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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,233 Views)
cagey
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
Great summation solitasolano. And I am also wondering if Olivia's concern about Nat having "some man's baby" is going to dissolve into thin air - mostly cause if you want to look at this as a soap opera, that would be a very interesting place to go for a few months of angst.

solitasolano
 
This is the other message Olivia has consistently been giving Natalia since her return. Go back to my first postings in July (Nat has already rudely spilt.) and I maintain that Olivia’s expressions of “I’m scared” during those endless two months of May and June was about Nat not being able to commit rather than the sex stuff… (well that too, but more resignation than scared).


That's a good point - are those months of Olivia sharing the sense of fear about her fears for Natalia caving in on her or about her own fears regarding the relationship. I think we can assume that Olivia is up for the sex parts. Given after their little sex talk and now Natalia comes back all fired up with the true religion of Otalia, I think Nat is totally in for the game. While I completely am in on the thought that Olivia is generally on board, I am amused by the thought that Liv just got her number called by Nat - whole family and love you together forever.

I believe solitasolano was the first to identify the cheek and/or chin chucking. If not, whoever you are, we thank yoiu.

Oh c'mon ekny, can't you find something to disagree with? We've got a few hours before the early returns on Monday.

What the hell are we going to discuss once the happy ending gets into place, which, according to all our prognosticators will be about 72 hours hence?

PS: again had the pleasure of watching the beginning of S2 (ep 1&2) of Bad Girls with a new viewer. Can we go back to that and review and discuss?
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
Do y'all think it's progress that two weeks ago Olivia was all about the trust issue, while this past week she was all about the "she's pregnant with some man's baby" issue? Are we supposed to think she's moving past the trust issue and trying to get her head around Natalia's new idea of family? If so, I don't get why that is a stumbling block for Olivia, since it never was before.

Watched the last 4 Otalia eps in a row with my gf, who has been following the storyline since I started watching. She was seriously bored, and asked how much longer this was going to go on. So that's from a casual yet invested viewer. Sad how much they've screwed this up. And all the more amazing that Bad Girls actually didn't screw it up, or not royally screwed up at least.
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solitasolano
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No, no, no....the pregnancy thing has always been right there since Nat came back along with the trust thing. Look at Olivia's expression at the end of the episode on return day. She is totally taken aback at the step out from behind the car reveal. Except for the fun new turn of a phrase from 'Frank's the father', i't's Frank's baby'... to 'some man's baby' there still is the issue that Nat's grand plan was that she and Olivia were going to raise Frank's baby together. Take a look at the 8/19 epi. Olivia is listening intently to Nat as she usually does, but as soon as Olivia as Nat mentions that she hasn't told Frank yet, she loses it. Then there's the whole RR shotout..it's your baby you raise it; O's telling Philip Nat's pregnant with F's baby so they can't be together; tells Josh; tells Lillian she'll be too busy to be around to help Nat get through her pregnancy; the Frank/O 'shut it Dockley' moment. No the pregnancy thing has always been there for Olivia, she and Natalia haven't talked about it again for us to see.

I think this week was more about "I can't". I can't let it happen. It's not going to happen. I can't be your love. I can't be more to you than that. etc. This week has also been Natalia's "plan" for everyone so not happening. Nothing she tries works on Olivia; her baby boy now makes plans without her. She can't get ANYONE to side with her not just Olivia.

I can understand that the gf is bored because I almost am. Lack of screen time doesn't help. No sustained interactions, only 7 mins out of last wk's 3 hours doesn't help either.

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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Quote:
 
Oh yeah, forgot to mention yet again the untalked about pregnancy angle....Are Olivia's initial pregnancy put offs are going to be discussed or just wiped clean? Conveniently the latter I'm afraid.

Great post, Solitasolano. But oy. *Seven minutes* is really shockingly bad. I knew it was some low number but... quite the slap in the face. What ARE they going to discuss during their 5 minutes next week? Matt? ;p

Lack of discourse: the one thing I thought soaps specialized in. Guess not any more. <sigh>

Loved the Good Ship Doldrums imagery though. :)

cagey
 
Oh c'mon ekny, can't you find something to disagree with? We've got a few hours before the early returns on Monday.

I know, right? I lanced last week's wound. Nothing left. Dunno if I'm gonna watch Monday. You can email me first to warn me how cranky I'm likely to be, maybe. I'd have to haul my butt into work, for what? To get all bent out of shape? Pfft. It can wait.

Quote:
 
While I completely am in on the thought that Olivia is generally on board, I am amused by the thought that Liv just got her number called by Nat - whole family and love you together forever.

Uh huh. So if that's not the Grand Gesture... <watch as I ruin your evenings! mwahahah!>

...maybe there won't be one of those, either.

As I think it was Abzug (sorry, having trouble keeping up!) pointed out? Nat's already done: I love you, I want you, I need you, I want to be with you Forever. So verbal declarations would seem to be exhausted, unless it's in public. Sans kiss, natch.

cagey
 
again had the pleasure of watching the beginning of S2 (ep 1&2) of Bad Girls with a new viewer. Can we go back to that and review and discuss?

Dude, go for it. I know you're hot to dis discuss Shit Happens. :) People are around, open up the thread again!

abzug
 
If so, I don't get why that is a stumbling block for Olivia, since it never was before.

Because the writing is doing a Patsy Cline?

abzug
 
She was seriously bored, and asked how much longer this was going to go on.

I watched briefly with an acquaintance at the office, last week, who said the same thing.

What's remarkable to me about soaps (and beyond everything else, the reason I've never been remotely interested in watching them) is how little happens in any given moment's dialogue. It's like 60 seconds turns into 127 seconds and contains... 10 seconds of content. Surreal.

The most irritating thing about Nat's little message from god is that they will have to spend the rest of the show discussing baby Spooper. Crivera. (Note Addams Family Likeness? Mm.) Not the relationship or their feelings. Much less doing anything about them.

Spirooper! Sounds like an STD. Sprivooper.

Oh good! Now I at last have something Important to think about.
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solitasolano
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ekny, so you can get up to speed.


Morning YT refresher course.

Olivia has a lot going on... (as usual).

I'm going to buy him a bell for that thing.

:silly
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Well there you go, getting me worked up, girl! ;p Y'all just want to see me fly into walls like one of those tin toys you wind up and let go of and it wobbles around til it goes <smeck!> and falls over with its legs still shuffling back and forth while it makes a grinding, whirring noise and the cat peers at it anxiously and comes over and sniffs at it and bats it around a few times til it gets bored and eventually someone kicks it under the couch and 2 years later you clean and rediscover it all covered with dust bunnies and someone says Oh so that's what happened to that old thing... wonder how it got there.

So now we Know.

--------
The ever-charming SaintNatalia twitter site has been back up for a little while. Honestly. The woman has the temperament of a saint. Tonight's pick:

Sitting alone @ farmhouse watching Daytime Emmy's. I think that show is missing something important. Wish Olivia were here. She would know.
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solitasolano
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The Muppets!
Olivia
Aug 28 2009
I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, etc.

Except for, oh yeah, on purpose not calling Natalia to "I can't" and cancel the shopping date, this is still pretty much all she has to say still.

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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
True, but there was some progress in today's episode, in that Olivia was trying to figure out how to relate to Natalia, and realizing she simply can't, and Natalia letting her know she's not going away. So I felt like Olivia's defensive wall was further weakened today. I also liked that they actually had a couple scenes together.

Interesting that they are exploring the "friend" concept so emphatically. It's been going on for a couple weeks now, with the baking cookies scene etc. It's like, how do we make it clear they're more than friends, given that we can't actually SHOW them being more than friends? And so they've made it an explicit part of the text. I can't decide if I think this is a positive thing (from a political perspective) or just more lameness. I'm sure ekny and cagey will have more thoughtful opinions on this than I do.
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solitasolano
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There's always been some kind of progress....glacial though it is.

I'm counting. Since Nat's return two weeks ago we've had 4 references to guys fantasizing, wanting to watch, snickering re "so Natalia and Olivia." (Today we add Josh goofing on Olivia and Natalia together in a changing room and Matt's reaction when Josh says he's right about O and N). Gag me with a spoon. Hope I don't have to keep counting.

abzug
 
I'm sure ekny and cagey will have more thoughtful opinions on this than I do.
LOL you don't mean to imply my comments are good for only YT references, comic relief and bad grammar and spelling, right? :silly

Olivia talks specifically with Josh about trying to work out the "friend" thing...afterall, Josh has mucho experience with blurring the lines of friendship with Reva...Olivia says she's trying to figure out how she can be a friend, Josh assures her it's easier said than done, the lines are blurred....Olivia is trying to blur the lines. Natalia's not taking any of it. That's the progress now.

I didn't like how passive aggressive Nat came off in the phone call asking Olivia to come with her because "that's what friends do", and I liked even less that Olivia didn't at least call Natalia to cancel..seemed a tad rude for the place Olivia has been in of late.

Of course there was the perfunctory Matt/Natalia encounter in the minimart where Matt speaks the same lines that could come out of Natalia's mouth and she proceeds to provide advice that she is trying to follow herself. Daytime dramas overuse this ploy as far as I'm concerned. They could just as well use ready made flash cards.
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cagey
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(No politics and very little thoughyness have been used in the creation of this post.) :innocent

Been thinking about the voyeurs of Springfield. Wondering if perhaps their snickery comments are the way to express the unexpressable in terms of Olivia and Natalia and sexuality. Between the boys' rapture and Olivia's fear of getting too near to Natalia I think this is as explicit as it gets that the nature of their relationship is far beyond that of friend.

Olivia and "Friendship" - it's not going to work. She knows it's not going to work. She marked her line in the sand on Friday and then moved it back a few more feet today. I was especially smacked by the need to stock up on extra strength anti-perspirant before being that close for that long with Natalia. Natalia also knows it is not going to work - which is I think where the passive/aggressive came from. She was jerking Olivia's chain on purpose.

I agree it was rude of Olivia not to call - I suppose if she hadn't run into Nat on the way out she might have left her without even so much as a message! It was also rude and selfish for Olivia to use Matt as an excuse to get away from Natalia. Not that I care about Matt in the least, but that was one manipulative little call to have dinner and cheer *him* up. Olivia is behaving very much like Olivia, which is to say, increasingly childish.
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
I wish I did, Abzug. It's clearly an 'up' day: music of cuteness tells us so. Matt's not a serious thing, just more Olivia backlash.

solitasolano
 
Since Nat's return two weeks ago we've had 4 references to guys fantasizing, wanting to watch, snickering re "so Natalia and Olivia." (Today we add Josh goofing on Olivia and Natalia together in a changing room and Matt's reaction when Josh says he's right about O and N). Gag me with a spoon. Hope I don't have to keep counting.

Oh you too? I just wrote this then logged in to see it was de trop.

Sorry, trying to tone the snark down but it's a struggle. The spectacularly gratuitous ass-shot. The comment on the ass-shot--from Olivia, no less. The nippleage. The re-shoot of the doorway scene w/o UST. NOT TO MENTION Josh's comments about the two of them in the changing room (banal much?) or his exchange with Matt about Thinking About It.

cagey
 
Been thinking about the voyeurs of Springfield. Wondering if perhaps their snickery comments are the way to express the unexpressable in terms of Olivia and Natalia and sexuality.

Of course.

And ditto Solitasolano about the passive-aggressive.

Nat's essentially been reduced to stalking Olivia, too, with this voyeurism thing.

cagey
 
I agree it was rude of Olivia not to call - I suppose if she hadn't run into Nat on the way out she might have left her without even so much as a message!

Touché. Smirk. (Sorry, just getting into the french thing with the voyeurism and all.)

Doesn't bother me since the show's all about showing us this is just Olivia in the final throes of resistance. Jeanna emailed (is not checking in since she enjoyed the ep [no Rafe, no Frank] & wants to maintain her high) to say she thought she spotted the thumb-ring, & wonders if it's CC signaling to the audience or what.


So much for the fervent promises around being friends no matter what at the spa. It's more of what we've had all along. First they had bed-death without actually ever getting together; now they have being best-friends afterwards. ...Oh! So that means this IS a lesbian storyline, right?
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
Cagey, I agree with you...we'll end up with Matt and Josh playing gin rummy together at Farley's--can we rename it the 'Mosh' Pit?

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cagey
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"Mosh" pit, Jeanna? Love it. ;) You did notice that Josh was going down on a hot dog right before Matt came back from being dismissed by Natalia. Oh and eating a pint of ice cream to soothe a broken heart? Matt! These two could have a future together.

In other Springfield news: Reva broke out of her self-imposed exile today - can Olivia be far behind? Buzz gets to use tongue to clean off Lillian's face: another blatant double standard! And my spoiled sisters: Vanessa marries Billy on 14 September. Please consult your twitter pics to correlate and recalibrate the speed to which we will reach closure on the Spencer/Rivera contract accordingly.

Thumb rings - reading elsewhere, someone observed that Reva also has worn a thumb ring. So I think we'll have to toss out that one as a wink-and-a-nod to the lesbian viewer. Well, unless you really want to go there with Reva

The flip side of stalking are the exhibitionists Lillian and Buzz. Well mostly Buzz. But today's message is that everyone wants to get into someone's pants. I believe this message has come up before. :o
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
By my rough count, Olivia said "I can't" 15 times while getting dressed to go out, & then in her exchanges with Natalia.

Matt & Josh... yep, that'll work. Frank & Rafe, of course. Hm. Maybe this show *does* have An Agenda. ;p
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traveller
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Cagey
Quote:
 
Thumb rings - reading elsewhere, someone observed that Reva also has worn a thumb ring. So I think we'll have to toss out that one as a wink-and-a-nod to the lesbian viewer. Well, unless you really want to go there with Reva


Not necessarily ...... Article on thumb rings below
Quote:
 
More recently to wear a thumb ring on the right indicates that you are into same sex relations.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Gift-of-Inde...!&id=161349

Reva wears her thumb ring on her left hand. Olivia wears hers on her right thumb. Also noticed last night at Emmys Crystal was wearing her thumb ring. You see it when she is being interviewed by CBS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQqbtg2wZo

Side note - Crystal's dress ... love the cleavage ;)
Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood ..... Helen Keller

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent .... Eleanor Roosevelt

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