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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,229 Views)
ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Some part of me is weirdly amused or charmed at the role-switch or something, here, Abzug... :) No offense. This show never *had* any politics to speak of, so--why be upset with the lack of them now? It's doing exactly what it set out to do. The fact that I can't bring myself to respect it--not its methods or even its goals beyond a kind of sani-wipe approach to Difference--just helps me sit back at this point & shrug. What else could anyone--ever, possibly--have expected?


I got ranty in private, of course, because that's my understanding of how I'm supposed to react to a soap & how I do. But basically, I found today's episode to be the exact cumulation of where this story's been heading all along. These writers have delivered consistent product. It's just not a product I want to buy (or ever did). We got sold (or I did) because CC's acting was so far beyond the material. ...These scriptwriters, these actors, even; this idea of audience, this format: not my planet. Getting my shuttle ready: there's nothing for me, here.

I agree with you: just... for different reasons. And as you will see: it's not that I'm not a tad irritated. Just a smidge.


1) Labels

Lesbian. Here's what I think: Doris gets to come out because she is doing double-duty for Otalia. This way... they don't have to.

Doris gets to carry this label. Not because Olivia and Natalia "aren't" lesbians yet. Not... quite. (And for this story, it's very important to note: will never be identified as lesbians, gay girls, queers, dykes, or even (gasp) bisexual: none of that silly label nonsense here. Olivia and Natalia are the postergirls for the Two Women Who Happened to Fall in Love model. And you just KNOW how I feel about that.)

No: Doris gets to carry the label because she's single and unhappy. And lying has made her a *bad parent*. Doris carries the negative baggage of the Lable, associated with all the wrongs her character has done. Olivia and Natalia, off in NeverNeverLand with the nose-rubbing and lack of cunnilingus (oh gosh! I'm soooo sorry, did I upset someone?): they get to be happy because they are label-free.

This is the same mentality that actually seems to believe that nauseating, self-serving propaganda scripted around Springfield and America during the Fourth of July speechifying. And what is wrong with that pap is wrong here, too. For all the same reasons. It's not okay if you use propaganda for 'good' purposes and to a 'good' end: it's still compromised, it's still dishonest, and it still covers up uncomfortable truths with sugar-coated lies.


2) Permission

This has been part of the fabric of this show (in my view) from the first scenes I saw, from last December or November (and no doubt long before--but always, for this story: it's a soap. There has to be A Man. Preferably more than one.) Package deal. Ah... woops. Let's not go there.

It's the thing I've always minded most--beyond the unctuous Christianity, the preachiness, the Mister Rogers approach to everything. There is nothing new here, in today's episode, is there? Men are the moral cornerstones of this stage--not women. Men Advise. Wisely. That's their role. They are more sensitive than the women. (That... is a soap thing, far as I can tell.) etc. It's boring to even summarize: it's that reactionary. We're awfully far outside these people's framework, to even see why they can't see how dopey it is, how little sense it makes.

Bad Girls, whatever its flaws, erred on the side of humanism, for the most part. This GL business... they can't even manage that.

(For example: why is Nat explaining and justifying herself to Frank, around the subject of Olivia? Let's guess! Because... she is trying to get him to understand. Not because their non-relationship requires explaining, justification, or Frank's approval. This paternalism (you say tomato... :)) is the same thing that gets us Phillip telling Natalia she shouldn't give up because O. needs her. Because he's been around for all of this & can see more clearly than anyone else & has a penis. And poor Nat, who may be dumb as a bag of rocks according to who is writing her script on any given day, is actually in need of someone to say something *this* obvious, because she hasn't figured it out. It's for them. The audience.)

My guess is we could go through the script very carefully (or some poor sod writing a senior thesis could, anyway) & have an extremely highly-structured, carefully delineated sort of meta-read on what is being told to the audience at any given moment--that goes along with--or against--the audience's understanding of character for that moment. (See: Rafe's responses to Ash with his whole I'm a Cool Guy with Value-Neutral Questions shtick.)


3) CC's affect

She's been given nothing to sell, imo. Zilch. She's wandering around the lake, weeping and talking to herself. The only person who can talk sense into her is Dying Phillip cause they have a child between them annnnd cause Olivia needs a GM in her life, too. Silly broads: what can you do?

I'm perfectly willing to criticize her work, but: what'd she have to work *with*, here? Where would there have been a point--before the last scene--a moment in which she could do anything different? She's not supposed to be emoting: she's shut down. It was stupid, the whole presentation here, with Zombie!Nat back from her trip to St Teresa's.

(I do think it's too bad CC fucked up the timing on the danced at your funeral/might have, shoot, line. I sensed amusement between her & GA abt that but maybe it's me.)

Otherwise, the scenes today were All About Phillip. Phillip enabling/facilitating *both* Nat *and* Liv. Why? Cause he's more important than just any ole man: he's the show's moral anchor, their last and biggest redemption story. Phillip's the new portable Jesus for this show. Wheel him into a room to gaze down at everyone.

She leaned forward confidentially: He's dying, you know.

Dude. Awesome street cred.

I figured out: this is the one time we get to make exceptions, in soaps. Which would rather seem to explain all the mystery diseases & returns from the dead and not-quite-deaths, etc. The one time everyone can actually speak from their Hearts directly to another character they need to speak to.

Was there in fact a single cell phone in this episode...?

wee footnote:
(In keeping with this show's... weirdness: all of the Olivia or Natalia scenes today were... not about them. Until the end. And all of everyone else's scenes were about... Otalia. And that has got JLH written all over it, but on a much larger scale than we've seen before: essentially the whole episode.)
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
ekny
Sep 4 2009, 05:00 PM
wee footnote:
(In keeping with this show's... weirdness: all of the Olivia or Natalia scenes today were... not about them. Until the end. And all of everyone else's scenes were about... Otalia. And that has got JLH written all over it, but on a much larger scale than we've seen before: essentially the whole episode.)

Ugh, does this mean I need to watch the entire episode? I already watched 20+ minutes of it, I don't think I can bear the other bits too.

Good point about why Doris gets to be a lesbian, although I do think they have positioned her shame and the closet as being the source of her unhappiness, not her sexuality, so that's significant. I would imagine we're supposed to believe that now that she's being authentic, she'll be able to find love the way Nat and Liv have. So I don't think it's so bad that she's representing the lesbian label.
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abzug
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Oh, wait, and why have I not yet mentioned how OFFENSIVE I found the scene between Blake and Natalia where Blake tells Natalia not to push Frank away by being too focused on her family with Olivia. That made me want to vomit. Like, projectile vomit. And I know I don't need to explain why, because I'm sure you were all feeling exactly the same way.
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solitasolano
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I'm in full out sound editor mode so please excuse that I haven't read any of the comments because of work constrains, but I did look at the clips.

So I'm watching into that last anticipating scene. Fr**k and Nat are blah blah blahing and I'm think WHEN is Olivia going to appear....BING...well there goes the elevator bell...cue Olivia entrance any second now. (I think they used up their sound editing budget because they probably had to talk about and decide exactly where the elevator bing should go.) So it's like, well where did they sync the elevator bell/signal Olivia's approach?

Natalia, "I really want this baby to have a real FAMILY (BING) you know. Everyone I love the most...yada yada yada...enter you know who.

You know I wasn't even listening to what Fr**k and Nat were saying because it's so zzzzz.....but then BING...oh pay attention....LOL. I tell you, occupational hazard.

BING
(4:10 just in case)

Carry on see you all much much latter.
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Well, sure, I found all the Family stuff too tedious (and obvious) to mention except in passing, much less get wound up about because in this show it's like cookies & subtext. Except it's maintext. As for Blake, I chose to read that (and yes with the projectile) as Blake's own agenda w/GMF. It's possible it's yet another anvil but I don't think so: I think it was just another bit of frosting on the Family Cake. ;p

And yeah, I think your reading of Doris's coming out makes sense: again, I just feel like it's another way they get to have it both ways.

Solitasolano: loved the Bing! of Obviousness. :)
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cagey
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solitasolano You are awesome. I always think Cedars has but the one floor and maybe only the one examining room. Your *bing* just turned it into a much bigger place for me.

Today's episode theme: Carpe Diem.

I've not yet watched the clip version, but whole show wise, today's episode was centered around Alan. And courage. And going someplace scary because you have to. So I'm just folding in responses to previous postings along with general piffle.

Doris: Best thing - she starts right off saying she's always been a lesbian. Always knew, even when she tried to conform. I really like this as a statement about who lesbians are. And I don't think it's just us who get the message that now that Doris has started to be honest about who she is, she will find love (and of course, Family). I am not sure she is doing double duty for Otalia; but I do think she is collateral for Otalia. Assuming the Otalia argument is essentially that love comes in all sorts of forms.

Philip:
a) With Natalia: Don't think the point here is that the Great White Man is telling her to go take care of her woman. I think the purpose of this encounter is to show that Natalia is not some nutjob stalking Olivia. Other people know they are meant to be together and are wishing her well in that endeavor.

b ) With Olivia: The Dancing on your Grave was a nice shout back. Coming from the "why are we unlovable" encounter a few days ago, it is ironic that she was saying she was unlovable because of Natalia and now Philip says to her that she is loved. Olivia probably did need the other most unlovable to point out the obvious. The fact that this person is male doesn't bother me so much as the stupidity of Olivia fervently rejecting that love in the first place.

c) With Alan: I am under the impression Alan is planning to hogtie Philip to the gurney just to prove that he loves him. Olivia should be grateful things didn't go that far with Nat. Or not ... it might have be interesting to watch. Maybe Josh would be behind the door.

Blake: I distinctly heard her say yesterday, when Marina and Shayne introduced the New Parenting Model, Are you two getting married? Which was incredibly inappropriate considering Marina is still married to and presumably in love with Mallet. She has a screw loose - this is well known. Ecco ci, she deserves Frank. "Don't push Frank out" put her as the Voice of the Patriarchy. Or other people who care about Frank and father's rights. Goodness knows they are legion.

Our Boy Frank: He's become this puppy begging at the table for scraps. That belly pat was just sad. I don't think Natalia was justifying herself to Frank. I do think she was expressing a teensy bit of doubt that Olivia would come through. It's pretty clear to me that she is being very polite to Frank, since he was invited to the dinner party, but he is not the one she is going home with. Nice to see that he gets it too.

The Family Thing: Interesting how "family" has morphed in Natalia's mind into exactly what many theorists of alternative (aka lesbian) families talk about. That Family is a social construct not having to do with blood relations or property, like it used to. Many a modern lesbian lives in such an alternative extended family, made up of close friends, biological relations, and exes upon whom we can rely, trust, turn to. Even when we might not identify it as such. Best definition I know of "family" is "the people who have to take you in."
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
Great posts everyone. And I totally didn't notice that "bing" so I am glad for the professional ears of solitasolano.

cagey
 
I am not sure she is doing double duty for Otalia; but I do think she is collateral for Otalia. Assuming the Otalia argument is essentially that love comes in all sorts of forms.

When you say collateral, are you saying that Doris's evolution was inspired by the love between Liv and Nat? Because that's kind of how I read it. And it reminds of of that film from about 10 years ago "The Love Letter" which starred Ellen DeGeneres and a few other folks, and there was this anonymous love letter which kept floating around this small town, and it wound up being this catalyst for all these people to find love. And at the end you find out that the love letter was written by one woman to another, so that the message I took was that lesbian love was inspirational and transformative to everyone it touched. Which is kind of how I feel about Otalia and Doris.

cagey
 
I think the purpose of this encounter is to show that Natalia is not some nutjob stalking Olivia. Other people know they are meant to be together and are wishing her well in that endeavor.

Oooh, good point. She definitely didn't seem like she personally needed reassurance or encouragement, so your reading of the scene sounds right on target for me.

cagey
 
The Family Thing: Interesting how "family" has morphed in Natalia's mind into exactly what many theorists of alternative (aka lesbian) families talk about.

I think this is why I am struggling so much in my reactions to this show. It's like radical one second, and completely patriarchal the next. It makes my head spin. There really would be a fascinating thesis in how soaps deal with taboo storylines, whether the dominant culture is always in control, or whether there is a fierce battle between the anarchic force of the taboo storyline and the traditional soap world which tries to contain it, but can instead be taken over, Trojan-horse-like.
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ekny
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Speaking of surreal, anyone know anything about some TV Guide interview CC did where she apparently said she had to tamp down her lustful gazes? I mean... that's really extreme, in a show where Buzz... kissed Alan on the head today?? The show's continuing blindness to any kind of homosex subtext--Buzz/Frank, Frank/Rafe etc (what IS it with Frank? nevermind)--is really amusing. Although also extremely predictable.

Also: Frank touching Nat's stomach? Gross, extremely inappropriate, & totally made of squick.

Oh dear. It seems I'm getting irritated at the double-standard again. Equanimity, where art thou...? :innocent

***ETA

hup! restored:

@girlskout God, forehead sex! Tnanks for that! What to do...what to do.....

loved the forehead sex today on GL! its a great move. gonna try it out this week.
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cagey
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ekny I think the lustful gazing was in the context of the article where she said she did everything but pull JL's hair. Speaking of which, pancakesandavalium.com has an amusing podcast with CC. Spolery only if yout think there isn't a happy ending.

abzug
 
When you say collateral, are you saying that Doris's evolution was inspired by the love between Liv and Nat? Because that's kind of how I read it.


That too, but my initial thought was more about marketing. Showing that Otalia are not some freak of nature but that other models of being loving are possible.

abzug
 
I think this is why I am struggling so much in my reactions to this show. It's like radical one second, and completely patriarchal the next. It makes my head spin. There really would be a fascinating thesis in how soaps deal with taboo storylines, whether the dominant culture is always in control, or whether there is a fierce battle between the anarchic force of the taboo storyline and the traditional soap world which tries to contain it, but can instead be taken over, Trojan-horse-like.


Word. We could have a conversation about american popular culture and it's propaganda. We could adjourn to the Lido deck, have a drink and think about it. Which is to say, if we want to start another converstional thread about what it means to be a lesbian interpreting american popular culture - I'd be there.
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ekny
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Oh. Huh. Well, I feel stupid. I skimmed that, but someone somewhere else posted like this meant she had explicitly been instructed not to show lust. I didn't read it that way.

Thanks for the link. Never even heard of the site. Sort of of 2 minds abt whether to eyeball any of it at this point....
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ekny
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http://angelicalemke.blogspot.com/2009/08/...defense-of.html

This makes a reasonable case for what this show has failed to do, which is fill in the gaps around Nat's leaving & Liv's crash & burn. I'm not convinced I see Olivia's fears as internalized homophobia, it's just too interpretive for me. (At this point I'm more likely to buy she'd say something about going slow (does she???) just bec she can't take any other kind of ambiguity or refusal from N.) In short I think her fears *have* been articulated clearly and they're about self-esteem or self-image--being unlovable.

and sayyy... what happened to all that talk about a Grand Gesture. Huh? Hmph.
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solitasolano
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Did you mention this podcast, cagey? Anyways, it entertained me greatly.
I usually find fan podcasts self conscious, self important (especially on the interviewers part), and more of the same. But this Pancakes and a Valium phone interview with Crystal Chappell was a lot of fun. I especially liked the bits about ad libbed lines, and its a great moment for the pancake girls when CC says valium was ad-libbed and added to the scripted line.

Anyways, off to decide where to put elevator bings for the 6th sat in a row. Na na.
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cagey
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ekny
Sep 5 2009, 06:29 AM
I'm not convinced I see Olivia's fears as internalized homophobia, it's just too interpretive for me. (At this point I'm more likely to buy she'd say something about going slow (does she???) just bec she can't take any other kind of ambiguity or refusal from N.) In short I think her fears *have* been articulated clearly and they're about self-esteem or self-image--being unlovable.

and sayyy... what happened to all that talk about a Grand Gesture. Huh? Hmph.

Taking things slow was how a spoiler described things. Olivia hasn't said it herself.

I agree that the case for internalized homophobia on the part of Olivia is thin. But I don't think it can be entirely dismissed as one of the components for Olivia's fears about commitment and her own self-esteem. After all those attempts at finding true love and social acceptance with a man, to discover that the person you were meant to be with is a woman must cause at least a few minutes of consternation.

Oh yes, the Grand Gesture. Maybe something will come of it yet, but that's one good example of how the audience creates the soap. I don't think there has been any indication that Natalia was supposed to make a grand gesture, has there? But we collectively decided there should be one and now you are wondering where it is. It's a participatory art form. ;)

This morning's sodden thought: Other characters voicing Olivia's inner struggle. There have been at least 2 scenes with Olivia in the foreground, close up, and another character behind her speaking almost reflectively about the big issue that is on Olivia's mind. Lillian and the your best friend will need you to hold her. Frank saying don't overthink things because in the big picture things aren't so bad - nice cause he states exactly what Olivia's problem is: Natalia is in love with Olivia but she's having Frank's baby. I think there was another scene - with Josh maybe, in the park? I haven't the energy to wade through the clips to find it.

Yes, solitasolano that was the podcast. The stuff about the ad libs was most entertaining.
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
I agree abt the interview, despite the crap sound-quality it was relaxed & nicely-paced. CC was diplomatic, as usual, abt the show, and for sure the ad-lib info was great. But I liked that they asked her goofy, geeky questions; I imagine outside of fandom, she doesn't get much of that, so it's always interesting to hear how someone handles things like, So whaddya got against socks? kinda stuff.

Cagey, thx for clarifying abt the line.

cagey
 
After all those attempts at finding true love and social acceptance with a man, to discover that the person you were meant to be with is a woman must cause at least a few minutes of consternation.

Of course. I find 'defining' all that as internalized homophobia a little boring, that's all, a little reductive. Those issues are just part of the larger package of things Olivia has to deal with.

cagey
 
I don't think there has been any indication that Natalia was supposed to make a grand gesture, has there?

No, there was dialogue about it during the happy-dance exchange. Nat herself generated the idea, & that was *before* she did a runner for 6 weeks.
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abzug
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ekny
Sep 5 2009, 12:21 PM
cagey
 
I don't think there has been any indication that Natalia was supposed to make a grand gesture, has there?

No, there was dialogue about it during the happy-dance exchange. Nat herself generated the idea, & that was *before* she did a runner for 6 weeks.

And there were many other examples of such dialogue foreshadowing plot events, such as Olivia's line about waiting for the next brick to fall and hit her in the head. So I still stand by our assumption that Nat would make a grand gesture. The problem, of course, with soap writing, is they plan for something, and then drop it without qualms, so while I assume they were planning for there to be a grand gesture, I'm also assuming they ran out of time, or something else got in the way.
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