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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,258 Views) | |
| cagey | Jul 28 2009, 02:35 AM Post #511 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Quite right you are - in the sense of making a positive statement and not having it dragged out of them. Olivia's "no honey I'm not" was pitch perfect Mother In Pain - sharing how messed up she is with her daughter but in a way designed not to make the daughter freak out too much.
Much as I don't need to see it, I am hoping maybe it's time for Rafe to have a little chat with Gus about human frailty and love and all that stuff so he can stop being such a little pissant. Speaking of pissants - I also read today that Jeffrey had sex with Reva's then 19 year old daughter Marah. Looks like the crash landing shaved his beard and lightened his hair. So is the non-funeral over now? Can we return to plot developments? Cause it's raining baby references in Springfield. Baby Colin is the "key" for Reva to "find herself again." And now I forget who but some Cooper was going to fight for his/her family because it is too important and there is too much to lose not to. I am looking at these mentions in the best rosy colored light. Everyone is fighting for a family. That Paley Center Forum should be a grand free-for-all - can't wait for the report back! Could someone tweet CC a link to the ek's epic? |
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| abzug | Jul 28 2009, 02:45 AM Post #512 |
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In love with a prisoner
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It's not a spoiler. It's a pessimistic interpretation of the mood.
She gets a zillion tweets, I'm sure she can't/doesn't read all of them. Couldn't someone email her on e's behalf? E, would you be ok with that? |
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| ekny | Jul 28 2009, 03:13 AM Post #513 |
In love with a prisoner
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Ok. Sure that's fine. <squirm> Sigh. Sorry the rest of this isn't very clear but I found today's ep really... weird & confusing, somehow.
It's like being on intravenous, isn't it? (Although the scene clocked in at 1.45 or thereabouts. But yeah, it's from hunger. Maybe once the histrionics with Jeffrey are done we can get this road on the show.) 1) Maybe it was my clip but I don't think so. Ava's voice sounded canned during the scene with Remy. I wondered how they had them miked. I cannot imagine this crew doing a overdub after the shoot, but her voice did not sound like it was filmed live. Maybe the mike was too far away or with the wrong filter? Sorry, just small technical questions.
She definitely rocked it. But I found the tone very interesting as well, although perhaps for different reasons. 2) Only saw the 4 minutes with Liv + Ava/Remy so as usual, have not much context. Went back to look at Olivia's statement to Ava to see how it might have looked/sounded to their presumably straight mainstream audience, because I'm far enough inside the story now I have to remind myself to do that, periodically. We have Ava saying she doesn't really belong in Springfield any more, & Olivia getting told by Phillip she has the whole town behind her. And I'm like: oh really? And Olivia's like: oh really? O: I just feel like I'm dealing w/everything on my own. (This is because she is.) P: I don't think that's true. You're a huge part of this town, you're connected to practically everybody. O: Why do I feel so alone? This seemed kind of disturbing, as scriptwriting. Not in a major way, but why exactly are Olivia's perceptions being challenged/called into question by Phillip, who is once again a pretty important part of her life? It's a matter of 'how she feels' rather than what is, in fact, the case. So I'm bugged by that perception/fact divide (again, between female pov & Guiding/Advising Male). I expect it's a minor note; sort of a compromise between Is Olivia losing her shit (which at this point it seems the answer to is: clearly not, duh) and Gee, doesn't Olivia have a valid point here? All I can think is this is their way of making that evident to the Gay Couples for Dummies viewers they think they're addressing. It's not a real satisfactory conclusion. I wish the woman playing Ava hadn't sort of smirked her way through it. I realize she was looking for pleasantly blank incomprehension but it just didn't work, for me. She lives in SF, hello? (CC's work indeed did rock, hugely. With a very complicated scene, it seems to me: not for what was being said but where it's positioned in the narrative.) So: textbook coming out in optimal circumstances [supportive adult daughter], and still Olivia has to work work work to get there. 1) special person; 2) naming special person of-same-gender; 3) specifying relationship [taught me how to love]; 4) oh for chrissakes we're in love alright already! 3) But: assuming Olivia's been shaken to her foundation by Natalia leaving, she is still behaving as if they will be a couple upon Natalia's return. And this scene makes that clear in a different way than the crying & raging scenes. Which is great--totally great--but felt like a deeply strange shift in gears. Her confidence, that is. So all things considered, the fact that she played it just as she did is pretty interesting & was beyond right on the money. I mean: scriptwise, it's confusing, emotionally, for the audience to follow in one way. (Or at least me.) But as a statement it is totally clear. As for the scene at the end, it seemed like that might also be another Tune-in-tomorrow thing, with Rafe. (Ugh. Hope not.) Compensations: we actually got to see Olivia deliver the line about more than anyone ever, rather than hear it over a different visual. Is that bracketing deliberate, & if so, what does it signal? Her crying in this scene (cf: Abzug's definition of CC shedding tears like Eskimos define snow) was awesome. Seriously. 4) Not to go overboard, but speaking to Gus is pretty much as close as Olivia gets to praying. I mean if you decontextualize where she is & who she's talking to: this is a form of prayer, is it not? Should we be disturbed Olivia is praying to a dead white guy who is not-god, or kinda glad, metaphorically, she's praying to something she's internalized (Gus's heart: IT'S A METAPHOR GEDDID?!) --sorry, sorrysorry, couldn't resist--these soaps, so cute-- in the same way she told Doris she was powerful, too? I'm glad they haven't pushed those things very much bec I don't care to see O. smacked down any harder for her hubris. Perhaps the scriptwriters are letting this one slide? --yrs in cognitive dissonance, e |
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| cagey | Jul 28 2009, 04:00 AM Post #514 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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I am beginning to suspect that the writers have run out of plot. :ph43r: The way the "memorial" just sort of dribbled away like a bad party leaves me thinking someone is awaiting the next shipment of pages from the writer's bunker. Reva - still pissed off; Olivia - still alone; Mallet and Marina - still not trusting; Buzz - still clueless; Shayne and Dinah - still fucking. Which is to say, it was a weird and confusing sort of episode. Still very sad and mournful but the sadness and mourning seems to be about the living people in Springfield not the supposedly dead rapist. |
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| ekny | Jul 28 2009, 06:06 AM Post #515 |
In love with a prisoner
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Oh man. I was emailing w/a friend about the thumb-ring, & said, hey, is it me or what? And she wb:"and...the thumb ring. no...not for the hets. in fact, i'm pretty sure a thumb ring is the second gayest thing you can do with a finger." |
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| ekny | Jul 28 2009, 02:55 PM Post #516 |
In love with a prisoner
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Sheer speculation: any first substantial meeting between O & N will take place outside. All their important Relationship meetings have happened outdoors. |
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| Jeanna | Jul 28 2009, 02:59 PM Post #517 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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I've never known anyone with a thumb ring, it's an accoutrement after my time I have to assume. Where is the derivation as a gay symbol? Where is it coming from? Other than the obvious O around the ever supple Opposable thumb, a hand-y device. I looked up a definition on wiki and all it tells me is that it's originally derived from archery. Ooookay....and then the only inferences my mind can draw read thusly... Archery--Artemis/Diana--amazons |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| Jeanna | Jul 28 2009, 03:00 PM Post #518 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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Yes, I agree. I'm expecting a return to the GoL to be first on the agenda. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| cagey | Jul 28 2009, 03:06 PM Post #519 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Keep in mind, that thumb isn't CC's - it's Olivia's ![]() As to their first meeting happening out of doors: I love that this notion that major developments in their relationship happen outside, but I really can't buy that this is a specific choice on the part of the writers or directors. Couples can have special places outside where they have certain conversations - say the bench at the FoL. Outdoors is the neutral place for all encounters between the characters in GL. It is also the community public space and the locus of all community affirming celebrations. |
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| abzug | Jul 28 2009, 03:31 PM Post #520 |
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In love with a prisoner
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OK, but wait a second--she feels alone, but is she? Christina took care of Emma when she forgot to pick her up. Philip got her at the church when she couldn't drive. Josh kept her company at the bar, and then drove to Chicago to bail her out, and didn't want anything in return. Doris went driving halfway around Illinois with her. So she's got a support system, in reality. It's just she doesn't have the emotional support one gets from one's lover, and she feels alone and bereft without that (having just spent a weekend in Boston away from my gf, I'm in touch with this loneliness and agitation, on a personal level). So both Olivia and Philip are speaking the truth in this scene. They're just kind of talking about different things.
The more I think about it, the more bothered I am that she didn't play any agitation/nervousness. I liked her nurturing take (which was totally against the text--this is what makes CC a good soap actor: She usually doesn't play what's literally on the page, but instead tunes into the more complex emotions underlying the scene and plays those), but if she was so confident of her love, then why did it take her three tries to actually say it? In that sense the scene was written well, but CC fucked it up by not having some level of tension/anxiety about how Ava would react, about her really NEEDING her daughter to be positive about it, and not knowing how she would deal if Ava wasn't. I think this might be the first time CC has played something in a way which didn't feel gay. Like, usually in every scene she seems to have an intuitive understanding of the complex way a gay person inhabits the world, and builds relationships and talks about things. But this time, not so much. Like, it hadn't occurred to her that Olivia might be nervous? I know Olivia is uber-confident, and doesn't care what people think, but doesn't she care what her daughter thinks?
I'm choosing the positive take on this one, especially because she never asks Gus's permission for anything, she just tells him what's up, and advocates for herself, and her capabilities as a lover of Natalia. I'm trying to think if she ever has said to anyone else that she can make Natalia happy? Have those statements only been to Gus, or in front of Gus's grave? Not to Frank, certainly. To Philip? I can't recall. And as much as she has talked to Doris, it's been more about her desires and her happiness, not her ability to be a good girlfriend and make Nat happy. Why is this something she talks about with Gus, and no one else? Because of the heart connection? B/c she doesn't think it's anyone else's business, or that anyone else cares if she's going to take care of Nat? |
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| Jeanna | Jul 28 2009, 03:47 PM Post #521 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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I'm thinking Liv already had some talks leading up to this with Ava when she went to S.F. after the spa trip. There was spec (esp. in fanfic) that she would have told her then, but apprently not. And I'm glad we got this scene on camera. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| ekny | Jul 28 2009, 03:54 PM Post #522 |
In love with a prisoner
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Neatly done. Okay, I can see that. Thanks!I'll have to think more about the coming out scene--it's obviously Important--but the more I've turned it over, the more it kinda... does make sense to me. Something about Abzug's comments made me bounce off of it differently. She's not nervous about telling her daughter this because Olivia--unlike Natalia--has done the work in her head. That's not what she's worried about. She's worried about Natalia, period. That's the point in the scene where she falls apart. As an actor, she can't be weeping & hysterical throughout the whole scene, she has only about a minute and a half to hit a lot of beats, here. So the whole coming-out-to-adult-daughter-she-didn't-raise-who-lives-in-another-part-of-the-country... that really does not strike me as something Olivia needs to sweat, at this point. Is it very very important to her? Sure. But she knows how *she* feels about this. She no longer has the first clue what the hell's going on with the woman she'd like to go there with. All of her emotional eggs are in that basket. In this way she's entirely consistent with the Olivia we've always known. Name-calling doesn't phase her. It hasn't really phased her for very long at any point in this narrative. That's not what her baggage is about. Cagey, isn't it possible that despite GL's accidental use of outdoors sets for everyone, this still does empower (forgive me) our couple by treating them the same? I mean, that's been the piss-off about the kissing, all along. At least here, in this indirect way--that's not at issue. --e
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| abzug | Jul 28 2009, 04:24 PM Post #523 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I'm with e on this one. Scenes staged in the semi-private, but still outdoors, FoL porch are significant. They could have been staged inside the house and weren't. This relationship is developing in the public world, in the community. It's not secret and hidden away. Even more significant, in my mind, is that the outdoor scenes in the winter (pre-wedding) were often at night, while now their outdoor scenes are always during the day. I heard rumor that today is the last day they're filming outdoor scenes for the show, which means if we are getting a kiss outside, it's already been filmed. I can't decide if I'd rather there be no kiss than an indoor kiss. I think I'd prefer an indoor kiss, but not by much. I wanted their first kiss to be at the gazebo. :-) |
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| Jeanna | Jul 28 2009, 04:35 PM Post #524 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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*sigh* Me too. No chance they could've had a moment of privacy to film that with all those fans hanging out and taking pics recently. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| abzug | Jul 28 2009, 05:41 PM Post #525 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I'm understanding the Bad Girls season 3 panic more and more. Each time I hear about (or think about) how many weeks of episodes are left, or when they are going to be done filming, I get this knot in my stomach. Like, a real fear of the impending loss. And not knowing if the couple will be concluded in the way they deserve. I imagine UK viewers felt exactly this as season 3 was coming to a close, they knew Simone was leaving, weren't sure about Mandana, and meanwhile Helen and Nikki are becoming more estranged, Helen is developing a relationship with Thomas, episodes and episodes go by without them being on, or without them having scenes together. I would have been in quite a state! I mean, when Nat comes back, if we only get two Otalia episodes a week, I will be beside myself with panic/fury/disappointment. |
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Thanks!
8:46 AM Jul 11