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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,247 Views)
solitasolano
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The Muppets!
Me too. Thanks for the warning ek, looking at the hand.

:lala

Damn working for a living....I'm being strong....won't watch until home tonight at who knows when....figure I'll have a lot of catching up by then... see you all then.....
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Well the problem is if you go looking you risk seeing title headers by people who are I suppose trying to be helpful by summarizing but for same-day stuff are just screwing it up royally. You know what I mean--stuff like Natalia Returns and Olivia Shoots Her in a NonFatal Way kinda stuff. Argh.


ETA: I honestly don't mind, speaking for myself, that Abzug posted, or if other people do--I expected it on a day like today. That's why I went in with the screen-shield in place.... I just want the damn link, already!
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ekny
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A link would have been nice.

Otaliaaafan or some crap has them but they're corrupted: they cannot be downloaded & viewed in VLC or MPC. Plus she disabled comments so you can't even tell her her uploads blow. I can't watch this stuff on dialup, period.

I'm shutting down for the day, I've had it with this. Knock yourselves out.
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
My god people, I thought everyone knew all the YouTube folks, and knew that oootaliaaa was the only one who posts early. Didn't mean to cause hysteria or anything!

Here's a link to download, rather than stream:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MU18FE31
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ekny
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Thank god! No i didn't know....
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Going to talk about today's ep, ek. But, first, thanks for propagating the Patrick/1000 Worlds link, he was local hero on the BPD when he was writing and posted to the board a little bit as well. I enjoyed his columns. Especially the one on Otalia, Children's Hour, and Celluloid Closet and why this story is important in the history of american soaps. Also, yes indeedy, Brian Frons is an asshat of the first order. He's the one quoted in the press as saying, re AMC, "but our lesbians are cuter" and when his Bianca story tanked badly that he was sick and tired of all the "angry lesbians" yelling at him and then he backed his head writer who promptly blamed the failure of the story on the actresses!

And are you referring to the short Q&A with CC and Kim T. re "Venice?" Did a fan make the "Stan" tee for her? Love that she's wearing it. <G>

Quote:
 
I was thinking about why Natalia might assume Olivia would take her back with open arms, and I realized that Natalia might have internalized that "You are so worth waiting for" statement from Olivia more than she should have. I think she really believed that Olivia wouldn't hate her for the abandonment, that Olivia would understand almost unquestioningly. Weird.


I was thinking the same thing about exactly that, Abzug. We'll see what she says about that soon enough, eh.

I had to love the reveal. The largest object yet behind which Natalia, this time 'deliberately,' has been placed to hide the Cooper Bun (official at last, tho artificial in the latest incarnation) -- her car. The means of her escape and return. The Prodigal Returneth.

I was saying...no no no, you cannot go and see that damn priest first thing, I won't have it! But did she listen? We already know what (who) makes her happy. And if that's what she's decided...and she's glowing... We didn't get to hear his reaction however. Not that she told him anything further than that.

Also...smacking myself in the head (figuratively--more or less) when Nat had the almighty nerve to get slightly frustrated while searching for Liv: "Where are you, Olivia?" :rolleyes:

I have never hated Nat for her absence...the writers, maybe. <G>

I was just so relieved to see her back finally. Tho, the whole thing was remarkably low-key and not soap operatic (not yet anyway) in the least. Certainly not compared to the wild highs and lows poor Olivia suffered lo these many weeks.

The Future? 2 women and a baby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbCnRoMCupY


ETA: Oh, oh, oh, what did you think about Father Ray's gay joke?!
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ekny
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1) Flirting with Josh intact & healthy

2) Olivia apologizes to Blake. What the *hell* for? Oh right, her Redemption Arc.

3) Blake suggests Olivia's broken heart is healed? Uh, right. What planet does Blake live on, exactly? Is she that much of a bitch?

3a) Olivia: please. Be a bitch. Take back your apology.

4) Natalia has a prominent baby bump prosthesis. This storyline is starting to seriously squick me out.

5) Natalia sees Father Ray FIRST? What. the hell. She sees Blake second. She goes to the gym because... she's so unworldly she's forgotten about cell phones?

***
Too morally fatigued to bother with further commentary.
***

abzug
 
Last week when I read the spoilers, I was so angry at Nat, for being naive, for putting Olivia through hell, for not recognizing the repercussions of that.

Pretty much where I'm at now. Nat is just not bright enough for Olivia. All this I had to decide and me me me: this is not acting like any kind of couple. She's made a decision? Well bully for her.

I agree with the rest of your post, intellectually. Just can't get there emotionally.

I understand we have to Assume Olivia's made a decision to transition from devastation to Coping, but I don't feel like we really saw it. She sleeps with Josh again and her confidence is so shaky that's all she needs?

Jeanna
 
are you referring to the short Q&A with CC and Kim T. re "Venice?"

Yeah, didn't wind up watching, took too long.

Jeanna
 
smacking myself in the head (figuratively--more or less) when Nat had the almighty nerve to get slightly frustrated while searching for Liv: "Where are you, Olivia?"

Seriously.

What was the gay joke, please?
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ekny
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Okay, sorry for the double-post. Sorry for my mood. I don't know why my gd period is still a surprise after all these years but it is, every time. Well. *I'm* not the one who has to worry about getting pg, am I.

This is leaving me feeling pretty demoralized. I don't want to believe Natalia is this massively self-absorbed. I have to do a lot of work at the moment to assume the writers are not in fact 'assassinating' her character but let's assume that, since they haven't given us cause. Still. Yet.

Therefore the only assumption I can make is 1) she took Olivia at her word, when Olivia said she'd wait, and that 2) she has no idea of how vulnerable Olivia is, how her leaving would effect Olivia.

Further assuming 3) Natalia isn't as stupid or insensitive as she appears, at the moment, I therefore have to think: okay then. What Does Natalia actually KNOW about Olivia? She's "strong". She's been strong for Natalia over and over and over again. That's how Nat sees her. That's how Olivia wants Natalia to see her. Natalia has no reason to have any acquaintance with neurotic insecure Olivia, or the Olivia whose every relationship has tanked, or the Olivia whose worst fears she, Natalia, has just realized by leaving Olivia.

If we're in love, I would assume most of us try to be truthful about what scares us. But we do tend to want to put our best foot forward. So for the 10% or whatever of everyone which is just a seething mass of fear and weird iggies, we don't exactly flaunt those features while courting. Natalia's seen a LOT of the ugliness Olivia is capable of without ever really figuring out what it's about, because she wasn't at cause or fault. She only saw the aftereffects, not the earthquake.

So. Olivia's worst fears are that she's not lovable. Not capable of being truly loved for herself, not worthy of that level of devotion. She's shared with Natalia her fears around what having sex might mean (if that's how we're supposed to interpret that), and of losing the Friendship. But that's all.

Somehow, GL will have to make this explicit without bringing sex back up. Somehow, I don't think that will be a problem, since sex is *poof!* no longer the issue.

And that is a pretty neat trick.


Spec for tomorrow/this week: Olivia will not allow Natalia to greet Emma. Natalia will begin to get a clue as to exactly how hurt O. is.

Olivia will continue to behave with massive dignity because she's that grown-up. And that strong. She just doesn't know it yet, quite. Or rather, she does, but knows it only courtesy of Nat's betrayal, or what she likely sees as same. And will then have to be strong enough to forgive Natalia--and trust her again. Which should complete O's redemption arc.

We will have to sit through tedious scenes with Frank as Nat deals with telling him. She needs to tell him no matter what she will not raise this child with him

As for "Springfield is my home" and how she's gonna spend the rest of her life there, my pity knows no bounds.


Bottom line: there is a basic inequality around who's being vulnerable here in what ways, & has been from the start. This is not the same as the discussion of caretaking that others brought up before, I don't... think? It's about being brave enough to risk exposing the scary stuff. Some stuff is too scary to expose except when all other protections are stripped away. That's what Olivia's dealing with, imo. She's needed physical help from Nat, she needed to learn to be bigger than herself despite her fears. But she can't do it all herself. Which is one of the reasons people do choose to couple up, and one of the best reasons couples work, when they work: that they know each other in these ways & support each other with this kind of stuff.

Their entire discussion around their relationship has mainly been about Natalia. Natalia's fears about God, the church, sex, friendship, how will this effect how the man at the gas station treats her? Olivia's been a rock for Nat, but she built her part of the castle without making sure the foundation was solid. I don't blame Olivia, because she wants to be that strong, and mainly is. But if all she shows Nat is how strong she is, that's all Nat knows.

Sorry to have gone on: headache, heat, etc etc. Trying to think it through aloud.
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abzug
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One other thought occurred to me: I would NOT want Blake as a friend. Not only was she cunty to Olivia back when Natalia left, and smug to Olivia this morning, but then she didn't give Natalia a heads up that Olivia had been completely anguished and broken-hearted when she left. I mean, I understand being discreet, but you gotta know when to gossip a bit to help a friend out. She basically let Natalia go into an Olivia-ambush with no body armour or weapons.

ekny
 
1) Flirting with Josh intact & healthy

Really? I thought it was loving and intimate, but not flirty or seductive. When she said friend in that scene with him, I felt like she meant it, maybe for the first time in the whole time I've been watching the show.

ekny
 
Nat is just not bright enough for Olivia. All this I had to decide and me me me: this is not acting like any kind of couple. She's made a decision? Well bully for her.

Yeah, well, the way she phrased it was particularly narcissistic, wasn't it? I think the problem for a person as religious as Natalia is that her relationship with God is her most important relationship. Or, it has been until now. And since God isn't actually a living, breathing person, that relationship becomes very self-focused, very internal (b/c where does the voice of God come from, if not from within, right?). Interesting that Father Ray's opening scripture was about God loving people, and commanding people to love each other the way God loves them. Because isn't that what Natalia is finally truly ready to do? Be less focused on God and his needs/wants for her, and more focused on her own? Ideally she'll start being focused on Olivia's soon, but until then she's at least moving in the right direction.

ekny
 
I understand we have to Assume Olivia's made a decision to transition from devastation to Coping, but I don't feel like we really saw it. She sleeps with Josh again and her confidence is so shaky that's all she needs?

No, it was feel like she was loved and cared for, and not for her sexual self. That's what she's been lacking, the vulnerability Natalia left exposed. Josh was caring, and not just in a I-want-to-fuck-you way. And sometimes, I think, we all just need to be held. It's pretty fundamental, but it's true.

Jeanna
 
We didn't get to hear his reaction however. Not that she told him anything further than that.

Well, despite the fact that Nat visited everyone and their brother before finding Olivia, she did save the most important thing to share with Olivia first. And clearly Father Ray and Blake were both very curious to know what Nat had decided. But it wasn't theirs to know, so I'll give her a tiny bit of credit there.

ekny
 
Their entire discussion around their relationship has mainly been about Natalia. Natalia's fears about God, the church, sex, friendship, how will this effect how the man at the gas station treats her? Olivia's been a rock for Nat, but she built her part of the castle without making sure the foundation was solid. I don't blame Olivia, because she wants to be that strong, and mainly is. But if all she shows Nat is how strong she is, that's all Nat knows.

Damn, our posts crossed, e! And we talked about a lot of the same things. But I think this point is particularly good and important. It takes two to tango as they say (or, to quote a takeoff on this saying from the musical Next to Normal: "Sometimes it's hard to separate the dancers from the dance."), and Olivia's a very good dancer when it comes to this particular dance. I mean, we've seen it with all the men, haven't we? She goes in really strong and confident, and the vulnerability only comes up later. Perhaps Josh is the only one who didn't start this way. But Philip? Alan even? Even Buzz, despite his nurturing ways, didn't see her vulnerability at the beginning.
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ekny
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Good points, Abzug, I do agree. Back on board. And yeah, the being-held thing, acknowledged.

It's going to cost Olivia something to let Natalia back in, but I think the point is, their love is/will be that strong, in the end, and frankly it'll be better for it, for both of them.

I spent some time today trying to figure out if there *is* a word in the English language for women (besides cunty, that is! :D) who are this shitty to other women. I'm not actually sure there is. A shrew is this way to *men*. Anyone have any ideas...?
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Quote:
 
Okay, sorry for the double-post. Sorry for my mood. I don't know why my gd period is still a surprise after all these years but it is, every time.


I should have known. Why didn't I know? :console



Quote:
 
Spec for tomorrow/this week: Olivia will not allow Natalia to greet Emma.


Totally agree with that. That was my first thought after I turned the tv off this a.m. and wondered what would next ensue. Will be surprised if we're wrong. That would be the instinct. Still, the quicker than lightning muchkin may outrun her mum, even tho Liv was keeping up pretty well on the playground.

Quote:
 
Natalia will begin to get a clue as to exactly how hurt O. is.


Well...yes.

Quote:
 
Olivia will continue to behave with massive dignity because she's that grown-up. And that strong. She just doesn't know it yet, quite. Or rather, she does, but knows it only courtesy of Nat's betrayal, or what she likely sees as same. And will then have to be strong enough to forgive Natalia--and trust her again. Which should complete O's redemption arc.


Well said. Agree.

Quote:
 
We will have to sit through tedious scenes with Frank as Nat deals with telling him.


Unfortunately, yes. I'm afraid so. I'm still looking at the bright side that Frank D's shooting sched ended before theirs did.

Quote:
 
As for "Springfield is my home" and how she's gonna spend the rest of her life there, my pity knows no bounds.


:rofl

And I agree with all of Abzug's points.

But what did you think of Father Gay's camp moment when Billy asked "Will you marry me?" The oldest, lamest joke, but it was there for reason.
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cagey
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Just checking in from the left coast...

Jeanna: Father Ray's gay joke was like an anvil in the wind. A little summation for the watcher, in case they hadn't been paying attention. That along with Olivia's brief Monday Morning Summary of her Emotional State with Blake. Is that what you meant?

That said, I think Nat went to the padre first for 2 reasons: first because she has good manners and wanted to thank him (besides the nuns probably already told him she'd split) and second to say exactly what she did say: she'd made a decision for herself, about what was best and god was happy with that. When has she said exactly that before? About Olivia. It was another Natalia smackdown on Ray.

I want to segue for just a brief moment into the delicate issue of a woman's right to choose. Before we start dumping on Nat for being selfish (narcissistic is not a word I would use for Nat) or unfeeling about Olivia's feelings, can we possibly acknowledge that the future for this child is Natalia's choice to make. Other parties may not agree with her decision and this may cause her to alter the plans, but it's her body and she is the one carrying the child.

Emma: Sorry, I don't think Olivia would ever stop Emma from greeting Natalia.

Blake: Totally agree she's not a friend indeed even if she was a friend in need. There was a whiff of gossip-driven Blake going on today.

Natalia all around the town: She seemed intent, to me, on finding Olivia first before she told anyone else about her plans. She can't hide the bun in the oven, but did you not love that "Susan" at the Beacon gym didn't even bat an eyelash? "Oh, you've been away?"

The ability of soap characters to use cell phones mostly to not talk to each other never ceases to amuse me. Cell phones are for messages, all real communication must be face to face. Which is true, but still...

So, in my lunatic role I bring you this:

We started the show with Bill and Lizzie trying to make babies. Later, Billy decided to give Vanessa a surprise wedding. She was not impressed, and while she did not say she would never marry him she did say she wanted some input. And as that same whining background music that ek has referred to as the Otalia theme cranked up, Vanessa said to Billy you have some courting to do.
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Oh yes! The courting line made me grin big. <G>
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cagey
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Wait.. wait..Jeanna - am I not the only designated lunatic watching the whole show? Do you think it improves the overall experience?
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solitasolano
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cagey, no you’re not the only lunatic here, count me in too, and for the duration. Since there’s only 5 weeks left of this show, and since Ive sworn off the readily available steady stream of sprack (though I admit, a picture is worth a thousand words and I’ve seen plenty), I’ll be catching Otalia on the late show at home after work. My late posted comments can start the second round.

Yes, I watched the whole show….it was the Billy Lewis one-sided surprise wedding (doesn’t it take two?) plans paralleling the Natalia has decided/figured out “what’s best for everyone” but gotta tell Olivia first plan (wouldn’t it have be the mature thing to do to include her intended in making that plan?). Billy has blinkers on just like Natalia does. Both of them want to surprise their intended, but their intendeds don’t want to be surprised, they want “to have some input” and “want to talk about it”. And yes, the “Mr. Lewis, you have some courting to do” line was all out there in neon. You won’t this thematic build unless you watch the whole show. Yes, I’ve turned lunatic.

Also at the very top of the show and unseen is clip selects, “Previously on Guiding Light” opened with the clip of Doris coming upon Olivia and asking her why she is having a bad day….”because I’m not loveable” is her reply.
ekny
 
Olivia whose every relationship has tanked, or the Olivia whose worst fears she, Natalia, has just realized by leaving Olivia….
and
ekny
 
Olivia's worst fears are that she's not lovable. Not capable of being truly loved for herself.
I am so looking forward to a good return on the Olivia redemption-I can be love arch…that’s the hook here isn’t it?

Jeanna
 
I was just so relieved to see her back finally. Tho, the whole thing was remarkably low-key and not soap operatic (not yet anyway) in the least. Certainly not compared to the wild highs and lows poor Olivia suffered lo these many weeks.
I totally agree.

There was a nod to the “friend’ motif today. “Friend” was said 6 times within the first 3 1/2 minutes, up until Natalia walks down the isle to Father Fake. I like the Olivia/Josh exchange there.
abzug
 
When she said friend in that scene with him, I felt like she meant it.
I even like that Olivia actually made a joke about “your other friend” when she saw it was Reva calling. It’s so nice to see her joking again after these weeks of angst and hurt.

abzug, good call on Natalia’s internal god monologue equaling her own self-focused monologue.

I love that Natalia went looking for Olivia at the gym even before she went to the most obvious place, her room at the Beacon. The only other time I’ve ever seen this set is way back in February when Olivia encounters Jeffrey and they have that fun exchange, “I don’t even think she likes sex.” “I didn’t think it had gone that far.” Let’s get physical. Yeah right, sure, in my dreams and all the rest of you too.

The just missing each other in the hall/elevator scene…so predictable, yet my mind still jumped to the anticipation that Natalia was going to walk out of the elevator right into Olivia.

Coming home: Emma comes home = Olivia very excited. Natalia comes home = Olivia coping. (thank you ekny) or Olivia moving on (disclaimer: Olivia’s not saying that she’s over Nat because she probably never will be, but..)

Natalia’s new name for herself: Big Squash. he he.

On last thing, if Ms Chappell did start work today on her new gig, it means for the next 5 weeks she and I will be working within a half mile of each other. Where does that put me on the sickness scale that I even bothered to think that? :silly

Is it tomorrow after work yet?
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