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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,230 Views) | |
| ekny | Sep 3 2009, 05:36 PM Post #931 |
In love with a prisoner
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Gotta go get my head drilled, crap! Thx for the links, will have to wait. She put *on* a Valley Girl accent right at the end, and yes I know they play with their voices and yes sound compression & image-quality on YouTube and yes way thin but... this sounded tweaked, to me. All I'm saying. Rather sloppily so, in fact, but will wait for SS's verdict.
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| abzug | Sep 3 2009, 06:12 PM Post #932 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I guess I'll be the first to write about today's ep. For me, it had some nice moments, and they were nearly all from Natalia. First, I loved her strategy in Liv's office. She made herself low-status (is it ok if I come in?) but then was very definitive and firm about what she thinks is right for Olivia. Her whole angle (we're going to be together, and you will regret not being there for this moment in our lives) is confident and caring without (to me) being arrogant. Second, the whole "she's the love of my life" line to Doris. I think it's the first time we've heard Natalia speak this way to a third-party, and it's certainly the first time she's acknowledged her feelings to Doris in any way. Given how much Doris has looked down on Natalia for her "baking" and her "I don't know what you think I am" moments, this felt really big to me. Clever touch with the jewelry: Natalia was wearing a heart necklace with her cross, so that the heart and the cross kept getting entertwined and overlapped. As for Olivia, other than her face looked swollen and frozen in the scene where she finds out about Philip (lay off the botox and restalin Crystal, PLEASE!), I thought two things were interesting. She's needing other people to tell her to stop being such an idiot and be with Natalia. The fact that the messengers are Frank and Doris is fitting, I think, because they are the least romantic (each in their own way--Frank b/c he loved Nat, and Doris b/c she's always pushed love aside for other goals). I was going to be pissed if it was all men telling Liv to get back with Natalia (a la Thomas and Helen), so the inclusion of Doris felt important. I wish OC were a better actress, and could have shown that she was talking about herself AND Olivia in that final scene (instead it read as if she was talking about herself, and Liv was thinking about how it applied to her). The second interesting thing was that the Phillip-tells-Emma moment was entirely about Olivia, and barely about Phillip or Emma at all. They rarely film anything that way on this show, as far as I can tell. It worked nicely, and enhanced the story more (because, really, how many times do we have to see Phillip tell people?). |
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| ekny | Sep 3 2009, 08:56 PM Post #933 |
In love with a prisoner
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OC has shown herself to be pretty adept, I found no fault with her presentation. In fact, to the extent the writers are still capable of it (or interested in bothering), they were, once again, doing the we're-talking-two-different-levels parallel thing we all enjoyed so much in Feb-March. They're just not doing it with Olivia and Natalia. There, we got we're-looking-out-of-different-windows, instead. I'm thinking... that's a metaphor, yeah? <sigh> Doris's scene also paralleled Olivia's scene with Frank, and to the extent OC is an infinitely more capable actor, if you do a compare-and-contrast there I think it's clear what the writers were going for. Because Frank's dialogue with Olivia makes NO sense, as advice to her. He's just talking to himself. She's barely listening, she's not even bothering to look at him. (I do think it is also in part the scriptwriters' rationale for why Liv & Nat are just as valid a couple as Anyone Else with a Baby but I'm trying to make nice here so only discussing Doris. Which is the one thing I am able to discuss at the moment. <toothy grin>*) Don't beat yourself up, do whatcha need to do, blahblah. GMF's redemption arc, it seems. Doris's dialogue is at least a tad more direct, and more pertinent, and is about the only dialogue not totally obsessed with Families or Babies. eta; posted before seeing Solitasolano's!! ![]() eta2: sorta. Do you know the last time I had a cavity? (This is number 2, I'm mortified.) 1993. The dentist thought they'd made a mistake or it was someone else with my name. So it *is* toothy but there's some drooling. Which is why I'm being so pleasant: I'm still anesthetized. |
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| solitasolano | Sep 3 2009, 08:57 PM Post #934 |
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The more I think of it, the more I love the not-allowed-to-show-same-sex-intimacy variation on a theme threshold moment. The two main times before the threshold moment has happened at Olivia’s threshold; the “would you like to come in?” and the Natalia siege or stakeout. This time, however, the threshold belongs to completely to Natalia, the farmhouse. The invite is barely audible, yet unmistakable at the same time, hardly a grand gesture, but significant none the less. Olivia’s smiling ‘thankyou no thankyou’ is an indication she understands the message. Natalia sending out the I want you vibes... Righto, this is for sure the first. Until now, it’s been Olivia singing this song. A tone twist for the story as the story plods along. I believe that was the 95 degree plus humidity day…I’ll excuse it this one time…. Liked Fr**k chasing her down. Too bad he has to be involved at all. But yes, another third person to tell O to get her shit together. Of course it's all about Olivia, well that and her hairdos...sorry feeling irreverent today. ETA posted before seeing ek's |
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| cagey | Sep 3 2009, 09:44 PM Post #935 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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You people just forced me to watch clips! Threshold of the FoL. Last time Olivia refused to cross it was after she said she would wait until Nat was ready - remember, Nat pleaded for her just to come in for *coffee*. Now even the FoL itself is looking out at her stuck in the yard...Come back, Shane, come back (no not that Shane, the original Shane). I have to go home and watch the whole show, see how - or if - this all fits in cause Olivia is sticking out like nobody's business. Wearing that infamous white pantsuit from the "jiggle the wires" scene. Catatonic and not just about Philip - it felt like he was just a good excuse to cry. I agree with the parallel between the Frank scene and the Doris scene with Olivia. Frank was talking to himself but he having as close to an epiphany as he can get and suggesting that Olivia ought to do the same. Whereas Doris was all regrets for not taking risks and seizing the day. |
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| abzug | Sep 3 2009, 09:50 PM Post #936 |
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In love with a prisoner
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This wasn't the first time we were on Natalia's threshold. Remember the "You're so worth waiting for" scene? When Nat practically begged Olivia to come in and stay for coffee and Olivia left? So now we've had FOUR threshold scenes, and no crossings. It's enough to drive a girl crazy. One other thing I'd say about today's threshold scene was that it was hard for me to conceive of it in the sexual way (unlike the other three) because Emma had already gone in, and there's nothing which undermines sexual potential like a 10-year-old kid wandering around, particularly one with such all-star interrupting instincts like Jellybean. So this felt like a family-threshold, not a sexual-threshold, as the other three did. So I almost feel like the old desexualization wasn't strong enough, they had to desexualize it even further! (Sorry, in a cranky mood today, which I fear is coloring my reading of things.) ETA And I posted before seeing cagey's post. It's like the theme of this afternoon, isn't it? |
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| abzug | Sep 3 2009, 10:17 PM Post #937 |
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In love with a prisoner
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From a friend, for those of us who can't bear to watch the entire show:
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| solitasolano | Sep 3 2009, 10:30 PM Post #938 |
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And now you all have forced me to go back and look at the 'so worth waiting for clip'! Ok, I'll cede threshold scene because of the invite top come inside, although I've always considered it one of the many porch "us" scenes because they aren't on or in the threshold like the others. Interesting enough, I realize this was the Olivia siege on the threshold scene as she is waiting for Natalia when she came home.
The kid inside isn't a big hangup to the sexual thing...I mean, isn't that how Natalia snagged Olivia anyways...besides TPTB would be hard pressed to desexualize these ladies any more than they already have. Boy, Olivia couldn't turn her back fast enough, could she? |
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| ekny | Sep 4 2009, 12:25 AM Post #939 |
In love with a prisoner
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I posted my short-but-sorta-amiable & thought, I am the only cranky person here, everyone is sooo mellow! Whew. Guess not.General feeling: fool me twice? Oh I don't *think* so. I mean abt the whole, you know. Thing. I'm afraid my snark to poor Cagey made her feel like she had to see the clips outta context: sorry 'bout that. Public mea culpa. --Olivia is missing Precious Family Moments. I'm trying to act like an adult here, but this is the. dumbest. least likely. least realistic. mode of courtship I have ever. seen. in my life. --was the scene with Nat & Frank supposed to show us something? Be humorous because it's in the middle of some other GL thing? It was beyond static. It was stillborn. Re Frank's scene with Olivia, I have to wonder: so... this irregular relationship is sanctioned because there are other even less orthodox families in town; because Babies Need Parents; and *since* everything is 'upside down' and Frank no *longer* knows 'right from wrong'... yo, it's all good. That's what I'm getting, here. I'm actually not-liking Olivia's scenes with Nat because they're all about Nat *telling* her What's Gonna Happen. So yeah, I agree with Cagey's Shane shtick. But the whole round-up-the-families-and-reel-em-back-home thing with Olivia is doing nothing for me. Traditional as it may be. Of course I agree with Abzug and everyone else on the planet about how extreme their desexualization has been, but I'm actually past that now. <shrug> At the moment I'm just wanting to know why--whyoWHY--can't Olivia and Natalia have a real conversation? Oh. Right. Cause then they'd put up a do-not-disturb sign on the door after chin-chucks and the story would be over. I want something *substantive*, she moaned plaintively. Between the two characters who are actually supposed to be having a relationship. This one-way thing... it's going nowhere. Hopefully it'll be over tomorrow, this week's endless blah-ness. Yes, JL actually put across something direct, unadulturated, & reasonably sexy (for Nat's character) at the door. But--for the zillionth time... so what. It doesn't go anywhere. So I can't enjoy it anymore. (--But wait! ek gets points for the Phillip deathbed scene late-edition prediction! She does. Just in time, too, right under the wire. She's so cute. *This* cheers her up more than the stupid episode. I wonder if I can develop a gambling problem or if it's too late for me....) --Annnnd. ALAN! in his *own* redemption arc, is going to tell Rafe to stop being such a dickhead to his mom. Because *families need each other*. Finally, however, message du jour: --Olivia is Reminded of the Meaning of Family. Kill me now, kill me soon, kill me dead, make it last. "I don't feel anything." Ok, I'm finally laughing. No, you don't honey. Can you say pros-the-tic? Annnd... did Emma just name that baby? I couldn't quite hear. If so I'll be around to collect my prize annny minute. --Olivia worries Emma will grow up without her father. See? This, right here? The father Olivia wanted to murder, lived in fear of for years, and would do anything to protect her daughter from a mere 6 months ago? THAT father? Oh yeah, I can see how Liv was real worried about the absence of a male role model in Em's life. What's bugging me most (at the moment) is how ridiculously underutilized CC was in her own scenes. All passive reaction-shots, nothing is *happening* with Olivia's character. What a waste. Yeah, I know: tomorrow she'll prob show up for the sonogram anyway & we'll have Handholding of Luv and tentative baby-naming or some such. If Emma didn't already do that. But really. So frustrating. I know. All the threads are being pulled in. Except--as Abzug noted: Olivia's. eta: ----------thinking.... Something's really off here. I mean more than the usual. I think it's that they have nowhere to *go* with Olivia. We've had 6 weeks of Agony. Now she's back to normal mode, trying to protect herself, so her primary emotions are merely suspicion and... hm, not sure. I'm not getting anything from her commensurate with the leap she's about to take. I'm not getting any of the angst from before: no fear, no pain, she's just shut down. AND no UST: no desire. This is not interesting to watch; it's not engaging. This isn't a courtship, any more. It's too one-sided for that. There's nothing coming *off* her. I'm not getting longing; only regret. Like even if she does this she's doomed. So she's coming to a place where maybe she will, but if she's this resigned--how am I supposed to root for that? (Doubtless I am supposed to infer those things in their absence but uh... absent is absent. They're not there on the screen. So I can't see 'em. So I don't believe them.) It's totally passive. This thing they have Olivia doing. I get why, but it's not working. She's the least passive character on the show. |
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| cagey | Sep 4 2009, 02:20 AM Post #940 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Threshold theory: perhaps the frustrated purse toss at the door of the FoL back during her drinking to forget days was her last ditch effort to batter it down? Wow. If I can use that word about a GL ep. This one was a doozy. Nothing left to do but kick out the fire and call in the dogs. There was even gratuitous FedEx placement. ![]() Today's theme was Beating the Odds. Which was echoed appropriately in Olivia's last speech about risk taking. She is no longer taking risks and she is about to lose out. She is isolated in her white eff-me pantsuit, passive, lifeless. I agree ekny it is very disturbing and really kinda boring. Her would be girlfriend is having a much better time with her actual daughter. Cause meanwhile: it's all about life and renewal in Springfield. And pink lipstick. Lots of pink lipstick, even on the boys. And equally important - that people who are not your blood family can be part of your extended community. So Blake, Ashlee and Cyrus save the collective Cooper butt with 2 minutes to spare by publishing Jenna's biography. The three of them pulled together to get through. They took a risk and they Beat the Odds. Meanwhile over at Cedars - and do you get the impression they have the National Health in Springfield if Nat can drop by and get what looks like free vitamins? - every damn family member, the nurses and interns are signing up to see if they can match Philip for the Bone Marrow Miracle. Not such a miracle - James is a match. A match made is soap load: Alan is too! Grudge match: which selfish entitled dude will prove their selflessness by possibly dying to save the third selfish entitled dude. But if it is a success - the donor and Philip will both Beat the Odds. Based on this alone, ek I am going to have to discuss with the Otalia Gaming Commission and see if the Olivia scene with Philip qualifies as a "deathbed scene." We meet on Fridays and are open to bribes. (Wait let me check - solitasolano, abzug - are we open to bribes?)I think what Emma said about the baby was: "it's an Emma kick" and that's how she knew it was a girl. My sister told my mother her baby was going to be a girl and her name was going to be cagey. Do not bet against the powers of small females. |
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| solitasolano | Sep 4 2009, 03:42 AM Post #941 |
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I thought for a moment Mercury had gone retrograde extra early on the east coast, but it doesn't kick in until Sunday. We'll discuss it at the upcoming meeting. |
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| ekny | Sep 4 2009, 07:53 AM Post #942 |
In love with a prisoner
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Oh, Phillip will totally make it: he has Beth & they're like, soap royalty or something, almost, right? So we need a King & Queen to guard the lighthouse so the fans can imagine the town whole, after the show's gone. eta: 1) The entire show is only on 3 days next week: wtf? Is that why it's running til the 21st or is that nonsense, it's still the 18th? 2) IS jlh writing now, rather than EW? I thought EW did the End. If JLH is writing... that would kinda seem to answer the question of why we've been going nowhere for months in the way we have. Because despite my bitching, today's *writing* was better simply because it HAD some layers, as opposed to-- etc. |
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| abzug | Sep 4 2009, 12:27 PM Post #943 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I thought it was on four days next week? It's not on Monday because of the holiday, but what other day is it not on? |
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| ekny | Sep 4 2009, 05:35 PM Post #944 |
In love with a prisoner
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I have a few comments but want to wait til later in the day when everyone has seen this. After all, we have the rest of the weekend--and it's a long one. Which we'll probably need to discuss what is clearly the summary episode for this storyline: it's game, set, match. Wrap it up, put it in a box, put a bow on it. We're done. Everything else is just details. This might actually BE the show that gets to have its cake and eat it too. Of course, it's theoretical, labelless cake. Well, ok, it has a base and frosting. The cake itself is kinda... imaginary. But anyway. spoiler for today's ep only: I just want my mother to be happy and she hasn't let herself because she was afraid of what her own daughter would think. Houswives. Mothers. Peoria. Are you listening? Cause that's the message tattooed to this storyline's ass. Blinking lights, horns blaring. Neon. Fireworks. Pay attention, okay? Welcome to the heartland of America. Please stay within the posted speed limits and have a nice day. Oliver Spencer! We are with you in Springfield. |
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| abzug | Sep 4 2009, 05:56 PM Post #945 |
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In love with a prisoner
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DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED TODAY'S EP AND DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED! Interesting that you mention labels, because I noticed that when Doris came out to Ashlee today she used the word 'lesbian' multiple times to describe herself. If we're keeping track of when this word is used, whether the show considers it a 'dirty' word, this would seem to be evidence that they don't have a problem with labels, or with the label lesbian, it's just that Liv and Nat don't necessarily fall under that label (yet). I'm trying to remember if Doris ever said anything like "I am a lesbian" before today's episode, or if it was just the non-explicitly-spoken-but-completely-acknowledged truth. I like that it was finally spoken. I like Ashlee being the one who pushes Rafe toward some more acceptance of his mother. I thought it was interesting that Ashlee just assumes that Rafe isn't homophobic. That doesn't factor in to the discussion of the feelings they are both having about their moms being lesbians. What I DON'T like is another f%&king straight man having to tell a lesbian that she's in love with a woman and should be with that woman. SOOOOO sick of this! First Thomas, now Philip. Enough already! Why couldn't it be Doris who convinces Olivia? Or, even better, why couldn't it have been Natalia, you know, the other gay woman who's in love with her? Why do lesbians need straight men to enable/facilitate/encourage them? It's ridiculous, and so patriarchal. The lack of kissing is also just ridiculously intrusive at this point. I mean, really. It makes every scene fall flat when it should soar. The actors aren't even trying to sell it. I know we often hate to criticize CC, but I've heard from fellow actors and soap reporters how her special talent is taking ridiculous, badly written soapy material and just making it work. Why isn't she doing that in this case? It's very distracting. |
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8:45 AM Jul 11