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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,241 Views) | |
| ekny | Aug 19 2009, 09:19 PM Post #766 |
In love with a prisoner
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Excellent edit, I second Cagey's suggestion there! Thank you. ![]() --------- I um. rewatched. A few parts. So the rest of this is back to fury. :] Just for the few people who still haven't seen today's ep yet. Consider it cheaper than me finding a therapist. So I'm going arm-wavey now. But really briefly because that's all I can take cause I risk popping a rivet at this point. (isn't it funny how we keep going through like, waves of profound irritation or something? I just saw Abzug's other post on prev page. Man. Totally.) So, to recap: we're boning the Coopers again. This cannot stand. Because I cannot stand it. *This* is how we legitimize the baby? Cagey, please make it not so. Make it go. away. Please?? The scriptwriting. There's something going on here. Natalia is letting everyone have their say. She didn't agree with ANYone about ANYthing. Just let the boys rant on. (Until we get to the thing about the wedding. I keep waiting for her to look up from her love-glo and say Oh! You guys! I mean Olivia, durr.) I still cannot quite believe we wasted what, 5+ minutes with just the most dumb misunderstandings in soap opera history for no *reason*. The 2-minute endless reveal of Nat I Communicate Poorly on a Good Day explaining to Frank Who Needs a Lobotomy When You're Already a Tool Cooper what the rest of us understood *instantly*. That's not funny, it's just pathetic. So is there a reason for this? Reveals all over the place. Rafe again outs his mother. (Can he get arrested for drinking in public? Two strikes... I live in hope.) Frank steamrolls Nat as usual. N lets him. // Sickening couch scene that cannot be reviewed. // Rafe simply yells so loudly Nat cannot speak. (I'm giving her every single allowance in the world, you well realize.) She is compliant not because she in fact agrees but because she cannot argue with *Rafe*. That's when she falls to pieces. Whatever Olivia 'arranges' with Frank won't matter because he'll realize he repels Natalia. And she's miserable. And Olivia's miserable. Because lesbians are miserable and sexless, especially attractive ones in their prime. So Frank will save the day by finally Because babies needing daddies trumps women fucking their girlfriends. Every time, in fact. I know! You're amazed. You had no idea. Don't tell your girlfriend / domestic partner though, okay? Cause she's gonna be pi-issed. The other piss-off: we're back to the Dead Gus Heart Metaphor? to explain this? Twice--Olivia AND Natalia both. *That's* where something in me snapped, I think. Cuz, yannow. Me thinking it was a girl-thing and all. |
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| ekny | Aug 20 2009, 01:00 AM Post #767 |
In love with a prisoner
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From the SaintNatalia twitter page. This chick must take mellow-pills for breakfast, I swear. "Man, Olivia's really pissed. I guess I won't get to teach her all the singalongs I learned while I was away." |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 01:56 AM Post #768 |
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In love with a prisoner
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OK guys, I chickened out, because, well, there was too much love in the room, and it just didn't seem right. BUT, my friend invisicoll (who in the old days actually participated on this very board) chatted up Jill Lorie Hurst in a corner in the reception afterwards and asked her point blank why there was no physical intimacy between Olivia and Natalia. And JLH totally toed the party line completely, as if she completely believed it, talking about how things are new for the two characters, so they're not comfortable/ready/whatever. Invisicoll came away totally disappointed by the interaction. Other info I learned: the Otalia storyline was totally Ellen Wheeler's brainchild, not JLH's, and EW came up with it during the writer's strike, when she was just playing around with story ideas by herself. Which means that TWO lesbian storylines on tv (this one and Grey's Anatomy's Callie & Erica) were concocted during the strike. As much damage as the strike did to scripted tv, it almost makes me wish we had another one looming. Also, Frank D is such a blowhard. He was in the audience, and took it upon himself to start pontificating at one point (which NONE of the other actors in the audience did) and would NOT SHUT UP. And he was right across the aisle from me, so I had to sit on my hands to not punch him, after everything his character put me through today.
Nope, he had already told Ashley--she's the only one he told. That's why he called her, specifically, rather than someone else like Daisy.
It will completely piss me off if Frank tells Natalia to go win Olivia. Will these women never be allowed to have any agency other than when they've gotten permission from a man, or are acting in service of a man?
Wait. Rafe brought it up--is that what you're referring to? Because that didn't feel very metaphoric to me. Love how Natalia was actually now in the position of being happy Gus died because it saved Olivia's life. That was a tiny brief bright spot in the episode.
Oh, no, I think this is how she channels her rage. I love her tweets--they always give me a humorous release valve for my irritation at the character. |
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| cagey | Aug 20 2009, 02:26 AM Post #769 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Hormonally Crazed Women Stalk Daytime!! (no, not you guys, the Show! Reva had a party with 200 pix of Jeffrey, went down on a hot dog, realized she might possibly be a bit out of control and rushed off to Josh to repair the "hole in her heart". Just in case you think our 2 gals are acting odd.) :ph43r: Poor Josh - the two great obsessions in his life throw themselves at him today and he just can't say yes. Poor Frank - after just saying yesterday he did not want to be in a loveless marriage, is maybe going to get a chance to be in one. Okay - I'm not going to try to apologize the Way of the Soap out of today's highly retro flashback to March show, except to say that I believe one of the Rules of True Soap Love is that both parties are always their own worst enemies. Rafe is underage drinking in public and should be arrested on a parole violation and sent back to the slammer. However, he did say Lesbian to Ashlee, which we assume is important. He also, as one of you (sorry, I can't get all the older posts and I'm lazy) said is a study in the contradiction of knowing his mom is queer and expecting her to marry Frank. I am kind of enjoying his fierce and ridiculous hatred - I think Daisy and Ashlee find him to be slightly off kilter as well, with his paternalism towards his former gf Daisy now sleeping with James. That actually bothered me more than his stupidly childish but vaguely understandable outbursts with Nat and Liv. That boy needs a serious come to jesus. Olivia seems on a more destructive bent now than she was while Natalia was away. And - yes, Solitasolano - she has a Frank obsession. In a bad way. Maybe she feels guilty for setting them up in the first place, which lead to the pregnancy, which ruined her plans, which is proof that no one could ever love her ?
I sure as shit hope there is something going on. If she starts in with the waffling it really is not much of an endorsement for the power of prayer. I really think we end up with something approximating Natalia's vision of what is best. Otherwise, she's going to have to admit that she was deceiving herself about her connection with jesus and that just won't fly at all in the soap. But what I understand, (and it is little) is that your great soap obstacles usually boil down to people not *communicating* with each other. As we saw during the last Frank and Natalia wedding. The other hallmark of the soap is the Emotionally Open Man - which we just got a heaping helping of today. Where Frank goes is going to be an interesting next step. Olivia can't push him if he won't go there and as another one of you fine people noted, he is now well aware that Natalia is just not that kind of girl. It will be very sad if these girls finally get together because Frank tells them to, but at this point it is Olivia that needs the permission to make the leap, not Natalia. Which, for those of you who might have participated in the office pool, means Nat made Lesbian before Liv did. |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 02:37 AM Post #770 |
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In love with a prisoner
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You think so? I mean, Liv was all about coming out at the Bauer bbq, about moving in together, etc, months ago. The only thing that Nat has said which Olivia never has is that she wants to spend her life with Liv, which I guess I felt was implied by Olivia's various statements, although never explicitly stated. Yes, Liv is pulling back now, but not because of the lesbian thing (or, well, I mean, it's really tough to tell, I guess, but I think Nat's abandonment is primary, and the lesbian thing is kind of a harmonic undertone). |
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| Jeanna | Aug 20 2009, 02:40 AM Post #771 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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Oh, Abzug... Alas... If it had been me, especially after today, I'm almost sure I would have slugged him.
Could this be what the "blowhard" described early on to largely, I assume, lesbian fans, that we'd all love him by the end of this? And, as for EW coming up with the concept all alone...does that mean just putting it finally into motion? Because we know it was something that had been discussed with CC years ago (with Olivia and another character) and something she had been wanting to do as a possible storyline. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 02:48 AM Post #772 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I assume she meant pairing Olivia with Natalia, specifically, and addressing the sexuality/religion angle. I think previous discussions between CC and JLH had been about pairing Liv with Holly? |
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| ekny | Aug 20 2009, 02:54 AM Post #773 |
In love with a prisoner
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There's a grizzly thought. And way too close to plausible. |
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| cagey | Aug 20 2009, 03:00 AM Post #774 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Liv never said coming out - they were going to the BBQ "together" and would let everyone know they were "together". For all of those moments when Nat would waffle and Liv would say "oh yeah, me too": either she was faking it because she thought Nat needed the moral support, or she indeed was not sure what it meant. For Olivia, maybe not the Lesbianish part of it, but the Commitment part of it. And it seems to me, that if you have a problem with the Commitment, you have a problem with the Lesbian. So you think Frank D was being obnoxious because he *is* or you think he might have felt a bit defensive? It was a lovefest - but what was the audience composition? Sorry to hear about Invisicoll's chat up with JLH, but, since JLH doesn't see a duck in the room ... Evil genius soap minds. Gotta wonder. |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 03:35 AM Post #775 |
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In love with a prisoner
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True. But to play devil's advocate (and really, I'm just playing, because I found your post convincing), Natalia also hasn't said anything about coming out, has resisted telling new people about she and Olivia (like, say, anyone at Company in today's ep), and hasn't labeled herself or the relationship. So other than the fact that she's concocted this fantasy family for herself and Olivia, I'm not totally sure how much further along she is. |
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| cagey | Aug 20 2009, 03:57 AM Post #776 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Well for one she has a fantasy family. These girls have been pussyfooting around for months trying not to say what it is they want to be. If one reverse engineers from Natalia wanting to be with Olivia for the rest of her life and raise the child, back to the Sex talk and all their other prelims, I think Natalia has reached that point. And now we must all pray she retains that conviction. Olivia right now is just self destructive. I am a bit torn about where this leads us. Natalia saving Olivia - a touch co-dependent. Frank solving the problem - let's not go there. The two of them having an adult conversation - ? - think not. Emma asking what they are waiting for - highly possible. |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 05:30 AM Post #777 |
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In love with a prisoner
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You know what was particularly sad about today's episode? That Olivia seems to be giving up on friendship with Natalia, not just the romantic relationship. I mean, it's understandable, of course, but after so many scenes where these two said over and over that they didn't want to lose their friendship, no matter what, the fact that they've gotten to that place makes me sad. The idea that Natalia would be Frank's problem ("she can take it up with her husband" or whatever the line was) felt almost colder than anything else Liv said or did this week. Could it be I was also bothered by the fact that they didn't have any scenes together today? Six weeks of no Nat, then finally she's on, and basically we only had one episode where they had scenes together (if we don't count the short cliffhanger scene from Monday's ep). |
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| solitasolano | Aug 20 2009, 06:19 AM Post #778 |
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At first I was going to say I felt as frustrated as Olivia is. But in the seconds it took me to type that, I think I'm fed up with the both of them. Pffff. Otalia dominated ALL of "Previously On" with a clip of "you broke my heart', "you're pregnant?" (the Fversion), and "you, me, sex, now." Voice over provided by JL. The Almost Kiss made it into the title sequence (suppose that will be the closest they ever get/got). I liked the Josh/Olivia scene. Finally. She's been trying to get that out to him forever...Wow, the answer to how long this has been going on...since Gus. Boy she is hurting. "She quit me. She has a thing for leaving." But isn't that what Olivia is trying to do without success, quit Nat? You know, to Natalia's credit she did tell Rafe in no uncertain terms 1) she was in love with Olivia, 2) she wanted to raise the baby together with Olivia, and 3) I forgot---but suspect it was that god approves (lol). She just needed to tell him to STF up already. I agree with your point, cagey. Natalia, in her own mind, and in her way HAS made a commitment to a life with Olivia, to being lesbian. All those months of the two of them saying basically "this is new" (don't forget, this is new means not experiment with the la la kisses) and "I'm scared, as someone who watched Otalia clips since Dec in on month, I ALWAYS read Olivia to mean she was scared Nat was not commited to the relationship and would bail rather than any newness to the physical part of a relationship (this lesbianless part of this story is really wearing on me tonight.) Well as far as O's concerned she proved herself right...and now, I agree, she's setting herself up so she won't have to make a choice anymore. So Natalia tells Frank he can be there EVERYDAY as father, his part of the Nat's perfect plan for everyone...granted she's a tad off, but I'm not sure what was supposed to be meant by Frank's ending reply that all 3 raising the kid was not in the best interest of the child. Felt homophobic to me, the written line...what was the character supposed to mean there? Man, showdown at the OK Korral aka the railroad track. WTF? Because she, Olivia says so??? What is this Feb, March, and half of April redux? Yeah, I've read the above comments about how O can't win but to lose. I'm not buying it. That was a bad scene...oh, except for yeah, the ask your husband part. That's a new line...I'm getting a laugh out of this bec it's all so unfullfilling. I guess it's because I read, abzug your friend's comments from the Paley thing tonight....right this all is new to these ex-straight women so right they don't want to kiss....I'm laughing it's so sad, but, hey, the sunglasses are always good. When Rafe showed up at the farmhouse, it reminded me that in the Nat return episode on Monday, that's the first place we see her. She's walking up the path. We never see her go inside in this shot...the farmhouse is empty....no family...no one there. She doesn't go inside. Sorry for the run on sentences...can't think straight tonight (thank goodness and wouldn't want to). BTw, in the CBS stream it's much easier to see the one on 50 ways CC can tear up or cry. Not quite as obvious as in the less rez clips. Too bad the torture doesn't continue till next week. Sorry ek, that slipped out. |
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| solitasolano | Aug 20 2009, 07:25 AM Post #779 |
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Double post because I'm boardless during the day... Morning YT inspired by:
Olivia's "and I should be alone?" come back to Rafe. Somethings never change. p.s. in all my YT clip watching, this is the date I pick for Olivia being at the point of no return where her feelings for Natalia are concerned. |
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| abzug | Aug 20 2009, 12:50 PM Post #780 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Thanks for that YT link. Man, this show was SO damn good back in the fall. I can't wait to rewatch all those clips.
The third thing was that it would be best for the baby to grow up in a house/family that is full of love, as her life with Olivia would be. I don't recall god being part of it at that point, although she could have thrown that in for good measure. But it seems to me this is the crux of Natalia's newfound certainty: that happy, in-love moms are really good for a kid, better than unhappy, not-in-love hetero parents. That's a big leap she's made, and it's a leap they're trying to get the audience to make too. So that it's not her selfishness, just wanting to be happy while sacrificing her kid's welfare. Of course what I'd really like to see them show is a scenario where Frank as a part-time father isn't even required or part of the picture, but I think that's too radical a viewpoint (more radical even than the idea that two women in love, even two formerly straight women, might actually want to KISS each other!).
With Frank it's hard to tell if he's anti-lesbian, or just anti-Olivia. I kinda think right now it's a big mix of the two. And his anti-lesbianism thing is really more because it's right in his backyard. He wouldn't mind someone other than his ex-fiance and mother of his child being a lesbian.
I've been thinking about this more. It's the same plan, but everyone's aware of it now, while before Olivia was the (wo)man behind the curtain, pulling the strings (mixed metaphors enough?). So it should play out differently this time. It should be over a lot quicker, for one. But the other interesting thing was that Nat said back in the spring (or JL said about Nat? In the BPD podcast maybe?) that leading up to the wedding Nat was waiting for some indication from Olivia that the two of them being together was something that was possible. And Liv refused to give it to her. So, now what is going to happen when, for the first time since they sat together at church, Liv is saying "This isn't going to happen"? Nat's not used to that, so lord knows how long it will take her to think to herself "I don't care what Olivia thinks is possible, I know what I think is possible. |
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