a fly.

I am NOT looking forward to the next decade. Its going to be extremely rough for the little guy.
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Gauntlet101010
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Canada's health care was screwed up by a totally different factor than being federally run. The old "common sence revolution" really hurt us.
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IcyRose
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Oh I see, like I said, I didn't have much knowledge on the situation on the US to make a proper debate on the topic. From your rebuttal I can now see why there is a protest against it.

I still think the health reform is technically a good thing, though with the way things are with the current government and how broke it is it probably should have waited to a point when it could have afforded it. Rather it would be good in a future but not now. Which really does suck.
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Regulus
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I wish I could have been there so I could backhand Pelosi for talking about this like we just freed the slaves. It pretty much proves that the only thing they cared about was making the news and padding their political resume. Except what is it going to do for them? They've already seen on a country-wide scale that we hate this idea, and they passed it anyway, with MARGINAL support. Such sweeping changes to the US infrastructure should not be voted in just barely. I only hope that this gets repealed before the true magnitude of this clusterfuck bears down on us.
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Mad Mags

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Regulus,Mar 22 2010
03:00 PM
I wish I could have been there so I could backhand Pelosi for talking about this like we just freed the slaves. It pretty much proves that the only thing they cared about was making the news and padding their political resume. Except what is it going to do for them? They've already seen on a country-wide scale that we hate this idea, and they passed it anyway, with MARGINAL support. Such sweeping changes to the US infrastructure should not be voted in just barely. I only hope that this gets repealed before the true magnitude of this clusterfuck bears down on us.

The Dems realized some time last year that no matter how this thing ended, they'd be shown the door in 2010, so they figured they may as well have something to show for it. Its especially true when they think that some voodoo is going to somehow make this all work in time for 2012 and beyond, and that they'll once again be regarded as heroes and voted back in by an overwheming margin.

I don't see that happening.

Tennessee and Mass. already have a pared down version of a universal health care system exclusive to their states. The result? Overwheming losses, backlogs, and a system so fucked up it'll take them years to dig themselves out of it and makes sense of what the hell happened.

Again, good idea on paper, but poorly executed and shattered by harsh reality. Perfect plans are only perfect until they're enacted, and then...Not so perfect. The weirdest part is that Mass's health care disaster was implemented by Republican governor Mitt Romney, proving that this is a bad idea no matter what party tries to sell it.

There are some useful things in this bill, and that should be noted. Finally, the insurance industry begins to be tamed. No more "pre-existing conditions", no more kicking people off policies once they get "too sick", and no more out of control premiums. But, I have to wonder if the insurance industry will find loopholes around these clauses, OR, will they simply exit the market completely, creating the potential for monopolies, or worse yet, forcing the government to offer its own insurance plan down the road when the debt is at its worst.

Thing is, that could have been addressed seperately from all of this other shit, and helped lay the ground work for a far more effective, better planned system, instead of this rush-job nightmare paid for with phantom dollars.

Another thing that irks me is that Obama proposed to help pay for this by eliminating waste and redundancy in the current health care syste. Aside from the fuzzy numbers he produced, I have to ask; why didn't you just do that before? It had to happen one way or another, so why attach it to such a monster that everyone hates? In the hopes that some slivers of good would obscure the true shittiness of the rest of the bill?

I believe that individual states are now the best chance we have against fighting this monster. There's already talk about civil suits and Supreme Court cases, accusing the federal government of, for the first time ever, requiring human beings to buy a product, that being health insurance, whether they need it or not. It could possibly be overturned, at least on the state level.
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Proto Stryker
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Quote:
 
(since people seem more interested in getting "computer science" degrees instead of becoming the next generation of doctors)


Hey, fuck you. >:O
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Proto Stryker,Mar 22 2010
07:34 PM
Quote:
 
(since people seem more interested in getting "computer science" degrees instead of becoming the next generation of doctors)


Hey, fuck you. >:O

We have enough of youse! Become a doctor and get raped for my benefit!
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Rareitor
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Big Boss,Mar 22 2010
07:05 PM
Proto Stryker,Mar 22 2010
07:34 PM
Quote:
 
(since people seem more interested in getting "computer science" degrees instead of becoming the next generation of doctors)


Hey, fuck you. >:O

We have enough of youse! Become a doctor and get raped for my benefit!

My father, mother, uncle, sister, sister's mother, sister's stepfather, cousin and most, if not all, of their colleagues would beg to differ >:D
The man in the box.
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Proto Stryker
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Wait, so are they doctors or computer science junkies? You lost me! At any rate, going the CS route is like striking a gold mine around here. Hardly any computer techs that aren't 50+ where I live, so I should be sitting pretty. Me and my future wife, for that matter, since she's doubling in Math and CS.
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Mad Mags

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Proto Stryker,Mar 23 2010
07:49 AM
Wait, so are they doctors or computer science junkies? You lost me! At any rate, going the CS route is like striking a gold mine around here. Hardly any computer techs that aren't 50+ where I live, so I should be sitting pretty. Me and my future wife, for that matter, since she's doubling in Math and CS.

Looks like we in Michigan now know where to off load some of these CS people that are unable to find work...
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Regulus
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Big Boss,Mar 23 2010
02:26 PM
Proto Stryker,Mar 23 2010
07:49 AM
Wait, so are they doctors or computer science junkies? You lost me! At any rate, going the CS route is like striking a gold mine around here. Hardly any computer techs that aren't 50+ where I live, so I should be sitting pretty. Me and my future wife, for that matter, since she's doubling in Math and CS.

Looks like we in Michigan now know where to off load some of these CS people that are unable to find work...

In our defense, Rich, would you trust ANY of us here with a scalpel?
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Mad Mags

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Regulus,Mar 23 2010
04:12 PM
Big Boss,Mar 23 2010
02:26 PM
Proto Stryker,Mar 23 2010
07:49 AM
Wait, so are they doctors or computer science junkies? You lost me! At any rate, going the CS route is like striking a gold mine around here. Hardly any computer techs that aren't 50+ where I live, so I should be sitting pretty. Me and my future wife, for that matter, since she's doubling in Math and CS.

Looks like we in Michigan now know where to off load some of these CS people that are unable to find work...

In our defense, Rich, would you trust ANY of us here with a scalpel?

...You've got a point.

Hell, I barely trust most of you guys with a keyboard!
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Mad Mags

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Just read Ron Paul's thoughts on this:

Quote:
 
Following months of heated public debate and aggressive closed-door negotiations, Congress finally cast a historic vote on healthcare late Sunday evening. It was truly a sad weekend on the House floor as we witnessed further dismantling of the Constitution, disregard of the will of the people, explosive expansion of the reach of government, unprecedented corporate favoritism, and the impending end of quality healthcare as we know it.

Those in favor of this bill touted their good intentions of ensuring quality healthcare for all Americans, as if those of us against the bill are against good medical care. They cite fanciful statistics of deficit reduction, while simultaneously planning to expand the already struggling medical welfare programs we currently have. They somehow think that healthcare in this country will be improved by swelling our welfare rolls and cutting reimbursement payments to doctors who are already losing money. It is estimated that thousands of doctors will be economically forced out of the profession should this government fuzzy math actually try to become healthcare reality. No one has thought to ask what good mandatory health insurance will be if people can’t find a doctor.

Legislative hopes and dreams don’t always stand up well against economic realities.

Frustratingly, this legislation does not deal at all with the real reasons access to healthcare is a struggle for so many – the astronomical costs. If tort reform was seriously discussed, if the massive regulatory burden on healthcare was reduced and reformed, if the free market was allowed to function and apply downward pressure on healthcare costs as it does with everything else, perhaps people wouldn’t be so beholden to insurance companies in the first place. If costs were lowered, more people could simply pay for what they need out of pocket, as they were able to do before government got so involved. Instead, in the name of going after greedy insurance companies, the federal government is going to make people even more beholden to them by mandating that everyone buy their product! Hefty fines are due from anyone found to have committed the heinous crime of not being a customer of a health insurance company. We will need to hire some 16,500 new IRS agents to police compliance with all these new mandates and administer various fines. So in government terms, this is also a jobs bill. Never mind that this program is also likely to cost the private sector some 5 million jobs.

Of course, the most troubling aspect of this bill is that it is so blatantly unconstitutional and contrary to the ideals of liberty. Nowhere in the constitution is there anything approaching authority for the Federal government to do any of this. The founders would have been horrified at the idea of government forcing citizens to become consumers of a particular product from certain government approved companies. 38 states are said to already be preparing legal and constitutional challenges to this legislation, and if the courts stand by their oaths, they will win. Protecting the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, should be the court’s responsibility. Citizens have a responsibility over their own life, but they also have the liberty to choose how they will live and protect their lives. Healthcare choices are a part of liberty, another part that is being stripped away. Government interference in healthcare has already infringed on choices available to people, but rather than getting out of the way, it is entrenching itself, and its corporatist cronies, even more deeply.


My sentiments exactly, Mr Paul. If you run in 2012, I'll vote for you again.[/color]
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Letra
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Wow. Here in Australia I can just take my recpit from a visit to the doctor down to a medicare office and they'll give me back some [More than half, at the very least] of my money. I never appreciated how simple of a system that was before now.
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Proto Stryker
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There's an easy way to go about it, but we've got so many damned groups jumping to get some of the money out of the system that it's become muddied up. The whole thing's ridiculous, and I just want to see something that works.
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Letra,Mar 24 2010
04:13 AM
Wow. Here in Australia I can just take my recpit from a visit to the doctor down to a medicare office and they'll give me back some [More than half, at the very least] of my money. I never appreciated how simple of a system that was before now.

Y'know, that's not really all that good of a deal.

For all the bashing our health care system has received lately, here's a real world example that my family just went through to put thngs in perspective.

My mom began radiation therapy for her brain tumor on Monday this week, since it was recently discovered that had become active again after 2 years of quiet. At the same time, the docs wanted to prescribe a full dosage of Temodar, a stay-at-home chemotherapy drug she was on a few years ago and had some good luck with it then. The purpose of the Temodar this time around is to amplify the effects of the radiation treatment to get the most out of it.

Temodar is very expensive. Like, $100 a pill-type of expensive, and one pill a day for two months can easily wipe out a family's finances. Luckily, mom is on MediCare, which picked up 80% of the tab, which would have been $10,000. She also has "doughnut hole" insurance through Blue Cross/ Blue Shield, which is a type of extra insurance that can pick up the remaining 20%.

As a result, mom didn't have to pay a cent of that $10,000.

That's not a lie, or exagerration- its what really happened. It took some phone calls to get the right answers, but if you're not a complete dumbass and you're willing to do some research on insurance, you can really save your ass.

The opposite happened with me, where I happened to be in between insurance policies when I was struck with a near-fatal lung condition back in 2005. I ended up with a $21,000 bill, and I paid back every single dime. I wasn't expecting to get away with getting anything for free, and I didn't. But, my surgeon actualy cut me some slack, and let me keep $1,000. I am now paid back in full as of December 2009.

So, you see, the system, which I am VERY familiar with, had its limitations, but it was managable. All it needed was some tweaking in order to help get the insurance industry under control- not a huge, ginormous bill of doom that effectively fucks up everything.
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Letra
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Don't listen to Avi! Use all the darkchips you want.
Keep in mind that perscription medication is subsidized here. A bottle of pills that in reality costs $2000 can be picked up at the local drug store for $10. I'm not too sure about operations. Thankfully I've never needed more than a tooth pulled on that front.

That isn't too much of an exageration either. A buddy of mine has MS, needs Betafuron [I bet I spelled that horribly wrong. I'm good at that.] It costs an arm and a leg, but they get it for about $5.

A lot of doctors in the area "Bulk Bill" too. Basicly, they charge a little bit less and medicare gives back all of your money. It's just a matter of finding a doctor that actually wants to help people, rather than one that's in it entirely for the money.
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Mad Mags

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How's that hope and change working out for you?

Over here, here's what's up.

We got mom's radiation bill. BEFORE MediCare and insurance, the bill was $75,000.

SEVENTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

After insurance and MediCare? No more than $2,000 out of my parents' pockets, and that's questionable right now, since the insurance might pick that up, too.

And this is almost all under the "old" system, prior to ObamaCare.

However, the difference here is that the cost of insurance went up. While the health care bill established that rates couldn't be jacked up, that part of the bill wasn't immediate, and won't take effect until later. Therefore, in preperation of this change, almost the entire health insurance industry has been busy jacking up rates BEFORE this part of the bill takes effect. The lone exception seems to be Blue Cross Blue Shield, which is a non-profit insurer, and has to play by different rules.

A friend of mine just found out his insurance premiums went up a whopping 30% for next year. I've never heard of that much of an increase so fast.

So, those of you on private insurance, watch out.

Those of you whose insurance is provided wholly or partly through your employer, be aware that it might be cheaper for your employer to axe your coverage and pay a penalty every year instead of paying for your insurance. You'd then have to get insurance independantly, since you are now legally obligated to under this bill, and you're now stuck with having to contend with these roided up premiums.

How? How in the hell was this supposed to save me money again?

Meanwhile, I still don't know what the plan is as far as paying for this new system is concerned. The only way I see it as a possibility is if taxes are raised, and not by a small amount, either. I don't know about you, but my finances are pretty tight as is. An increase in taxes would make life more...interesting.

You can't just write a check and expect money to materialize from nowhere to save the day at some indistinct point in the future. It HAS to come from somewhere. THAT'S still the scariest part of this "plan"; there is no plan. It really does feel like Obama's plan is:

1. Reform Health Care System whether the stupid masses want to or not.
2. Avoid explaining much of anything afterwards (i.e., count on some sort of issue or disaster to make everyone forget about it).
3. ????
4. HAPPINESS.

Also, the fact that our limited medical infastructure hasn't really been touched yet concerns me. There's fewer incentives for people to become a doctor in this country than ever before. It stands to reason that major changes need to occur in order to fix this dilemna, otherwise we'll be faced with a huge talent void by the time ObamaCare takes full effect at the end of this decade. Huge, HUGE problem. I cannot yell this loud enough.

Again, I was in agreement that our American system needed some tweaks to update it, but what we got instead seems even more broken and illogical. It just doesn't make any sense once you get passed the feel-good term "reform". Just looking at Tennessee and Mass.'s current systems is genuinely frightening. It looks like someone took Canada's system, mated it with England's hopelessly broken system, and beat the offspring with baseball bats until it was severely mentally damaged.

Shit's unreal, man.
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Floofie
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Obama WILL be the death of us all. I'm telling you, before his term ends all of America will have gone to hell.

I want X for president. D:
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Byron
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Apparently a Geometric Array...
While I do give Obama and the Democrats credit for trying to solve some of Americas problems, I get the disdinct impression that this bill was a huge mistake due to opposition against it and the mess that was left over when the parts that weren't struck down got throw congress or whatever.

Also, the part with the insurence companies jacking up rates strikes me as an example of blatent corperate greed, and it's hard to see how anyone wouldn't be upset about it. As for the way to pay for the plan, I think that letting the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire would help pay for some of it, but whether or not this will actually happen has yet to be seen.

Finally, I notice that you dissed my health care system. I will say that for all it's flaws, I am happy with it and wouldn't trade it for any other system in the world. Still, I get upset when people complain about the lack of funding while complaining about new taxes; you can have low taxes or high quality social services (including public health care), but unless parliment has a money tree growing in the main hall then it's impossible to have both.

Of course, this is just me as a Canadian looking at the situation in the US through my personal filter. Feel free to disagree with me.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
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Byron,Aug 28 2010
07:54 PM
While I do give Obama and the Democrats credit for trying to solve some of Americas problems, I get the disdinct impression that this bill was a huge mistake due to opposition against it and the mess that was left over when the parts that weren't struck down got throw congress or whatever.

Also, the part with the insurence companies jacking up rates strikes me as an example of blatent corperate greed, and it's hard to see how anyone wouldn't be upset about it. As for the way to pay for the plan, I think that letting the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire would help pay for some of it, but whether or not this will actually happen has yet to be seen.

Finally, I notice that you dissed my health care system. I will say that for all it's flaws, I am happy with it and wouldn't trade it for any other system in the world. Still, I get upset when people complain about the lack of funding while complaining about new taxes; you can have low taxes or high quality social services (including public health care), but unless parliment has a money tree growing in the main hall then it's impossible to have both.

Of course, this is just me as a Canadian looking at the situation in the US through my personal filter. Feel free to disagree with me.

I'm not directly dissing the Canadian system. If it works for you guys, great. Take note that the only system in my "beaten retarded baby" analogy that I explicitly call stupid is the English system, which is bankrupt due to shitty planning on their part, hence why they're moving back to a free-market-based system.

That's exactly what we have to look forward to here in the States, best case scenario. Canada implimented their system via changes over time, rather than a massive socialized-type change to a free-market-based system. The planning just isn't there. America's system just doesn't jive with the type of system Obama and the libs want.

Corporate greed or not, it was a major loophole that the assholes on Capitol Hill failed to close, even with their 2,012 page document. Its an example of crappy planning. I also cannot entirely fault the insurance industry for taking advantage of this loophole, since they don't stand to make much money off of this new system, and without the ability to change rates in the future (taking into account inflation), they had to do something to ensure their own stability for the long-term future. This is especially true now that 30 million people have just been added to their system.

Even if you start taxing the rich even more, that still won't solve the problem. Afterall, they're rich; if they don't like it here, they'll just leave. Or they'll find ways to disguise their wealth (Swiss or Bahaman bank accounts, illegal means, etc). You can't rely on a single caste of people to support everyone.

Bottom line is that they'll eventually have to raise taxes for everyone. And when that happens, holy shit. Watch the fun begin!

I'm betting that Obama realizes this, but he'll be long out of office when they actually are forced to raise 'em. Maybe he's counting on "solving" some other hot-button issue during his presidency to disguise this fact.

I don't get this guy. He's not an idiot, but he seems very arrogant and stubborn. As an American, he's my president, whether I voted for him or not, so I have a vested interest in wanting him to succeed. If he fails, the whole country suffers, such as the case now, where we're suffering from the after effects of the Clinton-era NAFTA treaty, Bush's miserable track record, and even Reaganomics. All of these guys relied on "make it better now" ideas that ended up snowballing into this economic maelstrom we're currently in.

Obama, to me, seems to be making many of the same mistakes- "make it better now and let the next guy worry about the after-effects". The next guy that gets in office is going to have to make sense of it all and be a long-term planner-type, rather than some glory hound concerned about his legacy. That's what we need...but I doubt that's what we'll get. Chances are, Obama will be re-elected (probably by a narrow margin), and his successor will probably be a Republican. I personally don't buy into the whole party concept anymore, so I don't care what labels these guys put on themselves. I just want someone intelligent, patient, and down-to-Earth running this country. Obama has one of those qualities.
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Byron
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Apparently a Geometric Array...
I apologize for bumping up this topic, but here is yet another new development in the Health Care debacle.

You can find it at this site.

After finding out about this, I can see why people are so cynical about the Health Care reforms. I guess it's true that every new bill has unintended consiquences.

My other forum, which I found this news article on, didn't take it too well. What do you guys think?
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
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Mad Mags

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That's definitely not good.

I'd say that's pretty much the exact opposite of the desired effect Obama had in mind. But really, how can he go and condemn these insurance businesses? We've already established that they're pretty evil and soulless, so that's nothing new. They're a business. They want money. They're not doing it because it makes them feel all warm and squishy inside.

If they find that some new aspect is gonna cost them a shit ton of money, then you better believe they'll exploit every loophole they can find. There's gotta be hundreds in that monstrous 2,000 page bill that nobody read.

It again boils down to infrastructure. Things would have gone way more smoothly if some real planning had been made, instead of those douchebag politicians proclaiming themselves to be heroes of the American people by rushing through that part of the process to give us a really fucked up monster.

And it doesn't just stop at children. All over the States, independent businesses are cutting off their health care benefits, opting to pay a yearly penalty since it turns out paying the penalty is cheaper than providing a costly health plan. Can't blame them, since health care costs are still sky rocketing, and many have gone out of business in the past just because of the cost of benefits. I need only point at GM and their legacy costs as my proof.
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Mad Mags

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/2...at-does-it-mean

Guess Virginia is for more than just lovers. It's also home to a bunch of people who really don't like this bill.

Today, they managed a huge victory against the bill, specifically a part of it that I personally had a major problem with. You know, the part where the government made it illegal to not have health insurance, otherwise you'd have to pay a fine every year? The part that mandated US citizens now MUST buy a product? You know, the illegal part?

I wonder if Pelosi is starting to realize that just because the bill was passed that people wouldn't bother to read it. Remember her famous "you'll have to pass it to find out what's in it" line? I'm glad its being rubbed in her stupid, space cadet, smug face.

If nothing else, I'm glad that the core of this bill, the aforementioned unconstitutional mandate, is being singled out. I believe that health insurance is a necessary evil here in America, but I'd like to think I still have a choice in the matter, even going so far as to go without it (which I'll be the first to tell you from personal experience- DON'T).

I'm glad we still have some good guys sitting on the judges' benches.
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