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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,280 Views) | |
| ekny | Jun 25 2009, 07:58 PM Post #181 |
In love with a prisoner
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You wanna say a little more about your queasiness? Because it doesn't agree with my politics either (for what they're worth). & I've spoken with other people who have similar doubts but are rather sotto voce about them these days. Beyond that I don't think it'd make much emotional sense w/the foreshortened timeline we have left. |
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| abzug | Jun 25 2009, 09:16 PM Post #182 |
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In love with a prisoner
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That's not necessarily true. I mean, it's true that there's not plot specific to the evolution of the relationship, but this is a soap, so any crazy outside stress could occur which our heroines would have to confront. I mean, the whole stretch when Phillip returned to town and Olivia freaked out led to some incredible Otalia moments, but it had nothing to do with their relationship in particular. Same with the whole Decker investment scheme back in the fall. My ideal would be for them to resolve these gay-specific issues (homophobic reactions, both external and internal) and move on to dealing with outside problems. |
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| marymartin | Jun 26 2009, 01:45 AM Post #183 |
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The ghost of Larkhall!
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I am of the opinion that we won't know if Phillip lives or dies. Bizzie's wedding is the second week of July. That leaves almost two months left before the show signs off. I think after the wedding Phillip will reveal his condition. Since he is connected to most of Springfield, that will impact almost everyone's lives and the story will be about their reactions and how it changes (or doesn't) change them. I wish the writers had given Frank the disease but it is obvious that this tool and his annoying daughter will be at the forefront right up to the end.
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| "Thomas is gorgeous. He's everything you would want in a man. But I want a woman." | |
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| cagey | Jun 26 2009, 02:50 AM Post #184 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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I'll agree on that. I am just trying to figure out how much time the girls actually have in terms of all the other stories that the writers want to complete. Marry off Bill and Lizzie; marry off Remy and Christina, settle up James/Daisy/Rafe, get Blake and Frank together, and whatever it is that Shayne and Dinah are supposed to be. Not to mention the folks that are supposed to die or come back for final bows. I am sure they will interact with these stories, and I am as interested as the next voyeur in what other stories Olivia and Natalia may get involved with, but I really don't see another separate story line, other than the acknowledgment of their couple-dom happening in this short (one month, when JL returns?) time frame.
hee. Frank doesn't bother me all that much, but I feel your pain. And I still love the prospect of Frank and Mallet having to arrest their respective daughter/spouse for murdering Edmund. But lovely as that thought is, it does not resonate with Dinah and Jeffrey in Bosniapak. As an aside: I correspond with someone who happens to work near Peapack. She noticed a film crew at the local shopping mall parking lot. Now I am looking forward to another random parking scene.
Sotto voce about Otalia specifically or gay+marriage in general? I suppose we could start a new thread just to talk about the politics of gay marriage, and I would probably get all into it cause I am like that. But, let us just say that, personally, I am too much of an anarchist to allow the state into my personal life. Which it already has, and there you go. In for a penny, in for a pound. As to Olivia and Natalia having some sort of commitment occasion (I do not like the word ceremony here for the same anarchist reasons): I think it makes sense in the context of the soap, but on the same hand, it should not happen. Weddings in soaps are such benchmarks of significance. Which promptly fall to shit. We need Olivia and Natalia to make some kind of profound statement, but for a happy ending it need not be the walking down the aisle route. Which would be just silly, and hilarious and purposeless. |
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| abzug | Jun 26 2009, 02:56 AM Post #185 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I just had this image of a final montage in the last episode which would show us all the happy families and couples, and in this montage, Olivia and Natalia would be standing in the center of the gazebo, kissing, on a beautiful sunny day, and the camera would be rotating around them with just a hint of slow mo. (Well, actually, of course the way it's filmed is they'd be on a rotating platform, but whatever.) And honestly, that's the only profound statement I'd need for these two. |
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| Carolynnq9a | Jun 26 2009, 05:52 AM Post #186 |
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Carolyn
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HI everyone, Just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread all along. You have all given me alot to think about. To date I have not yet formulated anything I felt I needed to add, but wanted you know I am here avidly reading along. I will post if I think of something to add. Thank you Jeanna, for letting me know this thread was here! I do however, want to make use of an abbreviation for a continuing creative occurence....and it may have already been created......it will be paraphasing Abzug a few posts ago....... I have said it in long form in PMs on a few occasions! :)... EKNYILYNA - ekny I love your new avatar ![]() Carolyn |
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| ekny | Jun 26 2009, 06:55 AM Post #187 |
In love with a prisoner
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Oh my, how cool! My own mini-abbreviation! Thanks! It did seem... timely.Before I knew anything about a picnic my idea for a closing shot was of some kind of outdoors BBQ/picnic-slash-event, whatever. Just a last moment with the couple, clearly together (oh right--plus Emma) and a slow pull-back to pick up other couples, the rest of the crowd, back to a crane/aerial shot of the whole lot of them. Seemed... sensible. Inclusive. Fitting with the nice outdoors shots & the show's easy naturalism (when it's doing what it does best). |
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| abzug | Jun 27 2009, 01:21 AM Post #188 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I am in love with Blake after today. First, because of her line about being upset Natalia chose Olivia rather than her. SO funny and real. More importantly she's a shit stirrer, and I mean that in the best possible way. Everyone else has kind of let them stay in their own little world, and allowed them to not say anything, and not asked any questions, or if they did ask questions, it was just to tell them they need to stop, or to criticize, or tell them to keep quiet etc. Blake it seems is the very first person to want to celebrate the relationship (well, other than Doris, but she's not exactly objective, nor is she very celebratory--she's more secretly working behind the scenes, as befits a closeted lesbian). As for the not-kissing, I'm really of the opinion that we're supposed to assume they're kissing by now, and we just aren't getting to see it. Sad but true. Because by this point they've missed the boat--it has definitely sailed. They are way too physically intimate to not be kissing, and so now if they showed a kiss, it wouldn't make any sense. Or, it would, but not if they were pretending it was their first kiss. Which must be frustrating as hell for the actresses, to have to play these scenes, with these rules on how much they can touch, or how much they are allowed to show, since what they've limited themselves to makes no sense whatsoever from a character perspective or plot perspective. There is absolutely nothing holding them back, not since Rafe found out, and DEFINITELY not since Natalia said she didn't want to wait anymore, so the only possibility is we're supposed to believe these two are not kissing until the entire town knows? That's just bizarre and completely without logic of any sort. I loved the Company scene, and their decision to just BE a couple, in public, and forget about making any sort of big announcement. This is actually very cool from a queer studies perspective. I don't know if anyone remembers that academic article about Bad Girls which compared Helen's coming out with Ellen's (from the show Ellen). And they talked about how Ellen's coming out was saying words (I'm gay, over the airport loudspeaker) while Helen's was taking action (finding Nikki after her appeal) and about desire ("I want a woman"). Similarly, for Olivia and Natalia to just show up at the BBQ and just BE a couple is very much about acting not saying, where sexuality is something you live and do, not something you say about yourself. And queer theorists think this is both more empowered and more evolved, kind of in the "Hey, we're past having to go around saying I'm gay, we can just live our lives" kinda thing. And in case viewers weren't up on their queer theory, the writers were kind enough to let both Olivia and Natalia refer to Independence Day in association with their coming out, so that it's about freedom from the internal and external heterosexist judgements which have been plaguing them. I didn't even mind the Emma stuff.No matter how independent a kid is, they have their moments of being in a funk. And it sounded like Emma didn't want to dwell on it (she had told them at camp she didn't want her mom to know what had happened and make a fuss and bring over the right shirt). In the end it was more of a scene about Olivia's internalized homophobia, because she couldn't really make the case to Emma that it was ok to be different, because she wasn't totally certain about it herself. And to me that was realistic. I mean, seriously, I've been watching ALL of these old Olivia clips, and she is just SO assertive and aggressive, doing and saying whatever the fuck she wants. And that's not the Olivia we've seen for the last four, five, six months. And I've been asking myself why, and really, the only answer is that Olivia herself is not fully comfortable with this gay thing and how people will react, what they'll think of her etc. And that's not unrealistic AT ALL. |
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| solitasolano | Jun 27 2009, 01:49 AM Post #189 |
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abzug, Can I just say your post was one big BRAIN KISS, thanks.
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| cagey | Jun 27 2009, 02:22 AM Post #190 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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I must agree, abzug - you nailed it. ![]()
I was just thinking that today. So much of the enjoyment of watching a soap is presuming what is happening during the moments we don't see. And I agree that at this point, the first time they kiss on screen it has to be as if they have kissed many times before, otherwise it would be ridiculous.
I felt the same way about the gazebo chat earlier this week. They are now so very comfortable with their relationship that they don't seem to notice when they are in public anymore. So why not?
Ooh, internalized homophobia. When will it leave us alone? Did you get the feeling at all that Olivia thought she could do a better job at telling her kid about it than Natalia did. Then when push came to shove -- maybe not?
Absolutely. That dates from the first confession with Doris. Olivia is very good at putting up the front - with the 2 mommies at Towers - but that was play acting and this is the real thing. I have to congratulate the writers for the footloose abandon they are getting. Nothing like a sinking ship - I guess. Frank today going on about "for such a small town to be connected to Bosnia - that's pretty weird, man" and "I'm the only one who hasn't been to Bosnia yet." Into that category I have to include Blake as heard in the preview for next week. About time some one said the obvious.
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| abzug | Jun 27 2009, 02:45 AM Post #191 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I don't know if anyone here has read the book Blink but it's talking about our unconscious, instantaneous mental processing, and how often our gut reactions to things are more accurate than our reasoned, analytic ones. Except it's these gut reactions which are also where our prejudices lay. (Lie? Lye? shit, brain, where are you?) Anyway, the author took this test which evaluates your brain's tendency to associate positive things with white people and negative things with black people. And even though the author himself is half black, his brain finds it harder to associate positive things with black people than with white people. And when I was reading it I thought to myself, man, no wonder it is still so hard to be gay! We don't even (usually) have role models in our families to counteract the negative messages society blasts at us from our earliest days of cognition. Coming out is hard because it takes forever to overcome those gut reactions of negative associations with gay people. Like, on a neurological level, it takes forever. And even those of us who are out haven't necessarily fully succeeded at it. We've just strengthened our rational minds enough so that we can beat the unconscious instinctive mind into submission whenever it starts to think those gays-are-sick-and-evil thoughts.
Oooh nice one! I hadn't thought about that, but of course, makes total sense. And a good opportunity to remind us that it's not only Natalia who continues to struggle with this. And I guess remind Olivia as well, yeah?
And did you notice Olivia's first line in the episode?! It was chiding Natalia for leaving the door unlocked "again." Hehe. Wait, although, just occurred to me, could that have been a CC adlib? It's possible b/c she joked in one of the podcasts or chats or something about them needing to get a lock on that door, after all the people who showed up and interrupted them. |
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| traveller | Jun 27 2009, 03:00 PM Post #192 |
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G2 landing
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Happy Weekend ... Enjoying the discussion. Keep it coming. I don't know if you have seen this but I thought what the hell ... It is from Artistic Endeavours section on the BPD website. Otalia Comics by Meg. Hilarious. The Sock puppets strip ... http://z8.invisionfree.com/otaliafans/inde...topic=2231&st=0 |
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Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt | |
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| Jules2 | Jun 28 2009, 12:29 AM Post #193 |
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Oh wow, are you both for me?
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Anybody up for the latest spoiler? |
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| traveller | Jun 28 2009, 01:31 AM Post #194 |
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G2 landing
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Oh no Jules2 ... no spoilerWe have pledged to talk about the show and analyze it, sans spoilers, so E can enjoy. Many thanks ... but please come join in on the discussion & analysis. The more the merrier
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Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt | |
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| cagey | Jun 28 2009, 01:34 AM Post #195 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Traveller got there before me. Spoiler wise: You mean: do I want to hear it, or do I know it? Either way, I'd love to hear it. If you have information you'd like to share, let's start a spoiler thread for that - just to keep this area sanitized from all the really bad stuff that has been floating around as we move our way to the Bauer BBQ. Always want the clean hands around the meat. |
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Thanks! It did seem... timely.
Oh no Jules2 ... no spoiler

8:46 AM Jul 11