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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,264 Views) | |
| ekny | Jul 22 2009, 04:55 AM Post #421 |
In love with a prisoner
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Seriously? I thought you'd done this way clever thing where you pulled some of the strokes out of the pen-marks that make each letter: BECKS PLCKS Thus your joke about PLTZ [Ritz]. Blake: anvil, I assumed. Just not very meaningful to me. Chicago will be a quick abortive thing, much like the side-trip with Doris.
Thank you! All I was saying. I know that's weird for a soap, sometimes, but it has happened before, seems to me, & it sure felt like it was happening here.
THANK you!
Actually... I think that one may be easy, now that I'm past my snit: he's Olivia's Good Man. He's there for the same structural reason Thomas was. Olivia doesn't want him. Which she made real clear. And (imo) it's equally clear he really is that obtuse & does not know about Natalia. Confiding in people before--when she was figuring things out--was one thing. Confiding in people during (like Doris), another. But confiding in someone now, when it might for all she knows, be over before it ever started... I can't see her doing that unless forced to. Makes total sense to me. It'd be humiliating. Also: Josh has consistently been portrayed as more sensitive than that, & I have trouble thinking our former lay (polite cough) minister would be that disrespectful of her feelings, if he did in fact know. |
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| solitasolano | Jul 22 2009, 05:49 AM Post #422 |
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Let’s hear it for ponytails!!!!!!!!! First off, yay, we got the reverse angle from yesterday (on camera this time) in the Recap of the “everything just feels wrong” dialog. I’m struck how Phlip’s and Alan’s camping dialog frames some themes for Olivia and Otalia in general…don’t know the theater related term for such a device, sure there is one. P- “Not only do we not know how to get back, we don’t know how to go forward.” (Olivia yesterday worried about stepping back and having it all go away. Fr Ray tells Natalia to run towards something.) A- “You’ve got to try to stop trying to fix everything…..Let life unfold.” (Contrasts how Olivia operates vs. how Natalia does.) or, A- “We are who we are.” P - “And we should accept that and never try to improve ourselves?”…(Olivia’s in improvement mode these days.) P- “That’s why I stayed away as long as I did, because it’s easier. Because I was scared.” (Gad, seems everyone’s scared in SF.) Or, finally, A- “I didn’t just let it happen (a chronic criticism of Natalia who is perceived by some of just letting things happen to her). I made it happen. (Ms. Spencer’s modus operandi and always trying to “fix it”.) Agreed. On the one hand the character, Josh, is being used to further demonstrate to the non-choir members, that the presence and attention of “a good man” does not trump being in love with a woman. Beside, both Olivia and Josh want “the real thing”. That’s from a flirt way back in Feb or March over martinis in the bar. I also don’t think he quite gets what, or rather who is bothering Olivia. Olivia promises him next time she’ll be good company. We’ll see. Love how Crystal Chappell’s face can turn from strength to vulnerability in a nanosecond like when she asks Blake, “Do you think Natalia’s going to come back? She asks it confidently, looks up, and then her whole expression mushes to doubt. Great stuff. I read both of Blake’s answers to Olivia questions as telling Olivia, yes, Natalia will come back and, no, you didn’t do anything to drive her away. Still, the woman cannot catch a break. Olivia has been pleading for someone to help her find Natalia and get her back, the nun, now Blake. Finally Remy hears her. Olivia moves back into “make it happen” mode, starting to get her groove back. The “back to your roots” Blake quote. I don’t have a clue what this could be about save a possible rather oblique reference to being 16 and pregnant and kicked out of your house, like it’s supposed to be a hint that Natalia is pregnant. This viewer knows very little about Olivia’s roots, her family. This newbie only knows it appears Olivia Spencer has been married to every male in town. Can someone point me to a link that may cover all this in devious soap detail. Seems I saw one once. |
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| molsongrrrl | Jul 22 2009, 06:07 AM Post #423 |
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G2 landing
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All About Olivia This link will provide you more info than you probably need about Olivia Spencer! I sort of went to the same place with Blake's "back to your roots" thing today solitasolano - but who knows if that's what was really meant. It is rather interesting that Natalia and Olivia do share a very similar past in that of being single mothers at the age of 16. Olivia was raped by Jeffery when she was 16 (which was later rewritten to be a drunken ... night of him vaguely hurting her and now of course he's a wonderful man). She got pregnant and while telling her mom - her mom collapsed and died shortly afterwards. Olivia gave up her baby (Ava) but ended up basically raising her brother Sam - who was very little at the time of their mother's death (Spencer dad was already dead). Anyway, I'm tired of the Cooper's. I think Blake could have just said "Listen Olivia - Natalia didn't leave town because of anything you did." and still kept Natalia's secret. The Spaulding's are still pretty interesting. Oh and I really loved the whole eating chips in the bathroom thing today. That about covers it for me! |
| There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure. | |
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| ekny | Jul 22 2009, 06:40 AM Post #424 |
In love with a prisoner
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Holy crap! I clicked on that link & ran away. Very scary. ![]() I never did see the 1 quoted scene, oddly enough, of Olivia saying goodbye to Gus: has anyone?? Supposedly March 31, 08? Solitasolano, great post, thanks! I cannot at this late date convince myself I need to watch the rest of this, much less bear it, but you made a pretty neat argument for the parallel-themes/Sermon of the Day presentation Cagey has noted in previous posts. Very interesting to see that stuff transcribed.
I save the coming attractions & watch them about a month after they've aired. Yeah yeah, we all know I'm gaga about spoilers. But what I can't help seeing is the first frame on some of them (and yes, i actually DO try to shield that part of the screen from my eyes when downloading: sometimes I'm not fast enough when the page first comes up). (Yes, again: not well. I know, okay?) So I don't know from ponytails, but I. Cough. Am a little... concerned. Because Lo, I have seen a shot of Olivia in shades. And Yea... this could very well do me in. |
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| solitasolano | Jul 22 2009, 06:44 AM Post #425 |
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Thanks molsongrrrl, that's the page I had seen. OMG, Olivia Spencer's story reads like a soap opera....Oh wait.... :rolleyes: Me too, but is that something someone with a hearttransplant and a pacemaker should be eating? Oh wait....Great bit none the less. ![]() ETA: Shades plus the ponytail.
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| molsongrrrl | Jul 22 2009, 06:58 AM Post #426 |
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G2 landing
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Here ya go ekny: March 31 2008 Part 1 March 31 2008 Part 2 March 31 2008 Part 3 I hope these are what you're looking for!
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| There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure. | |
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| ekny | Jul 22 2009, 07:12 AM Post #427 |
In love with a prisoner
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Thx Molsongrrrl, will dl tomorrow! --e
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| traveller | Jul 22 2009, 02:25 PM Post #428 |
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G2 landing
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I was thinking about what Blake meant when she told Olivia to go back to her roots. When Olivia was a teenager in San Cristobel she was raped in a one night stand with Jeffrey O'Neill. As a result of teenage rape, she gave birth to a baby girl (Ava Peralta) in 1986 which she gave up for adoption. Then the marriage to Alan and his fake heart attack. Remember when Phillip went to visit Olivia at the Beacon, and, with no reason to deny their feelings, they wildly made love. Still confused about whether to end her marriage to Alan, in January 2003, Olivia left town to visit her sister and clear her head. While away, she made her choice and sent Phillip a priority letter saying she wanted to be with him. Tons more angst ensued with Alan, finally ending in a divorce. Then her marriage to Phillip when he found out she was pregnant with Emma. He didn't love her but married her for the sake of the baby. Lizzie was jealous of Olivia and the baby and she did everything in her power to try and destroy Olivia. Then Phillip and his breakdown. What a fiasco that was. Olivia decided she had to get as far away from Lizzie as possible and left Springfield. Olivia returned and after more angst with Phillip and his breakdown they ended in divorce. So, if Olivia was to go back to her roots, she has had two pregnancies that involved one night stands. She also left town twice to think about her relationships and what she wanted. Is this what Blake could be referring to ??? If it is, this road trip to Chicago isn't the answer. Will Olivia be able to get out of her own way and realize that she had issues that caused her to run in the past and that Natalia needs time to do the same for herself. Natalia's departure has nothing to do with rejecting Olivia. It has everything to do with Nat loving Liv and her fears around this pregnancy. Will Olivia still want her and want to be a family together now that Natalia is pregnant with Frank's baby? Natalia leaving town with no note/communication just intensifies all Olivia's fears. Liv has to deal with herself and work out her personal issues concerning self worth before she can move ahead with Nat. The fact is, deep down, they both know how they feel about each other. They want it all. Love, desire, friendship, family ... a future. They chose each other! But, because of their past, both women need to deal with their insecurities, shame, conflict and self esteem issues so they can move forward together in a healthy loving, open relationship. Just a few thoughts ... what do you think or am I really out on a limb ?? |
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Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt | |
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| cagey | Jul 22 2009, 03:01 PM Post #429 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Traveller That was a complete and concise view of how I see things too, so I hope there's room out on the limb. |
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| abzug | Jul 22 2009, 03:40 PM Post #430 |
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In love with a prisoner
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My inner dyke child remembers Top Gun and Kelly McGillis, and there's nothing I can do but swoon over a woman in aviators (or aviators-lite, as Olivia is wearing). Great discussion here. I got home so late last night (from the Paul McCartney concert at CitiField! Soooooooo fantastic!) and only slept 4 hours, so I'm a bit of a spaz today. So sorry for anything incoherent I might write. The "roots" line is the most mysterious. I mean, I think we're supposed to realize Olivia misinterprets it. Blake didn't mean for Liv to investigate Nat's Chicago past and go chasing after her there. But I really don't have a clue as to what Blake DID mean. I mean, the "your" could have referred to Olivia in the singular, or Olivia and Natalia as a couple. Or Olivia could have heard the plural "your" while Blake meant the singular "your." Or vice versa. I just don't know. I'm looking forward to today's ep. And sorry for giving wrong info about what days Liv would be on. I think many people were surprised to see her on yesterday's ep, not just me. And I guess now it's for sure she's on Thursday, so she's on every day this week? Seems like a crazy amount of screentime, although I'm not complaining. I just hope we get as many episodes once Nat is back. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
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| solitasolano | Jul 22 2009, 05:10 PM Post #431 |
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Thanks molsongrrrl and traveler for the Olivia history lesson. I'm reminded that it was only one month ago on page 10 of this thread that I delurked. I had noticed a spike in activity in this thread, I read. One month ago I had never seen a signal show or youtube. I had never heard of Crystal Chappell (seems impossible but true). Thanks goddess for some light work weeks and I could catch up. ![]() That's the only thing I can think of too. Seems like Olivia misreads the hint offered. Well said and right on, hopefully no limbs will be involved. |
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| abzug | Jul 22 2009, 09:43 PM Post #432 |
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In love with a prisoner
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So, interesting. Today's ep wasn't what I expected. It was kind of like the entire thing was manufactured to bring Josh and Olivia together again, and even that didn't have much of a payoff: she seemed to want to tell him about Natalia, and he stopped her, probably because he already knows? The two scenes with Emma were really good. I'm not sure what to say about them, other than that they made clear that Olivia has become progressively more unhinged this week. I mean, last week she was moping, but this week, post-Jeffrey news, she's completely lost her bearings, has no judgment whatsoever, nor any self-control. She's become completely fixated on finding Natalia, and can't think about anything or anyone else, and it's definitely disturbing to watch, because she knows what's happening to her, and she still can't stop herself from going off the deep end. I almost wish they hadn't included her (very short) storyline in this episode, because it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. We already knew she was fucking up as a mother. We already knew she was starting to lean on Josh, in a platonic way for her, and a less-platonic way for him. (Are they leading somewhere with that? Will it make Nat jealous when she gets back?) So why have these 4 minutes of Olivia in this episode? The only thing I can think of is that whatever happens in the coming episodes this week, it's important for us viewers to know that Olivia has continued to try to find Natalia, that she didn't give up after the road trip with Doris. If that's all we needed to know, I wish they had written it a bit more effectively. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
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| solitasolano | Jul 23 2009, 01:12 AM Post #433 |
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Not sure what today was about for Otalia. The biggest moment was when Emma told her mom., “You’re scaring me.” That registered with Olivia, but I didn’t see that see did anything with the insight except leave Jellybean home. Emma is sure to figure in again, she always does. In fact, I want to say that the Otalia s/l on GL would not have worked nearly as well if the young actress who plays Emma, Jacqueline Tsirkin, wasn’t so up to the task. She has really done her part in pulling the Otalia wagon wherever it has gone and is going. For two years now she has been delivering the lines and performances as catalyst and glue for their “family.” Emma is also the voice of reason, “Why don’t we just call her,” where her mom falls short at times (like lugging around your spare handcuffs to cuff yourself in a strange bare in a strange town). I marvel and appreciate how the Olivia/Emma mother/daughter is written and performed. CC and Jennifer are really great together as well as with her other mommy. The character and actress has really added to my enjoyment of this whole thing.Why Josh won’t let Olivia give him an explanation when in her words, “it was a good explanation” I’m not at all sure. What good does it do the story for Josh to already know instead of a reveal? Is it to make Natalia jealous? I don’t see this. I mean even with Olivia and Gus, she just claimed her territory, Gus, without being motivated by jealousy. I don’t know where TPTB would be going with this. More themes from all the SF gang which also fit the Olivia/Otalia saga: Reva to Shanye: “You’re lucky you found her. You take good care of her. A good relationship is worth so much more than anything else.” Dinah about Jeffrery: “…into his family. He made us believe we can all have that, and if we can’t, that’s what we want.” Mallet to Marina: “Does it help to keep secrets?” Shanye to Dinah: “Everything is going to be okay.” (That gets said by someone at the beginning of the episode also…is it Olivia herself?) Everything is going to be alright. Way back in February Olivia says to Bill in her first feeling about Natalia confession, “I just want someone to say everything is going to be alright.” Gee, do you think the writers just draw dialog clichés out of a bowl when writing some of this stuff? Bad line of the show: “I got time. I can hang out here.” Olivia as she shackles herself in some unknown bar in Chicago. Bring on the aviators and ponytail!!!! |
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| cagey | Jul 23 2009, 02:38 AM Post #434 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Off hand I would say Olivia going to Chicago today mirrored Reva going to Florida. And most of the folks in Springfield think Reva is just short of completely nuts right now. She was also very black comedy relief for the show today.
I agree with both of you that Olivia has seriously unhinged. Speaking of post Jeffrey attitude shift on her part, I am thinking back to her "they are dropping like flies" comment. At first I thought she meant Gus and now Jeffrey, but now I am wondering if she meant her support system, such as it is - first Natalia, now Jeffrey. With both of them gone, she has no one she can confide in. Which brings us back to Josh - which I don't think is setting up anything about jealousy with Nat upon her return. (And did we not hear Jonesy the bartender did call her Nat?). If anyone is going to intervene - send her to Ravenswood (oh sweet jesus no!) or slap her into reality, I think it is going to be him. Or Ava - Ava doing some of her own Spencer brand bedside manner would do as well.
ETA: I think an argument could be made that Olivia has been borderline off her rocker since the heart issue first came up. She was completely nuts throughout the Gus thing, which we explain by her fear of dying, she was completely nuts during most of the recovery period, which we explain by her survivor guilt, and the only time she started acting "normal" was when she began to feel her connection to Natalia. I go back to Emma saying "you're scaring me" as the reason for this escapade. One does not want to suggest psychotic break with only six weeks left, but our girl has reached the end of the rope. But then she's not the only one about to break apart around town. |
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| ekny | Jul 23 2009, 02:42 AM Post #435 |
In love with a prisoner
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So. The angst I was fine with: it felt real. This--does not. Not just today, but parts of this whole week. There's no time left: *what* are they dicking around for? Oh, right. It's a soap. Silly me. Sigh. Molsongrrrl mentioned having heard abt a scene where Olivia thinks she sees Natalia & dashes madly off after her. Maybe it was a spoiler; maybe it was a scene that got cut. Either way, disaster idea. Thankful for small mercies, eh what. Why *isn't* she dealing with Rafe, for example? Who is apparently too stupid to know his mom's cut and run. They could reach detente. Something. If there is no happy-families resolution to that part of the s/l it would pain me not at all. Cuz a) I don't care about Rafe, and b ) it would actually feel realistic. And c ) Rafe has been a mess for long enough that I am not convinced as to the superiority of Natalia's mothering skills. Theory 1: Olivia is not dealing w/Rafe so that The Good Man can fix things up there. Because Theory 2: Now that Frank's f----d over his own Fabulous Family... where else does he have to go, to redeem himself? That's it, I got nothin' else. What a waste of film. And they pay CC extra for more than 2 eps a week? For this? Are they mad? |
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--e
Traveller

8:46 AM Jul 11