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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,289 Views)
molsongrrrl
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Quote:
 
Did you hear what she was doing near the start of yesterday's first scene?


Hee. I sure did. In fact, I think I've watched just that "God you are so beautiful" bit about (mumbles) times! Also the little stumble she added to the word happens when she was saying if sex never happens. CC is just made of awesome.


Quote:
 
but the end-date doesn't make me any happier now than it did before


I'm not at all happy about the end-date. Truthfully, the news of CC going to DOOL hit me much harder than the GL cancellation announcement. I suppose because I'd just gotten back to GL when it was cancelled and hadn't quite gotten as invested in Otalia yet. Now I'm fully invested - so yeah painful.


Quote:
 
And it's got to be a pleasure to play


The writing she's been getting in this particular storyline will never be matched at DOOL. Trust me on that. Even during some of its better years, nothing on DOOL came close. It's a huge step down for her. It really is.



Quote:
 
But having to make the best of a shitty situation when you've spent your whole life half-starved for decent media sucks for all of us.


Wordy McWord.
There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure.
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ekny
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For me it was the delivery right before the thing about being terrified, even more. Faaahk.

molson
 
Truthfully, the news of CC going to DOOL hit me much harder than the GL cancellation announcement.

Ditto. Also I think there was some denial going on, for me. Fascinating because you can do it and know you're doing it and it still works. Until it stops.

As for DOOL--dude, I don't need to watch to believe you. I hope they're paying her a shit-ton.
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abzug
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I don't check this thread for a day and a half, and holy crap, I missed so much! I don't really have anything to add, just that I agree with everyone's points about how great CC is, how awesome this storyline has been, and how she's not going to get any material which comes close in the soap genre. I am a bit too hopeful for her lesbian web series, given that it's just in the concept phase. I shouldn't count on anything happening with it, but I can imagine CC is VERY interested in playing a similar storyline, but where the characters can actually KISS when it makes sense, rather than when the network says it's ok.

I'm also one of those people who is ok with the end date. I mean, sad as hell, but glad for what will be a happy ending. And despite the fact that Bad Girls was able to plan Helen and Nikki's ending, I don't think it was the most successful romance ending ever. I mean, for one thing, it was WAY too fast, and as I've said elsewhere on this board, I hate that they used the ending for suspense. I didn't need to wait til the last 10 minutes of Helen and Nikki's screen time to find out that they would wind up together. Using the resolution of their relationship in this way has always bothered me a LOT. The ending for Cassie and Roisin was MUCH better, as far as I am concerned, no matter what lovely symbolism the writers and directors brought into the post-trial scene for Helen and Nikki.

PS I'm glad others share my feelings about BPD. I was feeling a little bit like the one person who wasn't having fun at this huge party. It's a relief to find out some other folks don't think it's the most amazing party in the world either. :-)
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ekny
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Totally. It's not my job to cheerlead a show. And if I wanted a peer-review edit I would submit my comments for vetting. This board has always been superb for its laissez-faire approach to free speech.


ETA: actually, I made a comment early on over there that got me spanked in record time; otoh, also in record time, someone PM'd me to say You go; that she was a lurker but wanted me to know I wasn't the only one to hold that opinion. So I thought that was interesting. & that there's probably a fair amount of that going on, too, in the background.
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
ekny
Jun 13 2009, 11:27 AM
The fact that CC is so clearly not only supportive but genuinely interested in continuing, even now, tells me something too. Actors know when to get out of weak roles; seasoned actors, especially. Every sign suggests she wants in, for real--and who could blame her. This role has legs. It is a genuinely big deal. There are actors who work their whole lives and never get half that lucky--right role, right time in the actor's life and career, writers and actors engaging in a mutual process... and the chance to make a difference.

Yes...it's true. And she does know it.

And not only have they been working overtime to try and save the show...but CC has actively been pitching the idea of an "Otalia" spin-off. I don't know if that was to Lifetime or have any more info on it than that, but... Again...all those channels...including Logo...and that idea can't find a place in the 24/7 schedule? Could this BE any more topical to this time in u.s. history when practically every state has a gay marriage battle going on, and when more and more mainstream families look like this one? Besides all the press, a growing fanbase, and being the hottest couple in daytime...Lifetime couldn't step up to the plate, or Oxygen, or one of these other supposedly inclusive networks for women? Foolishness.
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Quote:
 
I'm probably in a minority but the end-date doesn't make me any happier now than it did before. I didn't want to watch forever, but everything I've learned about how soaps work and how supercouples are built suggests to me this story had at least a two-year trajectory. We're basically only getting about 10 months of year 1. Yes I know the build up was from spring 2008 or so (have seen all the material from late 2007 on), but if you start at about last October, when things really began to accelerate... we was robbed.


My mantra. And we continue to be robbed by no one out there at least picking up the Olivia/Natalia portion of this show when, apparently, that could be a possibility and is on offer.

I fallback to my previous position on April 1st of a shiver of paranoid homophobia detection when Leslie or whomever at CBS went over the head of Programming to pull the plug.


Quote:
 
There was plenty of space for any number of developments between this couple and the community w/o having to do the betrayal/angst/affair/baby nonsense. Add to that delays on account of the pregnancy, and trying to hold off after the April 1 cancellation on certain aspects of plotting til things were more clear... and that sure feels like Shortchanged, to me.


Indeed. And you're right of course. And...the thing about this and why CC loved it, and JLH and EW and the 'new production model' and all that...was the more naturalistic style and this story, unlike a lot of soap stories, was getting a much more realistic treatment. As to the typical soap conventions, Nat didn't marry Frank, she ran out of that church before the cancellation notice came down. They were already moving the story forward. If they'd wanted to write in the pregnancy...they had, forgive me, more than ample opportunity to do so.


Quote:
 
Plus it's got to be a pleasure to play, because it's a huge pleasure to watch. (Her voicework is amazing--the thing abt studying with Meisner made total sense when I first saw that. Did you hear what she was doing near the start of yesterday's first scene? Goddamn.) So... we were all robbed.


I was all aquiver. I'm all aquiver now reading your prose. I am in love with these paragraphs and this fangirl you have hidden from me lo these many...hell, it seems like months longer than it's actually been to me.


Quote:
 
However, I'm ambivalent about the idea of getting a happy ending in this way, have been for awhile.

Or--to put it another way: we didn't have to feel grateful that the only reason Series 3 ended as it did was some sort of lucky accident. It was fully intentional from the start. The format didn't get in the way. Shed used and subverted the genre for their own purposes. Here... some of that is happening, but it's happening, at least in part, despite the format rather than because of it.

The Otalia story doesn't just push at the edges of the genre's structural confines: it has in fact exceeded its parameters, its mandate. It seems no accident that is happening as the entire genre is dying--it may be that it can only happen because the genre is dying. It requires a massive breakdown in the type of formulaic plotting that defines soap operas.


*in love with words* And yes. Yes. There it is. The 'new production model' hated by some, scoffed at by others (in fact, by the dork who runs DOOL, I do believe) which, admittedly, had a rocky start is/was the way to go, but will never be vindicated now. The oldest running drama was struggling to change or die.

Quote:
 
I am very grateful for what we got, here. I am full of admiration for CC's mad skillz. I haven't seen that sort of comedic star-power since the romantic comedies of the late-30s & 40s


OK, so this is where I keeled over a bit and had to look at the poster's name again to double check that it was indeed my friend ekny. Flabbergastery noises here. I didn't even think you'd seen the romantic comedies of any period let alone that one. (Funny, you don't look that old. <G>) *sputters* *gasps* *coughs* *dies* If I were out in a pouring rain when I read that, agape as I became, I would be drowned. Where is my e. and what have you done with her?

And...I have to say, I think CC is one of the best actresses on u.s. tv period. Daytime, night time, any time. Comedy, tragedy. Girl has it goin on. Internal made external on a heartbeat, no doubt, no hesitation, real deal, as someone said somewhere, you believe every word that comes out of her mouth.



Quote:
 
(I'd give my eyeteeth to see her do something in any other genre, esp an evening drama on HBO or Showtime).



Really? <G> I'll match your tooths. But seriously... casting directors who don't notice her work on GL, esp. the past two years, esp. after a well deserved Emmy nom. next yr. (a scandal if she doesn't get one) and this resulting media and fan hubbub are asleep on the job and worthless if they don't tag her for soemthing better. She deserves that. She's earned it.

Quote:
 
But for myself, for many us, really--having to make the best of a shitty situation when you've spent your whole life half-starved for decent media sucks. And is in large part why this recent news was so depressing, for me, anyway: the suckage is cumulative. It's like waiting around for a meteor shower. And we are currently enjoying one. Afterwards, though, there's nothing but the nighttime sky again. Same as ever. It looks awfully dim, in comparison.


Oh, darlin' ... I need a cigarette. (And I don't smoke.) That was as good as eye sex, food sex, hand shagging, oh and Liv's palm kiss which was hotter than all 6 seasons of L Word put together.

Blue Moon...you saw me standing alone...

Loves e. a little more today than yesterday.


And furthermore, honey, I think I have a crush on this post. Why didn't you tell me any of this? Oh, you knew I'd see it sometime today? Right?

*hugs little e*

Damn. You know how I feel. I would have said exactly this...if my neurons were firing and I wasn't so spent from yesterday's tribulations.

One word about DOOL or DooL or Days...it is so garish and vulgar I can only ever look at a few mins. of it waiting for "Ellen" to come on...also...it will be very ironic if CC takes the family back to CA (which she's been wanting to do...but has stayed for GL and would stay for this story) and Days is the next soap to go. They are only renewed thru 2010. Obviously, they are recruiting old fan favorites to come back to boost ratings--just as GL attempted.
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cagey
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jeanna
 
And furthermore, honey, I think I have a crush on this post. Why didn't you tell you any of this? Oh, you knew I'd see it sometime today? Right?

*hugs little e*


I am tearing up here. :D Happy endings do that to me.

Do I have anything concrete to add to this sudden outpouring? Not so sure. As for picking up Otalia in any shape or form for another medium, I am ambivalent. I do think it would be better to start a new story and hope that whatever it is CC is trying to put together is successful. I am completely okay with Otalia being a story with an ending, but I agree that it is a shame that ending has to be rushed through the summer season and combined with what will be, I presume, many a final bow by long time GL cast members.

The New Production Model (sorry, I keep thinking the New Model Army, but that's what reading history will do for you) - it has completely changed how I view a soap, and I think will prevent me from watching DooL past CC's first appearance. Although the desperate speculation that Dr. Carly might have gone queer during her lengthy absence is enticing.

As for the scenes on Thurs and Fri - it was such a release. Also, mostly interested by how they both get choked up and inarticulate when discussing anything Really Important but vocal tone and pace returns to normal conversational levels once they get out of the danger zone. So, voice cracking and talking over each other about are they okay/not afraid of the sex; but back to normal over doing the I Love Olivia Dance.

And to acknowledge: ek, yes, you are spot on as always about the male intrusion. Rafe being outstanding in his field was far from subtle. But the Otalia binary is so strong. End of Friday, with them now not merely standing together but arms entwined pretty much sealed the deal.
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traveller
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Just caught up. Wow, you lot are fabulous. Very articulate and
a pleasure to read.

Quote:
 
The fact that CC is so clearly not only supportive but genuinely interested in continuing, even now, tells me something too. Actors know when to get out of weak roles; seasoned actors, especially. Every sign suggests she wants in, for real--and who could blame her. This role has legs. It is a genuinely big deal. There are actors who work their whole lives and never get half that lucky--right role, right time in the actor's life and career, writers and actors engaging in a mutual process... and the chance to make a difference.


Yes, so true and she knows it. This role has legs and the chemistry between Crystal & Jessica works extremely well. I don't think DooL is going to give CC the "Legs" she has on GL. Wouldn't be surprised if this is her motivation for trying to develop a Lesbian web story line.

From what I have seen on the web, I am sure CC would have a better opportunity (artistic freedom/licences) to tackle relevant social issues of importance to the GLBT community that TV is just not willing to broach?

Read an interesting article about YouTube

http://adage.com/digital/article?article_id=137140

I picked up on a comment CC made on her twitter page to a fan that asked her a question.

Q from fan - We loooove Kimmy. She told us we are getting girl/girl kissage in the webseries! Will u be one of said girls??

A from CC - I insisted.

Quote:
 
And...I have to say, I think CC is one of the best actresses on u.s. tv period. Daytime, night time, any time. Comedy, tragedy. Girl has it goin on. Internal made external on a heartbeat, no doubt, no hesitation, real deal, as someone said somewhere, you believe every word that comes out of her mouth.

But seriously... casting directors who don't notice her work on GL, esp. the past two years, esp. after a well deserved Emmy nom. next yr. (a scandal if she doesn't get one) and this resulting media and fan hubbub are asleep on the job and worthless if they don't tag her for something better. She deserves that. She's earned it.


I agree. This is CC's "time". She has paid her dues. I see Dool as a meal ticket at the moment and nothing more. I would hate to see her take too many steps backward.


Quote:
 
Despite the fact that Bad Girls was able to plan Helen and Nikki's ending, I don't think it was the most successful romance ending ever.

I agree. In Canada, BGs was transmitted after 2001 so even as I watched their final scene together, knowing what was about happen, I was heart broken. The ending could have been so much more than it was.

I am sure this is the main reason that I enjoy well written fanfic.
Thank god there are some very talented and creative authors that have managed to keep N&H's relationship alive via the written word. Eight years have passed since H&N left BGs and their story line has continued to draw an audience.

I wonder if the same thing will be said for Otalia? .

The characters, H&N and O&N, and the actors who portrayed them made an impression on me and I assure you that doesn't happen very often. I never felt this way about the L Word.

Quote:
 
PS I'm glad others share my feelings about BPD. I was feeling a little bit like the one person who wasn't having fun at this huge party. It's a relief to find out some other folks don't think it's the most amazing party in the world either. :-)


Oh you are not alone.

On BPD, BP Podcast and @crystallchappell twitter ... members/fans have had the opportunity to ask her questions etc.

I just shake my head and ask myself. What are you people thinking?

They do ask her some senseless questions. She must roll her eyes when she sees/hears them.

CC was live on BP Podcast last week and I was so embarrassed just listening. Here was a perfect opportunity for Q&A and open dialogue about issues that are discussed here at The H&N Message Board ref GL, her career, web design ideas etc and it was wasted.

All they kept on about was booze and when were O&N going to get down and dirty. Geez, what a missed opportunity. Thank god CC finally said good night and hung up. What a waste of her time. I suppose actors have to endure this from time to time. Gosh, BPP can do much better than this. Maybe I am showing my age, but is the art of engaging interviewing passe?

Quote:
 
ETA: actually, I made a comment early on over there that got me spanked in record time; otoh, also in record time, someone PM'd me to say You go; that she was a lurker but wanted me to know I wasn't the only one to hold that opinion. So I thought that was interesting. & that there's probably a fair amount of that going on, too, in the background.


Yes, you are right on the money ref background opinions. I have had some very interesting conversations with BPD members via PM.
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt

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molsongrrrl
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CC was live on BP Podcast last week and I was so embarrassed just listening.


Yeah, I listened to that one too - for my board - just to post some info if she said anything of interest (I did like hearing the bit about where Olivia's office suddenly came from and JL's pregnancy issues).

Overall, it was just plain embarrassing and got even worse when one of the kids (I don't care what their true ages may be - they all sound like teens to me - hormonal teens) said to CC "you look so hot in natural lighting" or something close to that. Seriously, I couldn't believe it. CC's eyes probably almost rolled out of her head at that point.

Someone said they thought another podcast was coming up with her and the folks from the purple board and I said after this announcement (DOOL), I'm no longer listening to any purple podcasts - my brain cannot take it.



Quote:
 
This is CC's "time". She has paid her dues. I see Dool as a meal ticket at the moment and nothing more.


Totally agree with this. Since she had to know GL was not getting picked up and her family wants to move back to Calidornia - she did what she had to to get that done. Good for her! Hopefully she can get some other projects going - esp the web series. I will follow whatever she does.
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traveller
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I'm no longer listening to any purple podcasts - my brain cannot take it.


LMAO .... just in case you change your mind

http://www.blogtalkradio.com:80/bigpurpler...dio-LIVE-BPP-18

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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molsongrrrl
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You are evil ... pure evil! :devil
There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure.
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traveller
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You are evil ... pure evil!


What can I say :girlygiggle
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abzug
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So it turns out you can read this board from a Blackberry, but not post to it. For someone who always has something to say, this was a very stressful turn of affairs. Luckily I'm back on the good ole laptop now.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
But seriously... casting directors who don't notice her work on GL, esp. the past two years, esp. after a well deserved Emmy nom. next yr. (a scandal if she doesn't get one) and this resulting media and fan hubbub are asleep on the job and worthless if they don't tag her for something better. She deserves that. She's earned it.

I agree. This is CC's "time". She has paid her dues. I see Dool as a meal ticket at the moment and nothing more. I would hate to see her take too many steps backward.

In my fantasy life, this is true. But in my sense of real life, I'm less sure. The thing is, actors can go through pilot season and hope to get cast in a prime time pilot, and then hope that pilot is picked up and they get famous and rich (or are just able to earn a living). Or, they audition for guest/recurring roles on existing series. But I don't see CC doing this. She's so entrenched in the soap world, she's good at it, she's well known. I've seen soap actors balance doing theater and a soap role, but being a regular on a soap while also getting prime time roles? I can't even think of anyone whose done this. Reality tv (Biggest Loser) and talk shows (Regis and Kelly), but not primetime drama.

Which is a shame, really, because she's certainly up to the task, talent-wise. The question is whether she and her agent have the interest/energy to push her career in that direction. At a time when it's hard enough to find roles for women over 40. When she's got a steady gig in a milieu where she's really comfortable.

My fantasy, before I found out she was moving back to Calidornia, was that she'd start doing theater. There's no reason she couldn't have an amazing career in theater in NY, and she's said she likes doing theater. But it doesn't pay all that well.

Quote:
 
CC's eyes probably almost rolled out of her head at that point.

This is something I've been trying to get my head around. She seems to genuinely like interacting with fans. I mean, NO ONE is a good enough actor to seem as genuine about it as she is. She tweets, she seems to read the responses to her tweets and even answers some, she writes birthday cards to people in her fan club, she answers letters from her fans on her blog, she has an annual fan lunch party event, she calls into podcasts to chat. If she found any of her fans, or their style of fawning over her, or sharing their problems in any way annoying, if she were rolling her eyes, we'd sense it. She just seems to be a remarkably generous, non-judgmental person.

Which is more than I can say for myself. :)

Quote:
 
The characters, H&N and O&N, and the actors who portrayed them made an impression on me and I assure you that doesn't happen very often. I never felt this way about the L Word.

You can say that again, sister! What a wasted opportunity that series was. A complete hack job, from start to finish. JLH and EW or the Shed folks should have shown them how it was done. Hey, wait, maybe they could hire JLH and EW for the American version of Bad Girls! How great would that be! (Yes, I'm slipping deeper and deeper into delusional fantasies, I know!)
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
But they're good fantasies.

And I shared yours about theater. Of course. (I think she has a Chekov play on her resume. I'd love to see her in something like that.) But, yes, we both know the pay scale sucks.

What really drives me crazy is...they've said they would gladly continue the story on As The World Turns also owned by P&G and Telenext as long as JLH would continue to write it (which CC has said all along) and soap-hopping has happened before I am sure--but the owners are willing to let the hottest story and couple on daytime get away because they won't hire a writer?! Explain to me someone please.
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ekny
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Geez louise, I go away for 2 minutes...! I don't always get email updates about new posts, argh.

jeanna
 
I am in love with these paragraphs and this fangirl you have hidden from me lo these many...hell, it seems like months longer than it's actually been to me.

fangirl? Me? Surely you jest. ;p (Happy to please, sweetie. And you know I meant every word, else why post in public.)

jeanna
 
*in love with words* And yes. Yes. There it is. The 'new production model' hated by some, scoffed at by others (in fact, by the dork who runs DOOL, I do believe) which, admittedly, had a rocky start is/was the way to go, but will never be vindicated now. The oldest running drama was struggling to change or die.

Spot-on & nicely expanded upon. :) It seems soaps are just way too entrenched to manage such a radical shift. GL was forced, basically, but the writers, cast, crew, all adapted remarkably well and there's no doubt the show is the better for it. (Although I'm still baffled by why the camerawork took so long, cause I swear I've seen college interns do better. I mean literally: did they change from one camera-system to another? I can't think of another reason. I know steadicams can be hard to wield but man, some of the 2008 stuff is just embarrassing to watch from a technical standpoint. Even a very few current scenes still have some of that: the camerawork on the two after Greg left the suite was iffy at best.)

jeanna
 
Oh, darlin' ... I need a cigarette. (And I don't smoke.) That was as good as eye sex, food sex, hand shagging, oh and Liv's palm kiss which was hotter than all 6 seasons of L Word put together.

Blue Moon...you saw me standing alone...

Loves e. a little more today than yesterday.

<mwah!> You're so much fun to make happy, look at this lovely, effusive long post! If a few words is all it takes, I be your girl. (Every time *I* hear "Blue Moon"... I think of Babe & the mice.)

jeanna
 
Damn. You know how I feel. I would have said exactly this...if my neurons were firing and I wasn't so spent from yesterday's tribulations.

Yesterday was a bitch. Truly. And... well... I just do things bassackwards sometimes, took me awhile. <skuff>. The cognitive dissonance was doing my head in. So I buried it in the back yard & am not worrying about it for now--yesterday was just too brutal.


I do agree with Abzug about the unlikelihood re any possible move to nighttime shows & the difficulties in such a move: I was just doing my own fantasizing, because there's no doubt she could handle it. Oddly, I wound up fantasizing about the possibilities for CC in theater, too. Even though I'd never get to see it: it'd still be something different, a new challenge, and one she seems well-suited for.

One of the things that's so interesting abt the new production model is, given that they've lost the luxury of multiple takes, what they are doing does seem like it's more than halfway to live theater already, in some ways. It's an interesting acting problem, actually. And when internally bemoaning the awfulness of some of the interviews we've recently had to endure (not me, actually: I depend on the kindness of strangers for the best snippets), those are questions I would effing LOVE someone to ask her: what the working process is like; how it's changed. And (cf an email exchange with Abzug) what it's like to know that the work you've done in what used to be a semi-perishable medium is now recorded on tens of thousands of tv's & tivos & replayed over and over again; does that kind of scrutiny feel different--knowing that's going on? I imagine she'd just say she approaches everything the same, but I so wish someone would ASK her stuff like this. Because I can't believe she hasn't considered some of these things and wouldn't have really interesting things to say in reply. Let the woman know we're paying *attention*. Cause you know we are.
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