Main Fiction Galleries Nuts & Bolts Forum
Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to ()The Mechanical Maniacs: Undernet. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
More Gitmo info released
Topic Started: Apr 25 2011, 09:41 AM (337 Views)
Gauntlet101010
Member Avatar
MM3: Shadowman
Admin
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/classified-files-...-042659675.html

I gotta admit, some of this info makes me think having these guys at Guantanimo Bay was a good idea. Had some of this been released a few years ago I don't think public perception of the place would be nearly as bad as it is now.

Although the human rights abuses are still a black eye on the US. I don't understand why there can't be a speedy trial for these people. Just sentence them all already.
Posted Image
MM3: Mechanical Maniacs
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
If it were up to me, I'd sentence them all behind the prison with a box of .45s. Problem solved. No more worrying about breakouts or transportation problems or jihad attacks during the inevitable joke of a trial. The terrorists are going to attack us anyways, so why waste valuable resources guarding these fucks? No more torture, no more guard duty, no more Gitmo.

Scum is scum. What I don't get is why we continue to play these stupid little games when we all know what the outcome is going to be. Its such a ridiculous sham that's being put on in order to maintain a "civilized" face.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
I guess it's because of a need to have a moral high ground over the terrorists. Because if we just execute them, then we've essentially lowered ourselves to their level and only proved to their followers that we are as horrible and evil as they always thought we were.

At the end of the day, and despite the atrocities they've committed, they are still human beings and should be treated as such, even if we do 'know what the outcome is going to be'.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
WikiLeaks can't leak what isn't documented...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
And that's part of the problem with dealing with these situations.

I mean, we have to ask ourselves how much stuff is happening in Gitmo that isn't being documented due to the questionable legality of the acts.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
If that bothers you, you probably wouldn't want to think about all of the awesomely technically-illegal stuff the CIA has been doing for years behind closed doors, not just in Gitmo, but all around the world. And for decades. Think "Gulf of Tonkin".

But ask yourself this; what's more immoral- killing terrorists without a trial or letting African tyrants continue to slaughter entire villages without so much as a single NATO or US soldier setting foot on the scene to put a stop to it, simply because they don't have any resources that we care about? Not that I'm advocating playing world police by any means, but I'm illustrating a point; that when you get right down to it, the US has no real moral high ground. We just have a better spin machine than they do.

And all of these loud mouth bleeding hearts? They're not losing sleep over Sheikh Mohammad getting water boarded somewhere in Cuba. Give me a fuckin' break. Its trendy to be compassionate. Gets them attention. Does anybody actually give a rat's ass about some terrorist's rights even after he's renounced them? No. They care because they've been programmed by their wine-swilling douchebag friends to "care". We're talking about the exact opposite end of the spectrum from those Westboro assholes. The ones that pretend to be shocked in order to gain attention, rather than causing said shock to, guess what, get attention. I see very little difference, save for one is seen as more socially acceptable by the masses.

None of those terrorists give a rat's ass about a trial. That's exactly the sort of thing they're fighting against! They shit on the ACLU, the Constitution, the Geneva Convention, and anyone they've ever killed or even thought about killing.
Let loose, they'd continue to murder and maim until they stopped wasting oxygen. I feel NOTHING towards them or their rights. If someone wants to hold a grudge against me for that, then that's their problem.

So, again, give me a box of ammo and I'll end the situation very quickly and easily. I'll even do it painlessly so the fake compassionate types can sleep well that night. And it doesn't even have to be good ammo, either.

Or, we let the CIA simply make it disappear. That's what they do best. NOBODY would give a damn one way or another if it weren't in the news. You let this story drop off Google's first page of search results, and that very minute the situation is forgotten about by all that matter. Then its right back to shoving Ho-Hos into our morbidly obese mouths. "Shut up! Idol's on!"

And if the rest of the world gets riled up about it, then tell them to hold on. Some sort of riot or natural disaster will be by any minute to distract them. Maybe we can drag G.W. Bush's hurricane machine out of retirement and point it towards Europe.

Either way, I'll sleep soundly, provided insomnia gives me a reprieve.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
I guess I can admit that I don't care about all of those things. Sometimes it hard to do so when the abuse is so far away from us here in the first world. I guess I could be more ashamed of myself, but at the same time I don't know if it's possible for me to solve all the problems of the world, much less know and care about all of them.

Maybe the whole point is to do what you can and live your life the best as possible.

Or maybe I'm just spewing philosophical bullshit, I have no idea what I'm doing anymore.

I apologize for that, then.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
There's nothing to be ashamed of. Not even Mother Theresa was capable of deeply caring about every single plight in the world, so how can we be expected to actually give a shit about the rights of murderous scum that have renounced civilization and nations altogether? Hard to care about people like that.

I say worry about your own rights before anyone else's.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
Personally, I'd argue for supporting everyone's rights, mainly because if other people lose their rights then your rights could be next on the chopping block.

I guess it's hard to argue for the rights of avowed terrorists, especially given the causes they back. Still, I stand by my previous notions and in any case I still expect them to be punished severely for their actions.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
Byron,Apr 25 2011
09:18 PM
Personally, I'd argue for supporting everyone's rights, mainly because if other people lose their rights then your rights could be next on the chopping block.


That's not a bad philosophy to adhere to. It does have its limitations, though. And as Harry Callahan said in Magnum Force, "man's got to know his limitations".

I support many rights groups that don't directly affect me, but I have enough peripheral vision to realize that my rights may be in danger if I don't support them. With terrorists, though, there's really very little danger involved with simply...ending them. There's way more danger involved simply keeping them around, and really so very little to gain by humoring the rest of the world with a mock trial. Even after the trial, they'll be sitting around in some cell somewhere, absorbing huge amounts of money just for security, and they'll always be a target for other jihadists to break out or just bomb the prison to finish his martyrdom.

Last year, when the talk of closing Gitmo was at its fervor, there was talk of moving them to a recently closed prison in the northern part of the lower Michigan peninsula. The idea was eventually shot down over high cost and security reasons.

Of course that brings up the point that nobody in their right mind actually wants to house these assholes. Anybody in Canada want to take them off our hands?

Didn't think so.

Or, we could do it my way. Cost of a bullet, and a little man power to dig a grave. Or just dump their asses into the ocean.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
But wouldn't killing them without remorse only make them into martyrs for their warped view of religon?
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
By that same warped view, simply holding them in our system is a form of martyrdom. There's no winning with these assholes, so you may as well keep from fawning over this crap and simply get the inevitable over with.

This is where the term "fog of war" comes into play.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
While I'm not likely to move you from your position, I hope that you at least understand why I find it a bit troubling.

In any case, the question now is how these documents will influence public opinion of Gitmo.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
They probably won't. At least, not enough to actually do anything one way or another. Oh, there'll be some bitching from the usual groups, but it'll eventually get swept under the rug. After all, there's a royal wedding happening soon! Ain't that somethin'?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byron
Member Avatar
Apparently a Geometric Array...
Despite being a member of a commonwealth country, I really don't care about that wedding.

I mean, it's just a wedding.
> I spend quite a bit of time here nowadays. Sorry for any inconvenience...
> I also have a blog now!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Mags

Admin
I don't either. I was trying to insinuate that its just one big distraction for the rest of the world to be drawn to compared to stuff like Gitmo and terrorism.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gauntlet101010
Member Avatar
MM3: Shadowman
Admin
Well, it did change my mind somewhat. You may recall I was staunchly for shutting it down, however these docs do show that there's good reasons to want these guys still shut away.

However, I still think it's ridiculous that there hasn't been a trial for most of these guys. It's been so long already.
Posted Image
MM3: Mechanical Maniacs
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Undersquare · Next Topic »
Add Reply