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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,243 Views)
ekny
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In love with a prisoner
We've done nothing but be polite, as audience members. I mean: why say nothing? You have all day to structure a clearly worded inquiry that would get across: why this? Let them have their say. The rest of us don't get this chance. :) Take advantage of it, is what I sez.
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
Can I get some help? I've got three hours, so if you've got ideas on a polite, intelligent question I can ask, I'm all ears.
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ekny
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Pls re-email link to full descrip of panel, let's hammer this out. --e
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Channel the Inner "Angry Lesbian"...remember "Label-less" love story. Apolitical. Riiiight?

So...calming breaths now.

OK...

Now...I really think you need to come up with something to address the paternalism issue (since they, EW & JLH, are both WOMEN) surrounding this that you two have so intelligently been discussing here. I don't always agree with every perception, but...go to it.

And...my head is going to hurt if I stay in this or any other thread on this topic for any longer today (sorry, e, if I don't get back to you for awhile) tho I blew off steam on the phone with my friend Barbara with a lot of laughter over things like the look on Josh's face when Reva's car drove up. But...the observation about the mirroring...the couch...the comforting...the head/shoulder...hair stroke...FRANK...is enuf to send me off on useless errands and mindless housework today...so I'll be out in the yard if anybody needs me. Maybe I'll just go away on retreat for the next few wks. so I don't have to deal. But I really don't think all this angst is the least bit healthy.
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abzug
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Here's a description of the event and who is going to be there:
Ellen Wheeler, Executive Producer
Jill Lorie Hurst, Head Writer
Grant Aleksander, "Phillip Spaulding"
Bradley Cole, "Jeffey O'Neill"
Elizabeth Keifer. "Blake Marler"
Michael O'Leary, "Rick Bauer"
Kim Zimmer, "Reva Shayne O'Neill"

On September 18, the longest-running scripted program in broadcast history comes to an end. Beginning on radio in 1937, Guiding Light has been a daily mirror for American society, depicting attitudes on war, discrimination against women, civil rights, and much more. Join Reva Shayne (Kim Zimmer), Joshua Lewis (Robert Newman), Phillip Spaulding (Grant Aleksander), and others from Springfield as the Paley Center looks back over the history of the celebrated CBS series. A clip of the finale will be shown, as well as highlights from the serial's long history.


So, paternalism dominating a lesbian storyline, eh? Should I ask something like "Why did you decide to have men play such a central role in the love story between Olivia and Natalia?"

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Jeanna
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Mm, something like that. <G> You can put a little edge on it.

But...it wasn't written for US.

But, really...

Why is that such a component of the story...is it a personal writing/producing decision in the storytelling that wants to put that particular point of view across--and if so can they see it, objectively, as a possible problem or failing of another whole portion of their audience? or is it forced on them and us (by corporate/sponsor/traditional audience values) or is it just old-fashioned serial drama formula?

I kept hearing that EW was really into the whole Frank/Good Man thing. Chalk it up to a totally heterosexual pov that even tho CC kept reminding them this is "girl-on-girl" they just could not tear themselves away from it?
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ekny
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jeanna
 
Maybe I'll just go away on retreat for the next few wks. so I don't have to deal.

Well yeah see? Exactly. <sigh>

Abzug: I think that's the right general arena but that gives them too much wiggle room. They get to restate their Agenda. We have to make clear: we get their agenda, we can work with it, we can even work with the stupid frigging pregnancy storyline. What we *cannot* work with or countenance is their wish to have their cake and eat it too when they have done *neither*. They cannot sell this storyline to an audience who doesn't exist anymore; they cannot *dignify* this storyline by refusing to name it, and they cannot *claim* this storyline as any kind of success at the same time they are so severely undermining it.

Honestly, if they need someone to explain to them why the constant presence of men in a lesbian storyline is problematic--not just for the screaming radical lesbian component of their audience but for the freaking storyline itself AND its successful delivery to a more 'mainstream' audience [sic]--then they have no business writing it.



ETA: If you want to get them where they live & have fun being just a tiny bit mean (which they so deserve for having jerked us around for so long): you might consider framing this by delicately pointing out that what they think is progressive is in fact reactionary.

Nothing hurts a liberal's feelings more, you know.
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Jeanna
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Oh, Ellen, that last! Oh YES! OH GOOD ONE! YES YES YES!!!

LOVE YOU FOR THAT! *mwah*
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cagey
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
Wow today's show must be a doozy. I skipped all your earlier fomenting to get down to this practical question. And since I haven't gotten insensed yet, may I can help.

Well maybe not help because I think the question you want to ask is not something they can hear. They didn't write a lesbian story. It may look a whole lot like a duck to us, but they won't hear any quacking.


I agree with Jeanna that the best way to ask the question is to talk about paternalism in soap opera presentations of American life. Ask how the continued presence of character of Frank defines the relationship between Olivia and Natalia. Ask if Otalia can become a new pillar family within the Springfield community or if they must remain allied with an existing pillar family in order to be accepted within the culture of Springfield.
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ekny
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Ooh. Sneaky. That works too.

Will be interested to see if you're quite so cool under the collar after seeing the ep. :D


eta: Jeanna, you're... still here! It's like a sickness, innit? Cagey sez she's gonna hold my fringe but I couldn't wait, just went for the vicodin. (joke!) But serrrriously, we all know the solution for this, mm? <muah backatcha>
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abzug
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OK, lots of good ideas flowing here, but I need one sentence/question which captures all of it. How about this:
How do you think the soap genre's tradition/need to include men at its center hindered the ability of the show to tell a love story between two women?

Of course, what they'll answer is "We don't think it did. Next?"

How about: "What were some of the obstacles you faced, either in the form of external corporate pressure or internal storytelling traditions, which made it challenging to tell a story about two women being in love?"
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ekny
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Second is fine because it doesn't give them wiggle-room. Did you check out Cagey's sugg for reframing the first Q though, in terms they cannot escape--since they're their own terms?

This, I mean:

Quote:
 
Ask how the continued presence of character of Frank defines the relationship between Olivia and Natalia. Ask if Otalia can become a new pillar family within the Springfield community or if they must remain allied with an existing pillar family in order to be accepted within the culture of Springfield.


Let's see.

For Q1... I agree they can wiggle out but they'll have to work at it and it will sound like bullshit. Two might be better to start with.
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Jeanna
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I like Cagey too. *mwah*
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ekny
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To be clear: I still think you should ask Question 1. I think framing it in terms of the characters by name, with a male presence, makes clear the question is political without making them feel totally cornered. Maybe.

I just think you might get a more interesting answer with question 2. If you do Q1 artfully enough, they will allow you a 'quick follow-up', and will be rattled enough after one you might actually GET a better answer, then. :) You know: kick them in the shins, then act like you're throwing them a softball & knock them between the eyes with it.


eta: I must be really, really upset. I'm making... softball analogies. Oh god. I don't even PLAY.
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abzug
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The problem with cagey's question is it doesn't make as much sense given that the show is ending. If it weren't, then this idea of a pillar family would be something to ask about. But there are no pillar families after Sep 18, so I feel like the question seems too theoretical. Like "If the show were continuing, how would the Spencer-Rivera family compare to the het families?" And they would say "They'd be a family just like the others" just as they've said that this is a love story just like the others, and we know that's just not true.

I also like cagey. :wub: It's like a cagey love-fest here today!
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