| Welcome to Nikki And Helen. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,282 Views) | |
| ekny | Jun 23 2009, 07:52 PM Post #151 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Sigh. I only logged on to say: in space, no one can hear you scream. Jeanna. Jeanna! I SAW that boldface. This is a lot like: Waitaminnit! If we lived here... we'd be home by now. Riiight? --yrs from the nostromo |
![]() |
|
| Jeanna | Jun 23 2009, 08:31 PM Post #152 |
|
I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
|
Open the pod bay doors, Hal. Frank Cooper, report to airlock D. And to quote the other movie (sequel): "Get away from her, you bitch!" Yes, dear, but we're all on the dark side of the moon. We need to stay away from spoilers and discuss the material we've actually seen. |
|
H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 23 2009, 09:02 PM Post #153 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Ah Houston, could you <ffft!> repeat? Safe to dock? Ah copy that. But: reread or pick up from current page-status? Ah, re material already seen, that's a big Rog. Out. <ffft> |
![]() |
|
| Jeanna | Jun 23 2009, 09:18 PM Post #154 |
|
I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
|
I would say page 10 is pretty safe to read. |
|
H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 23 2009, 09:21 PM Post #155 |
In love with a prisoner
|
<profanity!> Ok, look--I'll just bag it until I can catch up safely with everything. My OCD won't let me pick-up mid-stream, I just can't bring myself to do that. Thanks anyway. Really. My fault. Next time I'll move this stuff to a spoiler thread maybe, though, this is nuts. --e
|
![]() |
|
| Jeanna | Jun 24 2009, 12:03 AM Post #156 |
|
I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
|
Alrighty then. I'm going to suggest that if we have any more spoilers we should post them in a separate thread so poor e can come back into the mothership and stop floating in the inky vacuum. |
|
H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
![]() |
|
| traveller | Jun 24 2009, 12:49 AM Post #157 |
|
G2 landing
|
sounds like a plan. e should be able to come and post her comments. I enjoy her view on Otalia. Jeanna why not start a GL spoiler then this area will be safe for docking
|
|
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt | |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 24 2009, 01:17 AM Post #158 |
In love with a prisoner
|
<tiptoe> Uh. Hello. My name is ekny & I'm a spoiler-phobe. So--this last week. I can't see what the fuss is about. Nothing much happened, really. Did I miss something? Rafe's being Rafe. (Omg, that priest is so gay!) Frank's being Frank. Etc. Still waiting for the anvil, crisis, what have you. The thing I'm a little concerned about is the scriptwriting: it felt to me like they were taking shortcuts. Maybe it's just par for the soap-course, but twice, they did this whole As You Know, Bob thing around summarizing Olivia & Natalia's relationship (both times from Natalia--not enviable dialogue to be handed). Both around transitional moves Natalia's decided to make: quitting her job, deciding she's tired of 'waiting' around for (presumably) the kissage. So instead of having any real sense of what's going on with her internally, hard enough at the best of times, I just have a sense of pieces being moved on the board. Emotional developments being, I don't know, short-changed or telegraphed as if they're the same as plot-developments, sort of folded into the plot. Her decision to quit her job makes perfect sense in terms of non-soap reality: it's a terrible idea for them to be working together, it would have made for all sorts of problems down the line, eventually, so it seems smart. Or would have seemed so had it been expressed that way. But I didn't get any sense it's because Natalia's figured that out, grown enough emotionally to see & anticipate that--because that wasn't how it was presented: only that it's based on fear of What the Neighbors Think. Which is not the idea here, kids. (Not for me, anyway.) Similarly, her summary about why they've been waiting is again, based on external factors, not internal. So I have to tapdance around those things, in my head, to make it work. Which I found frustrating on a bunch of levels. Mainly I'm hoping it isn't a sign of what's to come in terms of the writing. I am assuming unless shown otherwise that it's more of this treading-water thing until JL comes back & they can start filming again for the final month. <depression: that's really not a lot of air-time left, given they basically have about 20-25 minutes a week. It's about another hour, hour and a half, tops, for the end-game, best I can figure.> Sorry if you guys have already discussed this--I haven't read any of the er, missing pages. And thanks for being willing to start a spoiler thread. I'm a little nervous everyone will just go over there, or that it's sort of stupid to be doing this if I'm the only one who's trying to avoid spoilers in the entire Universe, but--I appreciate it anyway.
|
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 24 2009, 02:28 AM Post #159 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
To me, this last week or two was about addressing the complaints/concerns of all the viewers about this relationship. Nat quitting her job was about straight folks not understanding that Nat and Liv are more than just friends, that their love for eachother isn't about proximity or convenience. (Hard for me to get my head around the perspective of these viewers, but I've heard rumor they exist.) Then yesterday's ep was addressing the concerns of all us pro-Otalia folks who are like "Why the FUCK is it taking so long for them to hook up already?!" I mean, a month of not-kissing out of fear/anxiety I could have bought into, but this is friggin ridiculous. I do think there IS some psychological evolution going on for Nat, though. I mean, the stuff she was talking about yesterday, about balancing her own happiness with her son's happiness is not something she has had to think about before now, and it represents a major shift for her. In the end, Nat's journey has always been about her putting her desires in front of what the Church tells her is right, in front of what her son wants etc. So for her to say that she's done waiting, it's a big deal. It's not exactly an insight, per se, but it's getting in touch with herself in a different way, and it IS less repressed. E, I'm always happy to talk about the show and analyze it, sans spoilers, so you won't be alone in this thread. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| traveller | Jun 24 2009, 02:36 AM Post #160 |
|
G2 landing
|
No, you won't be alone E. I enjoy the analysis. Another perspective... or two, or three is always enlightening. |
|
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt | |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 24 2009, 03:03 AM Post #161 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Thanks guys. ![]() Abzug, hiya! Traveller! Other peeps! <whew> I did have the sense that this was for Other Viewers, but thanks for bringing that up, cause yeah, another planet heard from for reals, there. How bizarre.
Evidently.I'm oddly unconcerned about kissage: I figure we'll get it, so... why worry. If we get 1 we'll want 2, if we get 5 we'll want a bedroom scene (which I could live w/o, actually). But since I assume we'll have some snogging, I figure if I don't know when it's coming it's more likely to be a pleasant surprise. & hopefully not as stagy as the bench-scene. (I know, pregnant lady. Still.) But yeah, I get that there's some, uh, stress about this issue out thar. Other notes from my time in exile: 1) O. managing not to tell the priest to sod off (or rather, doing so very politely) only cause it's a soap. Nice. 2) One of the things I did like best about this week (well--last) was the way CC was doing this low-level stress thing around Olivia's expressions. You just know she's stressed out of her mind, but that's not what she's delivering. It's just right. 3) I loved the bit of business with the chairs in O's office. 4) Who is this goober who keeps hitting on everyone? Some day-player they dragged back for the end of the show? Puhlease. Nice move, Liv. Take those groceries. Back off, Bub. 5) But most of all, I *adore* drunk Olivia. Handing Frank and Marina their hats: very gratifying. |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 24 2009, 12:42 PM Post #162 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
He's actually been a major character on GL for years and years. Just not so much recently, and not in Otalia's orbit, which is why you don't 'know' him. Theory is they're using scenes like that to set up more Springfield characters who will have a reason to react when they find out about Liv and Nat. As for the lack of kissing, or the potential for a sex scene, I guess the lesbian chip on my shoulder is getting pretty heavy, and I don't like the double-standard with the straight couples, whose physical intimacies are portrayed so explicitly. PLUS, having seen Crystal Chappell in various sex scenes with various partners, I'm certain she could deliver a kiss and/or sex scene with Natalia that would be pretty remarkable, and I've seen lots of lesbian kissing/sex scenes. So I don't want to miss out on that. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| marymartin | Jun 24 2009, 01:52 PM Post #163 |
|
The ghost of Larkhall!
|
I believe what we are starting to see onscreen is writing since cancellation. This story was plotted to run two years, if you can believe what you read about it -- what we are seeing now, may have initially been planned for eight, nine, ten months post non-wedding. My understanding is that when CBS cancelled the show, the headwriters were told to outline it going forward with a Plan A (show continues after Sept 18) and Plan B -- show ends Sept 18. So, in the outline it could read: Rafe finds out and reacts negatively. Olivia and Natalia decide to tell everyone. If the show had been picked up, the Rafertude could have played out six or eight months. Now they don't have the luxury of not incorporating the other stuff into the story, which makes it seem uneven in places and stalled in others. Scripts are usually shot 4-6 weeks before they air. April first, the story arc leading up to the wedding was just hitting its stride. Scripts through the spa, maybe (early May) had been written and shot. Because of Jessica's pregnancy, there may have been more written than usual due to preshooting, but I definitely think what we are seeing now onscreen is all post-cancellation. They're speeding up the storytelling -- unfortunately not the onscreen confirmation of all the love declarations --- and now they have to incorporate a piece to explain Natalia's absence during Jessica's maternity leave -- hopefully something that will lead to quick resolution once she returns to Springfield. This is spec -- not a spoiler, so don't worry. Jessica started her maternity leave June 1 and it ends after the July 4th holiday. I think that is 34 days, or about five weeks. Now whether she will be completely offscreen for fives weeks, who knows, but the reality is that she returns to shooting July 5th and the entire show stops shooting August 7th. So, the luxury of slow storytelling is gone -- if they are sticking to their original outline and trying to cram as much in as possible before the fat lady sings. At this point, I have lowered my expectations so much, I might as well dig a hole to lie around in. Oh well, real life goes on and there is always fanfic. |
| "Thomas is gorgeous. He's everything you would want in a man. But I want a woman." | |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 24 2009, 03:09 PM Post #164 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Abzug, I agree with all of your comments to the letter; & am aware of the shooting issues, multiple storyline options, etc. I guess since my expectations were nil going in, when I hit a point about 3 weeks after the wedding business & there was nothing in sight, I bagged that part of it, internally: it was the only way I could go on watching, since it was all just too damn silly for words. Something BG never subjected us to. Definitely agree we're seeing the newer writing now, MM, which as I said, worries me a lot more. I'm wondering if part of what's going on is also that the writers didn't bargain on quite this level of audience response, esp among the gay community. Who, as I've said all along, is not their primary audience. It's nice for them we're here & all, but that's not who they're addressing, & never has been. I think they think their primary audience is still god-fearing grannies in Arkansas. And that's nice too, that they want to do good works & make some people a little less fearful--which has been & remains the show's only real agenda, imo. Which is entirely praiseworthy. Someone needs to hold the hands of the slowest & most fearful & show them how to cross the street. The ones who aren't going to just stand there rocking back & forth on their heels & muttering, that is. But that strategy & approach makes for a LOT of problems in terms of any reasonable sort of treatment for this storyline. Labelless maybe wasn't supposed to mean sexless, & god knows the actors are working as hard as they can around that. But there's a serious limit, & we've been at it since April. If American media keeps addressing the lowest common denominator in their audience, then that's what you get in terms of response. And product. (See: 'reality' tv.) If they hadn't decided to treat a few lesbian kisses like they were plutonium, people wouldn't be reacting this way. Lesbians, enthusiastic straight viewers, OR the 3 people who supposedly are too dull-witted/'innocent' to Understand What's Going On. (I think that's a coping strategy at best: at worst they're being willfully obtuse to justify how Shocked, Totally Shocked they will be when any kind of kiss does happen, but hey, I'm cynical.) What the writers should've done, obviously, was just incorporate a bit of snogging into the text & moved along like adults. Instead, we're stuck with the cute-bunny-model of making Pleasantville safe for all of us. Which was, again imo, the point all along. eta:
I felt this was a good example of the show wanting it both ways. Rafe specifically brings up the sex-before-marriage thing, which reads as total bullshit to me, but maybe not to someone from a different orbit. And *then* brings up it not seeming 'normal', which is a much more real expression of this issue at hand. |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Jun 24 2009, 08:14 PM Post #165 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
Goodness, it's been busy here.
Soaps do that at regular intervals, not necessarily just before a plot movement, cause you really only need to watch once a month to follow the plot. A little recap is required to bring all viewers up to speed. (I was laughing through Dinah recapping recent events to Lara's grave the other day, much as Natalia told Gus all the latest gossip while visiting his marker). I agree with MM that we are now seeing post-cancellation scripting and it is moving at break neck speed to wind everything up.
I subscribe to the theory that Natalia has never had a lot to process internally because, as she said back there in the classroom, she knew what it meant to say she loved someone. She knows internally, personally, where she and Olivia will end up - she just doesn't know how to get there. She doesn't know how to get there because of the external factors that are in the way, and she doesn't know how to handle them. Marina's rant to her about being reactive was a cattleprod to Natalia telling her that she can, in fact, confront the externals. First by quitting her job and second by saying she is done with waiting for the obstacles to clear themselves. About the Kissing Issue. Yeah, yeah, I want some too. But it is soooo clear to me, especially after the "tired of waiting" scene, that the writers are playing the viewers. As the viewers whine and jump and scream, the teasing increases. That entire scene was hysterically funny for that subtext. I don't know the technicals of how they did it, but Olivia's face kept looming closer and closer, every angle between them seemed ripe for the big moment. Natalia declares she's tired of waiting, Olivia agrees they are tired of waiting, they aren't going to wait, leans in ... Last image of them holding hands (yet again.) And ... tune in Friday. |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The Comfy Sofa · Next Topic » |






My fault. Next time I'll move this stuff to a spoiler thread maybe, though, this is nuts. --e

8:46 AM Jul 11