| Welcome to Nikki And Helen. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,279 Views) | |
| abzug | Jun 28 2009, 03:14 AM Post #196 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
I started an Otalia Spoiler Thread and posted what I knew. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 28 2009, 07:51 AM Post #197 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Hmm... I read 'chicken out' as lame soapy writing, and I suppose we have to give it some credence, but Olivia is a good mother because she puts her child's needs first. (Her tendency to play down anything good she does & play up her faults might also be taken into account.) And if Emma wasn't up for having The Talk on her no-pink-shirt-day--which she clearly was not--then it would have been wrong for Olivia to go ahead. Shrug. So she'll pick another day, is all.
Similarly... I liked that decision by Olivia & her presentation of it. I thought it was the right thing to do. Deciding to go ahead & do it with Natalia could just as easily still be read as wanting to not fuck up with Emma; and if this seems a better way to do it, than that's still the only thing that matters (Emma's welfare), or matters most. Imo it remains open to interpretation until we have more data. Re kissage: I don't think, given expectations, that anyone could carry it off well enough to make all the people happy. Too long, too silly--about that, there can hardly be much argument? As for what they're doing behind the scenes... actually, though... not convinced. They're just not presenting like a couple in that particular way. Imo. In other words, I think they (and the script) actually ARE being that weird. The only way I can get my head around it is to do the soap-weirdo-timeline-smush & say yeah, well actually it's only been like, 3 weeks since the gazebo scene. :/ The non-kissing is, however, so totally absurd I think both actors are amused by it. The near-kiss was perfectly natural--until CC had to swerve away at the last sec--that they both just seemed like they were having trouble even keeping straight faces. I realize this was a Cute!Flirty scene, but nevertheless. Didn't think the woman playing Blake did well with her timing on the first part of her scene w/N., the whole oh my gosh! thing was clumsily delivered. On the other hand, that she flirted with Nat more than made up for it. I don't think it's ever crossed poor Natalia's mind that any other woman besides Olivia might uh, want to do that. We are very amused. (JL's reaction shot didn't work well, imo--wrong tone--but it didn't spoil my fun.) |
![]() |
|
| Jules2 | Jun 28 2009, 09:14 AM Post #198 |
|
Oh wow, are you both for me?
![]()
|
That was the latest what i read/heared too! |
![]() |
|
| Jules2 | Jun 28 2009, 09:40 AM Post #199 |
|
Oh wow, are you both for me?
![]()
|
First off, I promised myself not to get hooked on a soap that i cannot even watch on my own tv. But with all the 'faults' the Otalia storyline has, if also has a lot of good things. The little moments so many tv shows and soaps forget these todays. As to the last episode, i don't know if Natalia's reaction to Blake was really off. The 'that you chose Olivia over me' line was flirtatious and i don't think Natalia ever realised that women can flirt with each other in a playful way. Blake wasn't really hitten on Natalia, but Natalia still has to learn to be comfortable in her own skin before she can respond to the playfull ness and take it for what it is. As to Olivia and 'the talk' Well the writers obviously needed a stall tactic. Jellybean is often a stall tactic in the Otaliascene's. Why not have her be a stall tactic on it's own?! While i can see it happening, not wearing the right tv shirt so you're not allowed to play with us, the timing was just lame. Olivia could have a talk with Natalia about how she was going to tell Emma the news and how it would make Emma special. A short of: cancelled playdates part 2. That would give Olivia enough to think about. But i think in the end... Emma would be extatic about the prospec of possibly living at the farmhouse again! Since this is the the route the writers chose, i agree with you Ekny that Olivia was just trying to be a good mother. Emma wasn't really up for any kind of talk and to learn that she really does have to mommy's would make her different/special on a day she really doesn't want to be. Btw, did you all read the comment of someone on afterellen that in the day/or in the weekend Crystal was sick this poster invited her and Kimmy T. and a few others for a chat session and that Crystal actually joined in. This woman is amazing and a great allie(?) for the LBGT community! |
![]() |
|
| Jeanna | Jun 28 2009, 05:55 PM Post #200 |
|
I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
|
[/b] Yep, I agree with both of you. I'm really way far from feeling even a whisper of the 'internalized homophobia' thing. I don't have a psychological reading to back that up, it's just a gut feeling for what I saw. Sometimes bad timing is simply what it is. The only homophobia that's going to hurt us now is external. I mean things like the editor (or director) not holding Olivia's caress of Natalia's face for more than a nanosec before cutting away or other possible decrees from on high that will not allow CC to display the kind of heat soap audiences are used to seeing from her. Then again, it can be argued that Olivia has never really been in love before. This is new to her in, oh, so many ways. Be interesting to see what the girls have to say on Sept. 18th...and if they will be open at that time to answer questions about how the rest of this...you'll pardon the very bad pun...goes down. |
|
H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 28 2009, 05:58 PM Post #201 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Semi-academic article about the importance of the Otalia storyline. http://www.hnn.us/articles/95129.html Writing is spotty at times, but overall it's a good piece. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Jun 28 2009, 09:07 PM Post #202 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
Thanks for the article link, abzug. Made me feel ancient. But I think any or all of us could have written something a touch more profound about the impact of this sl. I'm just in my usual grumpy, happy lesbian/gay FREEDOM day mood. "Which is why Guiding Light’s Otalia is quietly revolutionary. It represents a new phase in the history of gays in America: the move from difference to domesticity not only in content but in style." Sigh. Being gay is all about kitchen, church and children these days. Much as I enjoy this story unfolding, and enjoy even more the audience response to it, I can never forget that a soap opera is a profoundly conservative environment and the Otlalia is an affirmation that lesbians can be domesticated. |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 28 2009, 09:25 PM Post #203 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Ok, I rewatched this scene, because I was surprised that both you and ekny didn't see any internalized homophobia on Olivia's part. And I have to say, I still see it, especially in the reaction shot after Emma talks about not wanting to be different because kids treat you weird (or something along those lines). Perhaps she was only feeling sad for what her daughter is going to be going through with two mommies, but I didn't see the pro-gay fighting spirit, the "Different in the most awesome, amazing, super-cool way" spirit.
I know what you mean, and it's an issue I'm really ambivalent about. I mean, when I was younger, I talked about how glad I was that I was gay, because it had given me this amazing, outsider perspective on the world which I thought was really enriching. And it had forced me to do a level of introspection and self-evolution (just to realize I was gay and get over the self-loathing) that I might not have done otherwise. Again, richer life because of it. And yet now my life is kinda like any straight person's life. I'm a capitalist yuppie no matter how you slice it, and I didn't even go to the parade today. I'm glad I live in a community which accepts me as a full-fledged member of the liberal yuppie breeder world, but aren't I supposed to be changing that world, rather than it changing me? And how do I go about doing that, while also having the things I've grown to want in my life? I just don't have answers for these questions.... |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Jun 28 2009, 09:53 PM Post #204 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Hm. I really agreed with cagey here & abzug too. I had trouble with the article's whole perspective: whoever she's addressing, it's sure not me. I think she's a little economic with history at times: [re Fried Green Tomatos] "The book’s message suggests that some accommodation to the sensibilities of the audience, far from selling out, is strategic." The *movie's* message might suggest that, but lesbian audience response at the time did not. Then as now, the area of dispute remains the presentation of sexuality. And submerging it cannot remain the only option. Similarly, "Resetting the default images conjured with the words “gay” and “homosexual” from scenes of swinging bars, angry marches, and ugliness, to kitchens, parenting, and beauty, can promote empathy, a first step to understanding and acceptance." Ugliness? Whose eye is beholding, exactly? Finally, the business about re-visiting the 80s "we're here we're queer etc" chant in the way she did rubbed me all kinda wrong, and concluding that paragraph with the bit about her own tastes didn't strike me as useful or germane (although predictable). Finally: "If identifying as a straight person does not require performance of a sex act, or speaking about such matters in public, why should gay individuals be forced to do so? As work by queer theorists Lauren Berlant, Gayle Rubin, and Michael Warner attests, sexual practices do not have to require a political identity. Why insist on labeling Natalia and Oliva gay or demanding that they “come out of the closet” when all they are doing is falling in love?" ...about which I can only say I disagree rather strenuously. As an avowed apolitical dyke. Speaking personally, myself. All this children & Küche stuff makes me uncomfortable as hell, frankly. At best it feels reactionary. I have a sense of where she's coming from & she's more than entitled to espouse that pov, but if this is where gays are today, doesn't that kinda suck? BMWs, time-shares, marriage, lesbian cruiseship vacations, blahblah. Bored now: leaving. Furthermore, & back on topic, I don't think people *are* 'demanding' they come out of the closet. We're all on board with the labelless, at least to the degree we each have made our own accommodations: we're watching, aren't we? |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 28 2009, 10:04 PM Post #205 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Righto. The only thing people seem to be demanding right now is some physical contact other than hugging and hand-kissing. Btw, on As the World Turns, Luke and Noah didn't kiss for almost a YEAR after their first time kissing, and during this time they were together together (as Olivia and Natalia would put it), so it seems this really is de rigeur for soap operas, and we ARE getting a lesbian love story, despite the labellessness. If it were truly any other love story, we wouldn't have this double-standard. What straight couples on soaps are "together together" and don't kiss? |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| Jeanna | Jun 29 2009, 12:19 AM Post #206 |
|
I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
|
Agree with that pov, Abzug. It's maddening. It's also just plain bigoted and this I see as homophobic, and in an ironically very gay theatrical atmosphere. They would show more if they could. CBS has the final say, I am sure. And the networks can talk as much as they want about diversity and inclusion and equality, they are just as much phoney liberals as some of our relatives who merely 'tolerate' us when it comes right down to showing support for a story like this. The stereo-types are still more acceptable. And, supposedly, if they had continued with this storyline they would have been fully incorporated into the soap just like any other couple presumably. Once it became clear that the sky wasn't going to fall. You have a very sensual actress who is known in daytime for her infamous sex scenes...and you don't exploit that?! Well...I'm glad they're not 'exploiting' that in this case in the "Pucker up, Ladies, it's Sweeps!" manner. But, we can argue that this has never been about sex, but about the real L word, loooove. However, they have brought up S-E-X themselves. They can talk about it... but can they show it? Or will they? Have the writers and producers lost the will since cancellation? But I have to say what I've said elsewhere and I do dearly mean this and will continue to say and mean it into the forseeable future. That one palm kiss of Olivia to Natalia's hand was worth far far more (to me anyway) than all six seasons of The L Word put together. |
|
H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Jun 29 2009, 05:48 AM Post #207 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
Well I didn't go to our parade today either. Corporate fest of rum and beer swilling and cruise marketing that it is. Largest and most lucrative public event in San Fran each year. And while no longer I suppose qualifying for the Young in the Yuppie, I am as much as you firmly entrenched in the corporate and corporatist program. We are all stuck in that dilemma of wanting to change the world for the better while paying the rent and thinking about how we will take care of ourselves as we get older. Kinda like any straight person's life? Only on the outside. Never on the inside. Or every time I have one of those conversations with my straight colleagues about all the normalcies of their lives that is so not part of mine. But, that aside, being queer, is still being queer. Your perspective, mine, will always be not quite in the mainstream, much as we may assimilate, or come to understand or even envy what the heterosexual norm is. If we didn't, well then I guess we wouldn't be upset by the slightest indication that the Otalia story might be going down the toilet. As for that story line - I remain confident that the writers will be true to their own vision. I am also accepting that this vision is probably not going to make us all sigh with contentment. There will be far more hand patting than lip smacking. I try to remember that this is not the main story, it is one of many stories the writers have to wrap up. I'm actually in favor of killing off as many extraneous characters as possible - and that includes Philip. Meantime, I agree with Jeanna, that a heart felt and true palm kiss is so much better than pre-fab, ready for exploitation, oh horrors, can you imagine a Disneyfied? - version of our lives. |
![]() |
|
| Jules2 | Jun 29 2009, 09:32 PM Post #208 |
|
Oh wow, are you both for me?
![]()
|
I thougth the talk with Rafe today was a little disappointing. But on the other hand, it would be too good to be true if Olivia was to say the right thing and Rafe were to have a ligthbalp moment. I'm so glad they got Blake into the storyline. Frank, the good man, and Father Ray have been on their case. It is good to see that someone is actually happy for them! |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Jun 30 2009, 01:30 AM Post #209 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Totally! I wanted to see Olivia in her fierce mode. You know, all "gentle as a lamb" like she was with Rafe back in August when he was first in jail. Not so much to give Rafe a lightbulb moment as to see the empowered version of her again. I still love how she doesn't care if Rafe hates her (and I believe she doesn't--she's never cared much what people think of her, other than the people she's in love with), but I think he wound up having the upper hand, with his adolescent attitude, which seemed mainly bent on humiliating her (and I think, in part, succeeded, although that just might have been my own cringe factor). I didn't love the execution of the Doris stuff, but I like the idea of it, and although it's heavy handed, they're definitely trying to make a clear case for the right way to handle dealing with your kids around your sexuality. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Jun 30 2009, 02:15 AM Post #210 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
I think the point of Olivia's chat with Rafe today was setting up another round of Natalia vs. Narrow Minded Religious Interpretations; although I thought Olivia was awfully even tempered as she told him that his mother stood by him while he was getting punished for breaking a commandment or two. I too am waiting for Olivia to suit up and play and, if I am to speculate, it will be to defend Natalia from whatever is lurking out there. Did like that her next thought was to move right ahead and call Philip. Let's get him aboard the love train. Did you the feeling Ashlee really doesn't want to know about her mother's secret life? TMI, imo. Blake has become the voice of the viewers. Pounding on Frank's chest repeatedly with the You're a good man." Stating the obvious: I never picked up that you were a couple, or whatever it was she said about Otalia. Highly entertaining. I know there are viewers out there still in a state of high anxiety, but I am really enjoying the writing these days. |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The Comfy Sofa · Next Topic » |








8:46 AM Jul 11