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When did Nikki know...?
Topic Started: Jan 29 2007, 08:52 PM (4,286 Views)
ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Ok, so... here's a thread without any exegesis, long short or otherwise. I know, I know... in lieu of flowers you can just donate to your favorite charity.

When does Nikki know she's in love with Helen?

I include, in my definition of 'know': is fully "aware" of these feelings & names them Love, i.e. it's possible she's had Feelings for Helen for quite some time without being quite sure what they were--attraction, caring, lust, respect, fondness etc.--or perhaps being ready to put them into words, internally.

My take on it, fwiw, is that she knows--for sure--after Helen's rescued Zandra on the roof. In terms of the Narrative thread & the idea of heroism, I think Helen's actions on Zandra's behalf definitely fall into that category--here she's risking her life to save a virtual stranger because it's part of her job, not for any sort of personal reasons: because she feels responsible. That's pretty darn heroic, in my book. So I think Nikki looks up at Helen; is fearful for her safety etc; and afterwards, realizes just what she's seen (and almost lost), really has time to take in what it was Helen did; that sort of solidifies Nikki's feelings for her into something absolutely clear... & then the whole thing kind of comes crashing down on her (leading to her declaration in the hall).

But that's just my take & I suspect many others might well have different feelings on the matter. --e
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MJNet
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The romantic in me likes to think it was mid season 1 when she thrust Helen's hand onto her er.... boob! :o

But thinking about it... maybe it wasnt love until series 2 - when Nikki tells Helen shes madly in love with her in the hallway. God I love that bit. :wub:
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abzug
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OK, so someone deleted my reply! ;) No worries, I'll rewrite it.
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ekny
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Bloody, bloody hell, I'm so incredibly sorry, I replied wrong & 'edited' it, hit the wrong button. Just too stressed. I don't know if MJ can Rescue it, I asked her to. Mea MAXIMA culpa. I better go eat something & get my hair shirt back from the drier. Sh*t.
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abzug
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What I had said was that I agreed with ekny (and, since the time I posted, MJNet as well). Nikki is not the type to feel something and NOT say it, so I think she didn't know she was in love with Helen until the day/evening that she told her so.

But, for the sake of discussion, let me put forth an alternative theory: Nikki knew she was in love with Helen when she risked Monica's life to protect Helen. As she and the Julies were trying to get Monica to throw up after her overdose, Nikki kept pushing the envelope, not wanting to tell the screws what was going on. But each moment she waited meant that Monica, one of her closest friends at Larkhall, might die. All that to protect Helen. I think when it was happening, she probably wasn't thinking it through clearly, but afterwards, when she's in her cell and Helen comes in to confront her about Monica, she's had plenty of time to realize that she weighed Helen's career over Monica's life, if only for a split second, and that this meant she truly loved Helen.
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MJNet
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That is an excellent point, I now believe Nikki was in love with Helen late into series 1.
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badgirlnuts
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I think Nikki realizes she's fallen for Helen in S1,E7. After meeting Sean, she almost looks jealous and upset, and Helen notices the subtle change in her demeanor. So when she goes to the shed to question Nikki, it's so obvious to us.
HELEN: You know, for some odd reason it seems to upset you, Sean and I getting married.

NIKKI: Odd reason? That’s a good one.

HELEN: Nikki, what the hell is this about?

NIKKI: You really don’t know?

HELEN: If I knew, I wouldn’t be asking you, would I?

NIKKI: You wanna know what this is about? It’s about this.

(and she places H's hand on her boob)

HELEN: Jesus Christ!

I mean why would Nikki behave in such a desperate way if she's not fallen for Helen. She just doesn't say the word "Love" coz it's just sort of sunk in even to Nikki.
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Lisa289
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I think in S1Ep7, after meeting Sean, Nikki realised that she fancied Helen and she thought there was some connection between them.
Her feelings for Helen grew between then and Monica's suicide bid. And I agree that when Nikki was risking Monica's life, she must have realised that she more than fancied Helen: that she was falling in love with her.
Then, come S2, Nikki is so ecstatic to see Helen return and I think that first ep of that series was when Nikki realised that she had fallen into the deep end. And it comes to full realisation when Helen's on the roof.
I truly believe that as soon as Nikki realised that there was no going back on her part, she had to let Helen know exactly how she felt.

They're just my thoughts anyway!!
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MJNet
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I think Nikki fancied Helen from day one. I have always said it was the looks she gives Helen in the very first episode... it was more than anger... it was pure desire too. :lol:
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microsofty
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May I revive this thread by asking this question from a different angle?

When does Helen know she's in love with Nikki? At first I thought Nikki was the instigator behind the relationship, but having re-watched S1 (again), I'm not so sure anymore. Helen seems more the instigator, Nikki following the lead. That is why she's so confused most of the time throughout series 1. Nikki's interest in Helen starts when Helen lets her back on the wing after she attacked Shell, the part where Helen says "I'm sticking my neck out here, I don't know why". In my opinion that got Nikki thinking, "hey, wait a minute, does she actually fancy me ?!"
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Mad Maggot
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I think that's what Helen wanted Nikki to think. Well, okay, her incentive was not to make Nikki fall in love with her, she wanted an "ally amongst the inmates" and like she told Sean, she tried everything and nothing worked, so her approach was to play nice with Nikki and not to provoke her. She didn't put her down the block, urged her to do a degree, talked about books with her, brought her a copy of Sophie's World and did so whilst mildly flirting... or maybe not exactly flirting, but it wasn't without her "female charm" and I believe she was honest when she said she did it "for professional reasons", she wanted Nikki on her side, wanted to influence other inmates through Nikki.

However, when she summons Nikki to her office to tell her she is straight and crash Nikki's dreams, there's a line that makes it clear that her interest may not have been strictly professional (and I believe she didn't realize it until then), it's "Even if I were attracted to you...". This is a typical denial line and well, when someone denies something very hard, they usually happen to be guilty as charged. It gave her out. The fact that she put it like that (even if I were), in my eyes means if only for a second, but she asked herself what it would be like to kiss/make love to a woman and it might have been that she tried to imagine herself with Nikki. Just for research purposes of course, since she's straight.

Also, one more thing that gave out her inner feelings (that, as I like to say, were unknown to her), is when she shows up at the potting shed and tells Nikki that Sean'd asked her to marry him. She doesn't have to explain herself to Nikki and yet she does though she has no idea why. She could be doing it because she didn't want to lose Nikki as someone she was about to fully gain as her ally and maybe she also didn't want to lose her as somebody she'd grown to like. I think Helen, when she started to act out her plan on how to bring Nikki to her side, was surprised by Nikki's softer, calmer side which was also quite charming. It's like when someone makes a bet that they'll win someone over and make that someone fall for them and they end up falling in love with that person as well (this approach is used in a variety of really bad chick flicks). I guess you can say Miss Stewart was "intrigued" by Nikki.

As for when Nikki realized that she was in love with Helen, I also agree that it was Monica's suicide when she realized it. The potting shed accident was purely about desire (though my friends have argued with me on this, they say since she put Helen's hand on her heart, it means it's about love...) and now she made a huge risk, a huge sacrifice when she decided to handle "the Monica situation" on her own. And you make sacrifices like that only for those you love. I'm pretty sure Helen understands it too when she finds out Nikki's reasoning.

ETA: This felt like it wasn't finished, so I had to continue. After the "I did it for you" incident, Helen goes on vacation and they both have a lot of thinking to do. That's when Nikki probably analyzes (and maybe even overanalyzes heh) her behavior and her emotions and realizes she's in love. I don't know what kind of strength stopped her from doing a happy dance when she saw that Helen was back. Helen's heroic feat later that episode was too much for her, she couldn't keep it inside any longer.
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microsofty
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Quote:
 
I think that's what Helen wanted Nikki to think. Well, okay, her incentive was not to make Nikki fall in love with her, she wanted an "ally amongst the inmates" and like she told Sean, she tried everything and nothing worked, so her approach was to play nice with Nikki and not to provoke her. She didn't put her down the block, urged her to do a degree, talked about books with her, brought her a copy of Sophie's World and did so whilst mildly flirting... or maybe not exactly flirting, but it wasn't without her "female charm" and I believe she was honest when she said she did it "for professional reasons", she wanted Nikki on her side, wanted to influence other inmates through Nikki.

Somewhere along this line, Helen had to recognise Nikki as her equal, and by that I mean someone who has the same intelect, the same interests, etc. Nikki was someone in prison (and therefore under her care) but Nikki wasn't a con anymore in Helen's eyes. She was indeed intrigued by Nikki.
Helen's confusion about her own feelings or her lack of insight into her motivations for doing certain things re Nikki, results in double bind. Time and again Helen gives Nikki cause to believe that she (Helen) is in love with her, only to have her "hopes dashed". If we look at Nikki's behaviour in prison, and this has been meantioned in another thread as well, she always reacts. This is true in this case as well, she reacts to Helen's innuendo's, however innocent Helen intended them to be. Nikki believes that Helen is in love with her or at the very least, has a crush on her, and she reciprocates through her only little innuendo's. Up until the Potting Shed Momement, the dynamics between these two were based on a series of misunderstandings!
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I don't know what kind of strength stopped her from doing a happy dance when she saw that Helen was back. Helen's heroic feat later that episode was too much for her, she couldn't keep it inside any longer.

For Nikki to be this happy, she should still firmly believe at this point (quite rightly so!) that Helen is as in love with her as she is with Helen. But we all know that moments later Helen breaks Nikki's illusion about the matter. Every single time I watch that scene and it comes to Helen's "but I don't want to pretend... (that these aren't the facts)" I think she's going to say something else. I don't know what I want her to say, just something that will give Nikki (and the poor audience!) some hope!
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As for when Nikki realized that she was in love with Helen, I also agree that it was Monica's suicide when she realized it.

I think it might have been earlier than that. For me there is a big distinction between being in lust, being in love, and actually loving someone. Nikki was never really in lust with Helen, she needed Trish to point out to her that Helen is a babe... I don't quite know when Nikki fell in love with Helen, but I think by the time Monica tried to top herself, Nikki already loved Helen.
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abzug
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microsofty
 
Nikki was never really in lust with Helen, she needed Trish to point out to her that Helen is a babe...

That may have been true in S1E2, but I think Nikki felt a lot of lust for Helen. "I want to make love to you all night long" and "I've imagined this so many times" (after they make love in Helen's apartment) were both strong indications for me that Nikki feels a very strong physical desire for Helen, not just an emotional one.
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microsofty
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abzug
Apr 24 2007, 08:29 PM
microsofty
 
Nikki was never really in lust with Helen, she needed Trish to point out to her that Helen is a babe...

That may have been true in S1E2, but I think Nikki felt a lot of lust for Helen. "I want to make love to you all night long" and "I've imagined this so many times" (after they make love in Helen's apartment) were both strong indications for me that Nikki feels a very strong physical desire for Helen, not just an emotional one.

Yes! They definitely have a physical attraction (otherwise, what's the point?), but the initial relationship was not built on this lust. The lust came after the declaration of love, "I love you (Helen)... tell me (show me) that you love me"...
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abzug
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Call me a sex fiend, but I saw the lust as early as S1E6 (the flirty ep) or at the latest S1E7 (the potting shed--I mean, what else could that have been about, other than physical lust/desire?). :)
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