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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,238 Views)
abzug
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In love with a prisoner
ekny
Aug 21 2009, 10:44 PM
:D :D :D Oh my. This made me laugh so hard I'll have to concede the point out of sheer amusement if nothing else. Ok, okay! Nice, it looked nice, Itakeitback!!! Still grinning. (Although, Abzug, speaking of really: that's curly?! Talk about a liberal definition! You causeth us to Smirk, as well as Guffaw.)

Well, these days, with everyone straightening their hair to within an inch of its life, I'll claim curly haired peeps wherever I can get them. But yeah, it was really just the gesture of curly hair, rather than true curly hair. :)

ekny
 
cagey
 
The last time we saw Nat she was looking pensively at a photo - which I assume is that damn 3 of them on the couch photo - and getting resolved.

Huh?! When?? Was this some scene AFTER Cooper!SpawnfromHell I did not see???

Link please?

The very end of 8/19's episode. Here's a link, without the timestamp (I couldn't bear to rewatch, sorry).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgUbLeKu2_I

cagey
 
Mel brings the cookies to Cyrus and then jumps on him. This possibly should have been Natalia's strategy as well, because those cookies almost got Mel into bed with Cyrus.

I totally noticed this! And got annoyed, although if we conceptualize it as Nat and Liv rejecting the hetero paradigm (you mean the paradigm in which two people who love each other get to have sex?) then I guess I'm ok with it. :)

cagey
 
They were like Olivia's talking stick. She'd put them down somewhere and a woman appears to tell her great truths about the nature of love.

Oh, I like this! Totally! They're like the nexus of love and nurturing. Or something.
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cagey
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Ok ek - searching for your clip and am reminded of just how stupid Olivia sounds telling Frank that Natalia will stick with Frank, that she *knows* Natalia will stick with Frank. Olivia has no idea what she doesn't know about Natalia. ;)

Also enjoying Natalia telling snotboy that she cannot have love with Frank.

A moment about hair: curls or not, what the new style does is get those damn blinders - um bangs - out of her face so she can see clearly.

And thank you abzug for finding the clip before me.

abzug
 
I totally noticed this! And got annoyed, although if we conceptualize it as Nat and Liv rejecting the hetero paradigm (you mean the paradigm in which two people who love each other get to have sex?) then I guess I'm ok with it.


Go ahead, make me laugh. :rofl

Of course, Mel did manage to back away somewhat not gracefully before she committed to total carnal lust.
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ekny
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Nuts. Thanks for the link, Abzug! I'll have to watch it tomorrow. In the version I saw the end of the Nat stuff was the scene with the Coopers. I am quite sure I saw nothing with her after that. Much less looking at a photo. Which would have made me feel different about that day, its end, and certainly the weird transition to this one.

That's definitely a problem with these quick uploads. And now that my source for high-quality tivo rips lost their tivo (well, it died), I'm just stuck waiting around for proper-quality clips like everyone else. Plaintive sigh. The flv quicky files... man, I hate those, you have to watch them all the way through, can't scroll forward or anything. I've still only seen Wed once... for obvious reasons, but in this case, evidently not all of it, even. :(

abzug
 
But yeah, it was really just the gesture of curly hair, rather than true curly hair.

Between this & cagey's talking stick analogy, I feel Unworthy.
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cagey
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abzug
 

Nat hasn't claimed she's figured out the nature of love. She's just figuring out what it takes to get Olivia to trust her again. That IS something that can be accomplished in a single move (or group of moves). I don't see Natalia making one grand gesture--she's going to make a broader effort, a campaign, in essence, which is going to involve a lot of things. And one of them is going to be the one which finally pushes Olivia into forgiveness and trust. Does it mean they'll have a healthy happy wonderful perfect relationship? Of course not, and if the show weren't ending on September 18, I'm sure they'd experience more than their fair share of struggles in that arena.


Excellent description that. Much as I would like that metaphor of Emma the love glue to also be cast aside. It occurs to me that the single thing that is going to tip the scales for Olivia has got involve Emma. Like saving her from a burning building.


abzug
 
I think that's a fair place to be after today's episode. I'm such a romantic when it comes to tv, however, that I feel quite relaxed and content. This was a turning point episode for me, in that I feel like it's clear the direction the next four weeks will take, and that's a direction I'm very happy about. Will it go just the speed I want? Who knows, but given that on Wednesday I thought we were heading to a very different place (Nat being pressured into another Frank marriage?!) today was a HUGE relief for me.



Abzug - I just re-read this and realized the awesome power of the Spoiler to affect how one receives the story. It was about the time when the rumor of "scenes from Frank marrying Natalia (no wait, it's another couple)" went up that I just gave up on the spoilers. Though - unspoiled ekny - did you also feel, after Weds show, perhaps out of your deep respect for the writing of the show, that Natalia was going to get shipped over to Cooperland permanently?

In terms of the part of the story we have to make up for ourselves: namely, what did happen in Company after the camera left, ie, does Buzz know *yet* about Natalia's big love for Olivia? Which is to say, has Frank finally told his dad why she dumped him in the first place and doesn't want to marry him for the sake of the baby, now? I'm beginning to wonder if there will ever be a big Bauer BBQ level reveal that they are together or if it's just going to leak out person by person.

The food analogies represented the amorphous "I don't have words to express whatever it is I'm feeling and can't quite define" emotional state of earlier Natalia. And Olivia too - with the wiping the imaginary food of love off Natalia's face and cozying up with the tupperware of sex replacement cookies. It's a good thing that Natalia made the cookies for her *friend* and that *friend* rejected them. That she then passes them over to Frank just reenforces the point that these two are now past the point of settling for *friendship*. That's kind of interesting since, as abzug pointed out, Olivia seems prepared to dump their beloved friendship over this trust business.

Of course, they'll be making the leap right from friends to family without stopping for that other F word in between.
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ekny
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I decided this morning that Emma will name the baby. It can't be something that puts Emma in danger, I thought of the burning building but--wrong metaphor, imo. For all kinds of reasons. And it's definitely Emma. It's not Olivia's business or even moving back in.

Emma's the Love-Glu(tm), we are definitely skipping over the F-word to family, therefore... some naturalistic scene with Emma feeling the baby bump (aka: Prosthetic o Parthenogenesis) and asking a perky wide-eyed question about boy or girl and Natalia telling her (because I am hoping the writers are, at the very least, smart enough not to specify) that maybe she can name her little brother or sister when the time comes, or Emma just asking if she can name the child, herself. Cut to Liv weeping with joy upon hearing Natalia's response &tc.


---

cagey
 
Though - unspoiled ekny - did you also feel, after Weds show, perhaps out of your deep respect for the writing of the show, that Natalia was going to get shipped over to Cooperland permanently?

Not permanently, no: that's not consistent with the interminable Otalia-is-Endgame chant [intoned in Zombie!Mode by no less a personage than the primary herself]. But I did think it entirely possible they'd ruin the last month with an actual quickie marriage only to annul it (but couldn't see Fr. Asshat allowing it, actually), or just as bad, a whole lot of time spent on Frank, Frank's Concerns, Frank putting pressure on Natalia, awkward scenes with the Coopers, blahblah, towards that same end. Either way it was a trainwreck.

ETA: Finally got to watch the end again.

N: Oh, we haven't planned anything... [longest pause in history] yet.

Marina's reaction shot indicates *she* gets that there will be no wedding for poor daddy dearest, but that's the last scene I saw, with nat.

No! I'm wrong. I saw the closing montage. It made zero impression on me. I was so infuriated with the Cooper scene it simply did not register. Literally. Like: oh. Boring montage scene. Yeah. Not-working for me. She looks at A photo, but we don't see it.

So I made no assumption about what she was looking at. Perhaps I should have but it's completely out of context. We don't know that Natalia has or keeps photos in her wallet. Yes, people keep photos of their families in their wallets, but so far as I'm concerned, that means Rafe, who she'd have tons of photos of. And no, after a month plus of her absence, the Roving Photo o Luv® was not in my mind. I didn't know it could morph from the fridge to her wallet. I'm behind the times that way.

It would be very clever if we saw that it was the Mystery Shot of Liv from the christening, but I expect no reveal one way or another.

Thus my reaction to Wed's ep, I guess, at least in part. I saw no reason to extrapolate, simply did not have the emotional wherewithal to bother after "...yet."
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cagey
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Photo wise I figured it was either the Luv Photo - cause it is landscape not portrait - and she has new resolve to get her family together, or, it was Rafe and she has new resolve to get him straightened out. Either way, it ends with the Belly Pat of Determination.

Naming the baby - that's excellent. I agree that burning building is not the likely scenario but I think more than Emma's acceptance of the baby and Natalia leading to Olivia's - cause we had a moment of that the other day - Natalia will have to do something specifically around Emma - something that Olivia cannot do; something Olivia will have to trust in Natalia to do. But what that is, I haven't the foggiest. But I wouldn't take Gus' heart off the table, sad to say. Or dying Phillip - he is inching closer to telling his family, just as soon as he straightens out James. He and Natalia should get together and share notes.

I did find this little number today - for those of us fond of parallel construction. It is pregnant Olivia coming to terms with the necessity of having Emma's father participate in raising the child.

It's a girl

Quote:
 
Marina's reaction shot indicates *she* gets that there will be no wedding for poor daddy dearest, but that's the last scene I saw, with nat.


Thanks - I had to go back and look again - she sure does put that "gee you're a loser" arm around his shoulder. And she is possibly the only Cooper who had any excuse not to at least suspect why Natalia ran away from the wedding. So maybe there wasn't much left to say.
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ekny
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I keep thinking, if this is where the long-term plan for the soap met the exigencies imposed on it by cancellation... then it's a good damn thing it's ending, because 5 or 6 months of Plot A would have sent me screaming for the hills.
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abzug
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We'll never know, but I don't think Nat-pregnant-marrying-Frank was their long-term goal if the show hadn't been cancelled. Before cancellation, and even shortly after it had been announced, the show was clear they were not going to write JL's pregnancy into the show. I think had the show not been cancelled, they could have written JL's maternity leave in with something unrelated to the relationship (kidnapping, something to do with Rafe), which would have led to new storylines down the road. So I don't think the plan was to spend six more months with Nat trapped in the Cooper orbit.

Jumping back a bit, the sad thing about that ending sequence was that they could have used any of thousands of videos on the internet to cut in a montage of their happy times, which would have been SO much more effective and impactful.
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cagey
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abzug
 
We'll never know, but I don't think Nat-pregnant-marrying-Frank was their long-term goal if the show hadn't been cancelled. Before cancellation, and even shortly after it had been announced, the show was clear they were not going to write JL's pregnancy into the show. I think had the show not been cancelled, they could have written JL's maternity leave in with something unrelated to the relationship (kidnapping, something to do with Rafe), which would have led to new storylines down the road. So I don't think the plan was to spend six more months with Nat trapped in the Cooper orbit.


I agree. In fact, without cancellation I wonder just how close Frank would have ended up to them. I do think a child had to happen in order to define them as a complete family, and if the writers wanted to wind up their story with a "happy ending" they needed to find one quickly. That made Frank the only option.

Also, the original wedding was filmed before the cancelation and it is a pretty clear statement that Natalia is not never going to marry Frank - not just because she loves Olivia, but because she doesn't love Frank. That was the sin which makes her falter at the altar.

Rafe's insane loathing of Olivia is another bit that must be a product of the condensed story line. It must be leading somewhere since it serves no purpose at the moment other than to piss the viewers off. It's not even vile homophobia; it feels more like misogyny.
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ekny
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Of course the reason we are left to puzzle out what Nat's grand gesture will be is that the truly obvious one--asking Olivia to marry her--isn't available to this program. Because Nat and Liv are both marrying kinds of girls, and that would, rather, do it for Olivia.
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abzug
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I've got Internet! But I have to sneak around so my gf doesn't see me. Here's a link to a scene from tomorrow's ep. It's spoilery, obviously, but for those who consider preview clips ok, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQOuLldfaUM
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solitasolano
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Oh you wicked woman you. :D
I was production picture spoiled for this way back when...didn't play as expected what a surprise...comment below...in preview spoiler disguise.


I always figured in the "walkaway" one of the two would sneak a look back behind at the other....didn't expect the hand touch...ooooo that was so much better.
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ekny
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You guys are killing me! :D

I have NEVER been so tempted to look at anything yet.

<steels self to Be Strong.>

<chin quivers>

<walks quickly away.>

See you tomorrow. :eek
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Jeanna
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I ain't lookin' and I ain't been lookin' So there! And I've been staying out of all threads, even this the supposedly non-spoiler thread the past few days so, I didn't really know if it had been discussed but, here goes...

When I was a kid (*sigh* yes, it is one of those stories of the olden days) I remember the brouhaha that ensued when pop singer Petula Clark boldly dared to touch Harry Belafonte's hand (!) during a song on a tv special. The sponsors were in an uproar. Later in the 60s another stir was caused when Capt. Kirk kissed Lt. Uhura in a famous first on "Star Trek." I vividly remember reading the TV Guide Letters section the following week and how one letter stated that "Star Trek went too far!" (Yes, I believe the letter was from The South.)

So, watching GL on Fri. with the whole Mel/Cyrus, Nat/Liv juxtaposition I couldn't help but see it as a kind of FU to CBS as well as a historical perspective on how things change incrementally and how they stay the same. No one watching, I am sure, would have lifted an eyebrow over the Mel/Cyrus interaction when just a few short yrs. (or decades) ago, within living memory, as mentioned above, the network would have forbidden and/or the sponsor would have been censorious over an inter-racial kiss. Way to make a point. At least I thought so.

It's not like Mel and Natalia have had a lot of interaction in the past. There was only one reason to have them bake their intendeds, their honeys a batch of sexual innuendo. At least Cyrus 'had a taste,' 'got some,' whereas N and O (NO!) are forbidden the same interaction by the network and the censors as, once upon a very short time ago, would C & M have been denied in the past. Standards and practices vs. The Real World.

When will "Nat" be able to grab "Liv" and kiss her like 'any' hetero couple? (tho even that particular hetero couple would have been denied pre-69 or whenever the Trek kiss occurred.)


Also...has anyone noted the paraphrase in song "everywhere you go, so will I" of the Ruth/Naomi "whither thou goest" in the background music used for the Otalia story? I've heard it used before, but it re-emerged on 8/18 with pregnant Natalia.
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cagey
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Jeanna - I also recall there was some consternation that Judy Garland was too huggy and touchy with Lena Horne (circa mid 1960s on her tv show).

This is one of those oddities about GL that just doesn't add up for me. They have had a number of inter-racial relationships and two bi racial children (Mel+Rick and Remy+Ava). The Boudrouex family is fairly integrated into the town of Springfield and mixed into the other families. So I've never got why the producers/CBS/Telenext would care that much about 2 nice middle aged lesbians to censor their physicality. I tend to think it was written this way on purpose and for whatever purpose (I give up trying to figure out the Love Love Love line that Ellen Wheeler was propounding the other night).

Of course I am now firmly of the Cookies As Heterosexual Paradigm school - hence Nat's trademarked seduction seasoning would work on Cyrus. It's a good thing Mel agreed to make cookies with Nat. ;) Too bad Nat didn't warn her that these cookies can, in fact, make you pregnant.

In all seriousness, I think the purpose of the cookie making scene was to establish that Natalia, while not exactly direct in her description of how she feels about Olivia, is now willing to admit that her feelings are on the same level as Mel's feelings towards Cyrus (you know: sexual). That was a pretty gutsy step for Natalia to make.

Solitasolano - I agree completely. I want to use the word sophisticated. But anything beyond that we should remove to the other thread and leave ekny and Jeanna in peace. (There's nothing particularly earth shattering over there from what little peeking I've done, since we are both trying to stay off the sauce. ;))
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