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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,236 Views)
solitasolano
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:thought

Third and final, Guess # 3....Chocolate cake.
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Solitasolano! Hey sweetie. Number One is Number Right. :) <Annnnd... what do we have for the winner, Johnny? Well, we have one year of high-fashion shoes of the owner's choice....>

Sorry, was doing other stuff, only just got x to log back in. The NYT, eh? Finally. This should be interesting. Hm. Meh.

***


I had trouble with today's ep, as usual, I suppose. <sigh>

This obsessive, parochial thing with Families & pregnancies and babies babies babies. Maybe it's common to all soaps. Don't know. Don't care. Every time it comes up, I am reminded 1) how much I don't care 2) how much I am not the target audience 3) how socioculturally disabled their target audience (or how they imagine them) must be. *This* is the rationale, the thing that justifies, that legitimizes Olivia & Natalia getting back together? Excuse me, gotta go take my fingers out of my throat.

The shot of Tragic Olivia looking off into middle distance as Lillian or whoever tells her how *very very much* she is going to be Missing Out on in All the Best Things in Life if she doesn't help her "best friend" through all the wonderful moments of pregnancy like swollen feet was, so far as I personally am concerned, the last word in reactionary. This is how we motivate Olivia to remember all the ways she loves Nat? What a *fecund* metaphor. What a serious bore.

I know I knowIknow. Not-the-target-audience. I know it every time I watch this show, I know it more and more and more.


So, I laboriously remind myself: target audience.

The woman in Butte or wherever who's over her ironing board and goes to church every Sunday has to make some assumptions to get to this place. "They have to stay together for the sake of the baby." So maybe she thinks: maybe I'm the only one who's uptight about this.

Medicine tastes bad and oogy if you're not sick and don't have a disease. We just can't treat this like it's literature. That's like treating Robitussin like it's kirsch.

The point here is that someone with a gay child won't think Fawcett-Crest 1950 She was a Predator: the Whole Town was her Prey! but rather Hm: maybe my kid is more like Natalia. Nice church-lady who cooks for her neighbors.

The soap population is very small, for this story in the way they are telling it: the ladies ironing in Provo, etc. are the population with the cough.
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solitasolano
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That was brilliant, my dear.

No wonder I can't find anything to comment on...the endless innocuous "congratulations" to N for being pregnant from everyone and their cousins; the perfunctory inclusion of Asshat into the equation; presenting O's resistance to Reconciliation because 'we're not going to be a family' because it's Franks kid; the Mallet/Marina/Shayne parallel triangle family story evolving; the Emma needs her father; and on and on....gag me with a spoon, makes me crazy. I've decided today trying to follow soap story lines is not unlike taking acid and making me hallucinate.


Well, for my guess...I knew it wasn't the dimples. :innocent

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ekny
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This is very comforting to hear, actually. I read a few pages of the spoilers from July, finally, having been told up to page 6 or whatever was safe, & had a moment where I felt like... well, sheeeit. THAT'S where they've been acting out & getting all emo or disillusioned & throwing things. By the time it's happened and we're posting here, you've all already Processed! Cagey in total denial about the pg s/l, Abzug angry about the lack of kissage... everyone, really, has these moments up jumping up & down and waving their arms & throwing things. Instead I'm left to think I'm the only butthead getting wound up, with everyone else coming on all rational-like and patting me on the head. But *secretly* you guys are Just. Like. Me.

;pppp!


I am so gullible. Honestly. :huh:


Dimples? :D Pffft. I have killer dimples. Dimples do not overly- or specially impress. JL's are very nice, of course, but hell, I can do *that*.
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cagey
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EK - you have never been alone. I try to suspend my personal value system and notions of just society while watching the story. It's like visiting any foreign country - got to leave the preconceptions (smirk) behind if you want to understand what you are seeing. But that doesn't mean I abandon those values.

I have been stunned by how happy skippy everyone in Springfield is over Natalia's pregnancy - and each has the same set piece of: how wonderful, how are you feeling? Not the obvious question of who's the daddy? Or how about - is that why you left town?

Thinking about Lillian's speech to Olivia about the joys of babies; since Lillian is the designated moral center of the show, that pretty much was a mandate. Being very fond of Barbara Stanwyck movies, I was seen many a feisty and daring female be reinserted into the patriarchy in the last 20 minutes of the film. And Olivia had that look on her face.

The target audience...the target audience. It's not just women ironing in Butte Billings and Boise. I spend a lot of time with the target audience - they are my work colleagues back in Melvis and they are customers - all smart, educated, funny, competent women with whom I engage most pleasantly. So much so that I am always shocked when some passing remark reminds me that unlike me, they go to church, have excessive numbers of children, vacation at theme parks, commute to suburbs, are profoundly heterosexual and vote republican.

What may be most depressing about watching the soap is being reminded just how far on the margin of acceptable social practice I reside.

Otalia on acid? Would it improve things, ya think?
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solitasolano
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Wasn't bothered by the pregnancy thing when I jumped on board late June, but now...(rolling my eyes)....Besides Olivia ALWAYS been left out of the acknowledgment of Nat being pregnant (Lillian convo notwithstanding. More in a bit), Olivia and Natalia HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED about that situation, to each other that is, since the park scene and "this is totally different". I'm not convinced by what I've seen that Olivia even knows what to think of it bec the writers are only pushing the I don't trust you thing. But take a look at the character's reaction when Nat walks out from the car and reveals her pregnancy...Olivia is really taken aback on top of all the abandonment and unlovable issues she's been faced with. So please NO MORE congratulations on being pregnant without any one asking any questions (with you on that one, cagey).

The Lillian/Olivia interaction. I was only struck by how Lillian's comment "she'll need to be held and told everything is alright" is what Olivia herself has been seeking and said so more than once...It's about Olivia. It's her story afterall.

As for target audience and the world out there, I live in a world where my neighbor and co-workers think it's just fine to vote away my civil rights (whether I want to or not partake of those civil rights or not is not the issue ;) ).

Otalia on acid would not improve things, just answer a lot of questions. :silly
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ekny
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Yes, we reside outside of town, most def. But the one thing you didn't say about your work colleages is that they are homophobic. I wasn't making a class-based observation (and am sorry if it sounded as if I did): I was trying to talk about a profound sort of cultural isolationism parts of this country have taken on. (And as Solitasolano & others have pointed out, feel righteous about.) And I suppose it's legitimate--again & as always--if GL chooses to address those parts, in its own terms whicharenotmine, in order to say: these are your friends, your friends and neighbors.

GL's terms & method of approach are not mine, & in no way optimal for addressing this problem, even w/in the parameters they've set. As I've suggested from the beginning. They deserve credit for trying, but setting up the Problem in this way.... As soon as the characters declared themselves to each other we were in trouble. Subtext, these writers could work. Maintext, not so much. Maybe a little ironic, but not so surprising, given the context.

I have to agree with Solitasolano: a dose would help, about now.
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cagey
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solitasolano
 
The Lillian/Olivia interaction. I was only struck by how Lillian's comment "she'll need to be held and told everything is alright" is what Olivia herself has been seeking and said so more than once...It's about Olivia. It's her story afterall.


Goodness - that just hit me. Lillian is the first character to acknowledge that Natalia may have to have this baby *alone*, as in no partner. No birthing coach (GL is big on the birthing coach). No one to tell her she hasn't made a horrendously bad choice, she is beautiful and beloved.

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking Olivia is peeved that Nat had sex with Frank. Actually, I think she was jealous back when it happened.


ekny
 
I was trying to talk about a profound sort of cultural isolationism parts of this country have taken on. (And as Solitasolano & others have pointed out, feel righteous about.) And I suppose it's legitimate--again & as always--if GL chooses to address those parts, in its own terms whicharenotmine, in order to say: these are your friends, your friends and neighbors.


Don't know that cultural isolation is a new thing in this country or that self-righteous advocacy of that isolation is either. But I take your meaning. Corporations have policies that prohibit homophobia, racism, sexism in the workplace. A great deal of time is spent publicizing these policies - which in essence are also saying "these are your coworkers, your friends and neighbors." What seems like pattycake out here on the left coast is a very serious discussion in the heartland.

And I agree that writing a story about the Universality of Love without ever addressing the specificity of the Love in the story they are writing is doomed to fail.

Oh and, I want to offer a completely unsolicited thank you ekny for selflessly taking on the role of Rabid Dog, without which these discussions would not be possible. :D
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abzug
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cagey
 
And I agree that writing a story about the Universality of Love without ever addressing the specificity of the Love in the story they are writing is doomed to fail.

The funny/sad thing about this storyline is that a good portion of the time they have actually written the love story in wonderfully specific ways, with all the little details right, so that it DID feel like it reflected a gay point of view. That's obviously gone away in the last couple months, and while I would theoretically give them some leeway on this, and allow them to pretend we live in a post-gay, post-labels world, the lack of physical affection between the two characters proves this isn't so.
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ekny
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Is today a Notalia day, then, she asked rationally? :)
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cagey
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Looks like Weds and Fri.
Today Mallet will try to sell off Baby Henry, Phillip will not bond with bone marrow James and Edmund and Jeffrey will continue to be undead.
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solitasolano
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cagey, thanks for the summary.

So when are we going to see an argument? There hasn't been one between these two since the friend-no-sex spa trip. That dynamic always seemed to do something for the story.. Olivia getting all mushy waiting for an elevator doesn't.

Some recent late 2008 clip I watched reminded me that Natalia was always so worried...like manic worried. Where did that go...don't see that at all in this current incarnation of this character. more like space shot with a weird smile on her face all the time...

abzug, I agree. The writing and the story from last fall up til Olivia really pushes Natalia to marry Frank after the almost kiss (and then I won't know who i was anymore...heaven forbid) was very satisfying...after that and before that (the whole soap opera heart exchange thing I still can think about without laughing) the meandering only makes sense on mind altering drugs.


Oh, but of course, I'll watch tomorrow. :silly
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cagey
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Babies?? You got a problem with freaking babies? Today's non Otalia episode drove the subject of the primacy of The Child into the ground.

Mallet leaves Marina because he can't "share" baby Henry with Shayne. Baby Henry will have a Mother (Marina) and a Father (Shayne). M&M still love each other but Henry actually gets in the way of their goodbye kiss. The implication is that Marina will be a technically single mother, but with Shayne around to help out. Not like Mallet is leaving town though. Now that's a situation that is totally do-able.

Meanwhile, Shayne is promising to be the best dad ever, Jonathan expounds his theory of the Father Instinct and Phillip fails again to reach out to James.

As positive spin all I can say is that Frank wasn't on the show, therefore Frank doesn't have Father Issues.

Oh and, for those of you still marking your scorecards: After their first "date" Vanessa tells Billy she is not ready for it to end, and invites him into her room at the Beacon.
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ekny
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cagey
 
As positive spin all I can say is that Frank wasn't on the show, therefore Frank doesn't have Father Issues.

Alt interpretation: Frank has nothing but daddy-issues but to bring it up would turn it into the FC Show.
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solitasolano
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No F-show please.

To reiterate my beef...and everyone else's....
Quote:
 
Olivia and Natalia HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED about that situation (the fact that Nat is pregnant), to each other that is, since the park scene and "this is totally different".

You want us to raise Frank's baby?

Evening YT on a NOtalia day, inspired by Olivia's trust issues. No need to view past the "keywords".

Issue at hand #1
Issue at hand #2
Issue at hand #3

Can we get some movement on this issue please.





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