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| What Is Nikki Saying; In the art room | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 19 2006, 01:24 PM (2,778 Views) | |
| critter | Jul 19 2006, 01:24 PM Post #1 |
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Hi, you guys know the scene where Helen follows Nikki into the unused art room and they kiss and then Nikki starts to unbutton Helen's blouse and tells her it is safe there. Helen says it's not about that and Nikki says something I can't figure out. I hear" So what are you going to offer me then?" but I really don't have a clue. Anyone know? And go ahead and laugh if I have it totally wrong:) And I apologize if this has been asked before but I haven't been able to read all the threads:) Critter |
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| Lisa289 | Jul 19 2006, 01:49 PM Post #2 |
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Welsh Bad Girl
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Nikki says, "What, you gone off me then?" |
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| critter | Jul 19 2006, 09:55 PM Post #3 |
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Does that mean, "So are you going to turn me down" ie we are not going to have any hanky panky? |
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| abzug | Jul 19 2006, 09:57 PM Post #4 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I think a more accurate translation into American would be: Are you not attracted to/interested in me anymore? But I've been known to be wrong on these things.... |
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| flump | Jul 19 2006, 10:17 PM Post #5 |
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Well done Abzug! Your English/American translation is spot on!
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| abzug | Jul 20 2006, 01:15 AM Post #6 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Yay! So I'm forgiven for not knowing what a no-hoper is?
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| Lisa289 | Jul 20 2006, 01:55 PM Post #7 |
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Totally forgiven... A no-hoper is someone who basically has no hope....or to put it another way, they have no faith in themselves. In the case of Helen calling Nikki a no-hoper, she's pointing out that Nikki has no faith in herself because Nikki was so against the idea of an appeal, saying "it's a waste of time innit". |
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| critter | Jul 20 2006, 02:28 PM Post #8 |
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Thanks for the translation! Wow, that really makes a difference in how I interpret that scene. I thought"What are you going to offer me,then?" was a little tacky...LOL! But then Nikki can be a little blatant at times, but in a good way. ha Like when she accuses Helen of wanting to stick her tongue down her throat. That really caught me off guard but then she was very hurt and angry and certainly wasn't using her phrasing to be a turn-on;) But in the scene in the library what I thought she said didn't fit. Now, I like that she is kind of kidding (and maybe a tad bit serious based on the conversation that they have in a few minutes) that Helen is no longer attracted to her. She is still insecure, after all it is new ground and Helen has also just asked her if she is a "cold-blooded" murderer, which btw, I don't think Helen ever truly believed to be the case. If anything, she is more convinced than ever she is going to get Nikki out of that prison because of the injustice of it all. Plus, like I know we have all experienced, Nikki is tired of just talking;) But it was a conversation that needed to be said. Both made some really good points about what was happening to them emotionally that the other needed to hear, mainly about Helen's signposts and Nikki needing to be reassured that Helen wasn't just going through the motions. |
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| abzug | Jul 20 2006, 02:49 PM Post #9 |
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In love with a prisoner
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OK, now I'm confused again! I thought a no-hoper was akin to a loser (do Brits use this word the way Americans do?), someone who isn't intelligent or successful, and has no potential to be either. So it would reflect more what others think of the person, than what the person thinks of themselves. Which was why it was funny for Helen to say that when she sees Nikki in the library reading Henry James, because obviously Nikki is very intelligent, and Helen believes in her potential for success, both inside Larkhall and outside. |
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| ekny | Jul 20 2006, 03:21 PM Post #10 |
In love with a prisoner
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no-hop·er (plural no-hop·ers) noun Definition: U.K. an offensive term that deliberately insults somebody's achievements and likelihood of future success ( insult ) |
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| Lisa289 | Jul 20 2006, 03:57 PM Post #11 |
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i suppose you could look at it both ways.....this is making me look at this scene in a different way now! |
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| campgrrls | Jul 20 2006, 07:16 PM Post #12 |
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We discussed that phrase a bit back in 2000/1 because several women didn't like it and thought it was out of character for Nikki to say that. I know j-j in particular thought it was a very masculine phrase. A no-hoper is definitely a loser and not someone who has no hope or faith in themselves. |
| Carolyn | |
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| abzug | Jul 20 2006, 07:39 PM Post #13 |
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It IS a bit masculine and aggressive, but I always found it fitting for Nikki. She is completely enraged at this point, and has been ever since Helen walked past her coming into Larkhall and pointedly ignored her, not even meeting her eye. She's been trying to get Helen to own up to her desire for a number of episodes by this point (the potting shed, the confrontation scene after the kiss, the meeting in Helen's office when Helen returns from her little vacation), and by this point she's had enough. The more I rewatch these episodes, the more amazed I am at how consistent they are with Nikki's behavior. When it comes to Helen, Nikki is pretty much always reasonable in the first interaction on a given issue, and then the second time is a little less reasonable (ie more frustrated) and by the third time she's finally hit aggressive-rage state. For instance: A. Nikki's jealousy: (1) Slight expression of concern regarding Claire, (2) Why didn't you tell me about your date with Dominic (starting to be upset and angry), and then finally (3) Blowing up and calling Helen a tart after calling and hearing Dominic was at Helen's apartment. B. Femi: (1) Mentions Femi to Helen, expresses her concern, Helen is distracted and says she'll look into it, (2) Gets more insistent with Helen after Femi is beat up, (3) Demands an answer when Femi has been taken to solitary C. Helen's Desire: (1) Apologizes profusely after the potting shed and is then on Best Behavior for at least an episode, (2) Refuses to take the blame after the kiss, (3) Rages at Helen after she doesn't respond to Nikki saying she loves her (this is the whole "Shit Happens" ep). All of which is a really long-winded way of saying that Nikki doesn't just fly off the handle--she tries to deal with difficult situations in a reasonable manner, but once she's passed her patience threshold, beware! |
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| campgrrls | Jul 20 2006, 11:43 PM Post #14 |
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Abzug, I'm with you on the explanation of the motivation for Nikki's frustrated and aggressive behaviour towards Helen. However, I still tend to think that a couple of Nikki's actions and choices of words stretch Nikki's consistency of character right to the edge of believability.I think this is reflected in the amount of fan effort that has gone into explaining Nikki's behaviour in the potting shed scene and in some expressions of dissatisfaction of Nikki's use of the phrases "stick your tongue down my throat" and "two-faced tart". I think part of the reason for this is the BG format of short scenes and fast-paced drama. And this sort of format often has short scenes that end with a punchline. Partly also I think some of the criticism comes from Nikki fans who see her as a feminist and/or lesbian hero. The above phrases and comments don't sit well with some of their feminist perspectives - at least that was certainly the case with j_j's criticism of the "tongue done my throat" line. Both those phrases fit the punchline format as well as showing Nikki's frustration and anger. But I don't believe a real life Nikki would have used the tongue down my throat line in such a way. I think 2-faced tart is just within the realms of believability. However, I also think these phrases and actions work pretty well within the BG dramatic format. Ah looking at those old threads also reminded me that there was some discussion of the art room scene and what was cut or left out. There was discussion about how at the end of one bit of the scene helen's buttons were done up and when it cut back to them later Helen's top button/s were undone. |
| Carolyn | |
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| abzug | Jul 21 2006, 12:45 AM Post #15 |
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In love with a prisoner
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You know, this whole discussion has made me realize that while I consider Nikki to be a feminist, I don't consider her to be a Feminist. Let me explain that a bit more. I think Nikki thinks that men control things, and women get the short end of the stick, and that women should bond together when possible to help eachother, and that women in general are top notch people. However, I don't think she knows (or particularly cares about) the politically correct language of feminism, or would see anything particularly problematic in using language like "two-faced tart." Nikki is someone who tells it like it is, who isn't particularly polished, who says what she means, often without thinking. To me, this means she's apt to not consider the subtle gender oppression which can exist in language, she'll just kind of spout words to get her point across in the most emphatic way possible. And often that might mean she imitates "male" ways of speaking or turns of phrase, because those tend to be the most emphatic aggressive options open to her. |
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2:07 PM Jul 11