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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,237 Views)
abzug
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In love with a prisoner
cagey
 
Solitasolano - I agree completely. I want to use the word sophisticated.

Oooh, totally. And that, combined with your point about how Nat talked with Mel about her friend really shows how much Nat progressed in her time away. I would have liked to see her claim her desire for Nat at Company with the Coopers, but that is perhaps asking too much.
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solitasolano
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Even though I didn’t read the “we’re pregnant” announcement at the Cooper clan gathering the same way as you, ekny, I understand your resulting head explosion from, especially, the lack of Natalia setting them all straight…plus it makes me crazy that BOTH Frank AND Natalia refer to OUR baby in their double scenes….Who is Olivia in this all????chopped liver? She so better get on board and make sure she is second parent to Nicola Rivera-Spencer (Emma told me. She sent me an PM and told me that was the name she had picked out. he he)

I re-watched last weeks Otalia clips. After the intense responses Olivia had to Natalia’s reappearance and unsatisfying explanations why she just split, did you all realize that Olivia and Natalia DID NOT have one scene together on Wednesday, and on Friday they their screen time together in two short scenes: “you’re in but take your cookies and go home” and “I know what you want”…totaled under 2 minutes???

Where is that Olivia/Frank shoot out on the RR tracks scene going? Hum? Frank so seems to get it that Nat wants O so why? Badly written attempt at viewer audience angst?

Frank gets bitchy with Olivia and says it's never gonna happen. More of the same. He doesn't like her.
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cagey
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What is it with this Cooper obsession? Am I missing something entirely?

abzug
 
I would have liked to see her claim her desire for Nat at Company with the Coopers, but that is perhaps asking too much.


I agree that Company is an excellent choice ( as opposed to Towers) of a public statement of love, but is your desire for statement to be in front of Coopers about the general Cooper-hate or because these are the folk who have been most like a family to Natalia?

And abzug in your bucolic vacation setting (seething amounts of envy aside), I assume you will be watching this week. I truly hope so.

Since I was just watching some much older clips, I have to say that parental responsibility seems very high on that GL standards of behavior -- at least at the time of birth. Obviously never at the time of conception. And most certainly not when the child needs a parent. So the "our baby" bit conversations, solitasolano may be in keeping with the GL story as a whole and not meant to drive us all into further depression. :)

But because you said "never gonna happen" I just have to link back, cause it never gets old:

Never Gonna Happen


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ekny
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I confess that's one of about 3 fanvids I've ever saved for this show. The pacing is terrific (& I don't even like the music!) :D

It's possible I'm just having an off-day so sorry if some of these questions are doh. But first:

cagey
 
2 nice middle aged lesbians

Um. Nat is like, what, 33? Olivia's 40? I thought middle-age started around 55. Seriously.

cagey
 
(I give up trying to figure out the Love Love Love line that Ellen Wheeler was propounding the other night).

I can only assume she's got the same sensibility as that academic whose article Abzug linked to about... geez I dunno, 20 pages ago. The one who somehow equated all those scary people in the parades with Bad Gays and The Rest of Us as the good, normal gays who ponder the intricacies of dishwashing detergent and the right kind of green mutual funds to buy.

Quote:
 
Of course I am now firmly of the Cookies As Heterosexual Paradigm school - hence Nat's trademarked seduction seasoning would work on Cyrus. It's a good thing Mel agreed to make cookies with Nat. wink.gif Too bad Nat didn't warn her that these cookies can, in fact, make you pregnant.

Well, this is actually kinda-sorta working for me. Cause hey: Nat does need to find a new paradigm. Food got them thus far, but it's time to woman up. They wanna include peanut butter with their sex that's cool... but first they do rather need to be having it, for Peanut Butter to happen.

cagey
 
That was a pretty gutsy step for Natalia to make.

Must disagree here, though. Gutsy for 6th grade, yeah. Enough already with giving her all the leeway in the world. As audience members, we've been asked to cut Nat an enormous amount of slack. Time's up.

cagey
 
I want to use the word sophisticated. But anything beyond that we should remove to the other thread and leave ekny and Jeanna in peace.

Oy. You guys. This had better be MONDAY you're talking about, already.

solitasolano
 
Even though I didn’t read the “we’re pregnant” announcement at the Cooper clan gathering the same way as you, ekny, I understand your resulting head explosion

This *really* puzzled me! :D I am honestly asking: how could one read the events of that day's episode & all that led up to them... otherwise? Much less in a positive light? Just from the photo at the end?? me = confused (I don't mean as about marriage per se: I just mean Oh *this* again? All this back-and-forth bs with spineless Nat.)

cagey
 
What is it with this Cooper obsession?

What Cooper obsession? I am confused by your confusion. :) Only thing that has an obsession about the Coopers is the damn show, far as I can see.

They're boring. Frank's stupid. Marina's a bitch. Who else... oh Buzz. Well - I can't understand half his lines because he gargles them. I don't know who else there is, Mallet? Omg. Who. *cares*. about any of them, really. Speaking for myself: bor-ing. B o r i n g. I don't hate them except as their zombie-affect interferes with everything Otalia.

...is it Monday yet?
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solitasolano
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G'mornin from the left coast...Yes it's monday now.

ek,

1) 55 + 55 = you do math.. ah you too, cagey...I think you're both on to something...and besides that, does the age thing really matter?

2) Nat needs to woman up....oh yeah.

3) I understand your point re the photo at the end...the difference is that Never Gonna Happen Frank knows that now, that it's never gonna happen, and I'll go further, accepts it even if he would prefer otherwise.

4) Feel free to refer to pg 4 of SPOILERS when you see fit. :)


Dang off to the salt mines.

ETA: Filling in for abzug. :ph43r: Both parts up and viewable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEoqBX657Ok
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abzug
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I've got a few minutes, and managed to download and view the clips using a broadband wireless card (ain't technology grand?). Sadly, that scene at the end, which we saw yesterday, was the best one of the episode. And I found myself wishing that Alan hadn't spilled the beans to Nat about Liv asking him to give her the job, because it would have been much more compelling had Nat just known.

Otherwise, of course, loved the scenes at the beginning and the scene at the end. I liked how Liv can't help but communicate to Nat how in love with her she still is, but also keeps reminding Nat that the love isn't the issue. But it did give us a small chemistry moment, so that was nice. Nat, however, seems to be thinking that this is the angle to pursue, so it will be interesting to see if her attempts to make Liv fall in love with her again will have any effect. I thought Liv continued to be pretty cold throughout, so I'm thinking the speculators are right, that Nat will also have to do something else, specifically around the trust issue.

Does Lillian know about Liv and Nat, you think? Her comments seemed too pointed otherwise, but hey, this is a soap after all.

I liked how happy Nat was in her confidence that things will work out with Olivia. That kind of happiness and lightness is so much more compelling from her than the deer-in-headlights thing.

OK, have to run!
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cagey
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According the US Census bureau - as of 2005, the mid-point of average life expectancy for white women is (brace yourself): 41. After 41 you have fewer years ahead than behind. Statistically speaking.

solitasolano
 
does the age thing really matter?


Only in so much as two mature women (there - better?) should be less threatening to people who might feel threatened. And as abzug mentioned elsewhere I think, that tis only the young ones who get to romp around with some of their clothes off. Those two factors already make this story sedate in terms of explicit sexuality.

At that Paley Center gig, Ellen Wheeler went on about how she wanted to do a story that was about Love. How Love comes in unexpected places or from unexpected people or some such. It occurs to me that she really did mean that warm fuzzy love, not the love the rest of us know about.

ekny
 
Must disagree here, though. Gutsy for 6th grade, yeah. Enough already with giving her all the leeway in the world. As audience members, we've been asked to cut Nat an enormous amount of slack. Time's up.


You musta been a terror in 6th grade, ek! But for someone who six months ago was appalled that she had sex at all, two months ago was mortified that she got pregnant and has spent since April trying to figure out how to act on her feelings towards Olivia, I think it's a big step forward. About what are we supposed to be cutting her slack? That she doesn't just jump up and scream I'm Queer for Olivia? She's having a hard time getting there; it happens to a lot of women. Once she does she'll wonder why it took so long. If it didn't take so long there wouldn't be any story.
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ekny
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solitasolano
 
4) Feel free to refer to pg 4 of SPOILERS when you see fit. smile.gif

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that means. I haven't even looked at page 3 because when I asked if it was safe here, no one said it was.

I haven't read anything here.

Can someone post a link directly to part 2 please? I am only able to find it & download as FLV, not Mp4. This is pretty frustrating. I'm using latest versions of everything. I don't know if it's something she's doing or a YouTube thing or DownloadHelper being its usual half-arsed self. --e
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abzug
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Sorry, I don't have any other links at this point, although I'm sure they'll be up later in the day.

But I did want to add that one thing I thought was interesting was that scene with Olivia at Company, which felt really random until I realized that they included it to show that Olivia is happy about doing something nice for Natalia, rather than relieved to have Natalia out of her hair. It undermined some of the subtlety which I am sure is there for the character, but this is a soap, so what do I expect? Everything. must. be. spelled. out. very. clearly. But anyway, without that scene, the last scene would have been more psychologically rich, as it was when I watched it in isolation yesterday. Instead, it seemed like Nat's happiness with the ice cream, and her reaching out and grabbing Olivia's hand was justified--it wasn't a risk or a leap on her part. And now we think, as Natalia does, that the two of them getting back together is a matter of time.
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solitasolano
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Better quality clips

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihHV9T6Dy1Y

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTOgYNxEUQ&feature=channel

Never mind about anything else I might have written.
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abzug
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One other thought about that Olivia at Company scene. Maybe she went to Alan with the primary, conscious objective of getting Natalia off her back, and making sure she had space to "forget" how much she loves Natalia. But once she succeeded in getting Natalia a job, she felt that old familiar feeling of taking care of Natalia which she enjoyed so much in the fall (getting Rafe to a better prison, getting Nat's money back from Decker, etc etc), and so that wound up being the primary emotion after the fact. And then the exchange with Lillian reminded her of what that good taking-care-of-Natalia feeling means, what she could have with Natalia, what she wanted with Natalia, but now doesn't trust her enough to get.
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ekny
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From the Mimi Torchin column over at the link Abzug provided:

"The fact that Natalia returned and sought out Olivia (Crystal Chappell) with an affect that implied she had just been to the hairdresser for a touch-up and now was home an hour later, all bright and shiny and ready for lovin’ (“Honey, I’m hooooome!”) instead of having ripped out Olivia’s heart by disappearing for weeks without a word on the day they were to announce their love to the world was probably more to blame than the interval itself for the absolute lack of heat and joy that her return and announcement to Olivia that “I want you” generated. I mean, did Natalia go to a religious retreat to search her soul (and make lace with the nuns), or did she go to Disneyland where she was turned into a smiling, automaton-like Stepford Wife? WTF, GL? Have your writers no heart, no brains? Is this what long-suffering Otalia fans deserve after all we’ve gone without for lo these many months, to finally arrive at this anticipated moment of reconciliation and release, and get this? This week of empty calories?

It didn’t help our love for Natalia that Chappell played Olivia’s disbelieving rage at her former beloved’s galling cluelessness with an Academy Award-worthy performance while Leccia was obviously directed to play Natalia with all the depth of Alvin the Chipmunk! And what does it say about the current potency of this once passionately drawn romance that my favourite line of the week was Liv telling Nat to “take your cookies and go home”? It might be telling you that the party is over, even if the cake hasn’t yet been eaten. As my Jewish grandmother used to say, “Feh.” No, GL, you haven’t completely lost me or probably many other Otalia fans, but you are going to have to do so much better than this to make it up to us and Olivia.

Movie GL’s head writer should not have watched: The Children’s Hour
Big Screen Homework: Antonia's Line "


***

What did ek *like* about today's episode? C'mon. Play along. Someone guess. One right guess.
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solitasolano
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Playing along :party

Guess #1 : the suit because we didn't get to see the shoes. :silly





NYTimes covers CC/Otalia and Venice.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/arts/tel...talia.html?_r=2
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solitasolano
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Ok then, Guess #2...it IS the shoes then....High heels on the BB court. :dazzler
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cagey
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Today I think we witnessed the return and the beginning of the end of Olivia Freakin' Spencer. Perhaps this is why the episode caused dyspepsia.

Can't have Natalia working at the Beacon cause that might make her feel something. Something she refuses to feel. Cause she is not going to be with Natalia.
Reiterate to Philip that because Nat is having *Frank's* baby - she and Natalia cannot be a family. (Note baffled look on Phillip's face since she told him - back in the day - that his fatherhood responsibilities stopped after the birth of Emma.)
Goes over to Alan and plays him in classic fashion.
Is then proud of herself - for playing Alan, not for helping Natalia - and deserving of chocolate cake.
Is told, indirectly, by Lillian that she is selfish and not feeling for the needs of the most important *friend* in her life.
Plays basketball in a business suit and heels with pointy toes.
And gets caught out - game, set, match - by Natalia. (Victory hand pat included.)

What happened to her job with Blake? Ashlee took it? I loved Alan's response about getting stuck with the maternity leave.

Regarding the Mimi Torchin article --

I'm getting tired of people comparing the acting talents of CC and JL. CC has a number of stock gestures she uses quite effectively in the soap environment. More interestingly, she enjoys playing with her fellow actors and is at her best when she is inter-acting. But she has been at this about 15 years longer than JL. Take a look at some of that early DAYS Carly stuff - that is the stuff one should be comparing JL too. Soap acting is a skill that takes years to develop - as an actor and as the character develops.

It was GL's mistake to try to explore religious conviction. I don't think it's ever worked on screen. Remember "The Nun's Story" - with Audrey Hepburn staring angelically? I don't think anyone has successfully portrayed, visually, what is so inherently an interior resolution. Of course Natalia comes back all shiny - she is now lit from within by a new purpose and meaning.

Again, what these two need to do is sit down and talk to each other. I want to call that a real world response, even as I know there are lots of fucked up people out there who in fact never sit down and talk. There are no insurmountable obstacles, there is only Olivia's fear. Natalia had her fear and she overcame it; now she needs to help Olivia make the same passage.

Of course, this won't happen so easily.

Meanwhile - James or Alan is being set up to sacrifice themselves for Phillip. This just in - Frank: still an asshole. Shayne: having never heard of the Goodwill, lets Daisy and Christina rummage through Dinah's clothes before tossing the rest in the garbage. And in our parallel couple department - Mallet will be suggesting that he and Marina just give Henry to Shayne and be done with it. Olivia's choice, too, for the baby in the making?

Just for you ek: perhaps the scene where Olivia tells Nat to get lost?
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