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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,226 Views) | |
| abzug | Sep 9 2009, 08:50 PM Post #991 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Cagey, that was a most excellent summary. Microsofty, for a lesbian viewer, the most interesting period for this couple was not after they told each other they were in love with each other (which is when that spa storyline you saw took place) but instead it's when they evolve from contentious aquaintances to committed friends to in love (but not saying anything). That took place from Aug or Sep '08 through April 09, and included generally great writing and great acting. I'd highly recommend watching these clips on YouTube. What was particularly fun about it was that the two characters were having a lesbian storyline (moving in together, arguing over how to decorate their home, doing family things together) without being aware of it (and without the physical stuff, but that's the same as right now, when they are aware of it, so...). Point being, they've been portrayed as a pair, a couple, by the show since last fall, and that was lovely to watch, because the focus was on loving intimacy between two women. But then the show mucked it up by not actually allowing their relationship to progress in any sort of normal manner, one of the actresses was away for six weeks on maternity leave, and the whole thing kind of deflated. |
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| ekny | Sep 9 2009, 11:11 PM Post #992 |
In love with a prisoner
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And here you were doing so well with the Objective, No-Snark Summary! Hee. Abzug: deflated. Yeah, that's one way of putting it. My question--my only real question--is the one that can't be answered: what *happened*? Microsofty, hiya. I can't do better than the two excellent summaries, above, although I'd footnote: if you're familiar with American soaps, that might really... help. If not it may be a bit of a culture-shock. As you know, I'm Murrikin; I've never watched a damn soap... and I've never quite gotten over the culture-shock, myself. ![]() I'd also say that although neither character is exactly lovable earlier on in the relationship, there's a lot of fighting--one of the ways this couple shows connection/pairing--earlier than the time-frame Abzug cites, starting around April 08. (There are also a whole lot of recently uploaded scenes to YouTube [recent meaning the last few months] that I still haven't caught up with, covering summer 08: no idea about them.) But the mid-March/April scenes do a lot of important work in terms of setting up the story and although difficult are interesting and often moving/well-acted. I wouldn't count them out. I like 'em, anyways. In short: although I'm not personally keen on the fighting/f*cking paradigm, since we'll never see the latter (or anything remotely near) on-screen, you might still want to see the former, because there is definitely sparkage. And they're funny, the fights, and well-scripted; they feel real. (Within the limited confines of soap 'reality'--a deeply flexible concept.) Why watch? If you're willing to put up with the later absurdities of the plotting (skipping the whole heart-thing, of course), the pleasure for me always was CC's performance, which by any standard is consistently way beyond what the show as a whole is able to offer, imo. It's funny, nuanced, and emotionally intelligent. It's also very likable, despite the fact she portrays a difficult, complicated character who especially early on, isn't always very... nice. Best might be to start where Abzug recommended, then backtrack if you're into it. |
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| cagey | Sep 10 2009, 02:12 AM Post #993 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Deflated you ask? It deflated because it got cancelled and they stopped telling the stories. That's my explanation and I am happy with it. Today's Otalia scenes were the comic relief. Their story has achieved that status and may stay there until there is another Dramatic Showdown...Where is Rafe these days? Much of the ep was Spauldings coming to terms with their Spaulinghood prior to the big surgery. Interlaced was Jeffrey proving he is a really bad shot - missing Edmund again and doing his secret agent shite. And then there was copious amounts of baby hugging amongst the Lewis relations - since they will shortly be in Edmund's gunsight. I fear for all those babies now that I know about the importance of "tummy time." At least Jonathan suggested putting them all on a blanket with one cookie for a cage match. Every Otalia scene was a *relief* to see. So Jonathan is bringing Sarah back to Springfield cause she's a girl and needs to be around female role models. I find this a nice little anvil for Frank, along with the microsecond badass Olivia over naming the baby. The Josh scene...it's like they were both taking up their baby-raising loads and saying goodbye to the good old sexy times. Or for a more positive spin, that was the last chin chuck Josh is ever gonna get from Olivia. She's going to be faithful from now on. Chin-chuck du jour - at least this time, the non-kiss-interuptus sort of felt organic as Frank had returned. And again, the snarky Olivia is back at Frank in a way that is highly pleasing. "Your Daddy is going to be Chief of Police." |
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| abzug | Sep 10 2009, 02:32 AM Post #994 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I was actually coming back online to talk about this moment specifically, and here you had already brought it up. Unless I am mistaken, and I am pretty DAMN sure I'm not, this is the first and only time Olivia has asserted herself, and her importance in Natalia's life, in regards to Frank. It is the first and only time she has claimed space for herself, essentially saying "This is mine, Frank, whether you like it or not." This one second was not nearly enough to make up for her pushing Natalia to date Frank, helping Frank plan those dates, telling Nat to say yes to Frank's engagement, telling Nat to marry Frank even after she had told Nat she was in love with her, acting as if it were her fault Frank's heart was broken and face beaten in post-wedding...I could go on, but I'm running out of breath with all these examples. Point being, Olivia has abnegated herself so thoroughly in regards to Frank that I almost didn't recognize her when she actually acted like Olivia Freakin' Spencer and (in a tiny tiny way) put Frank in his place by putting herself in hers. We needed SO much more of this--perhaps this is the true culprit of the storyline's deflation? Without Olivia's assertive, take no prisoners energy in everything she does, and without any physical contact, everything became so fear-based (characters' fear, writers' fear, network's fear) that the whole story became uninteresting, flaccid. In which case the problem began basically with the spa trip, Nat not wanting to share a bed, and Olivia basically deciding to be patient with Nat until Nat got over her fear of sex, rather than pushing Nat to get over it. |
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| ekny | Sep 10 2009, 03:33 AM Post #995 |
In love with a prisoner
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Alright, I hope this doesn't harsh anyone's mellow. I actually did edit it way down & remove most of the profanity and so forth. Still. I'm pissed. -------------- Snark Rating (1/10): 11 --7 minutes? Half of which are spent with or discussing Frank? I need to move slowly. // Last time I did that you broke my heart. Last time you did that we both wound up with something we've never had before. I don't even know how to begin addressing this anymore. There is simply no acknowledgment of the pain she caused Olivia from Nat. The shortcuts in the scripting for this 'new' version of Nat are terrible, imo. I hate who Nat has turned into. Sorry but--I do. I totally hate this pushy, passive-aggressive, smug, brainwashed bitch. Oops, silly me: it's *hormones*! She can do or say *anything*. She's pregnant. This is a rule. Even I know about this. Natalia has free license and there's nothing anyone can do to stop her. Step away from the oven, girl: my hands are up, see? Moving slowly back now, I'll just, haha, shut the door behind me, shall I? I don't need to see Liv whipped into submission any further, thanks. She tells Liv "how she moves" (or doesn't); how all three of them (repeated for the hard-of-understanding: isn't this a bit kinky for daytime?) are gonna name baby... ugh. Just ugh. Then we have what passes for Intimate Contact--extended shot of Olivia's hand lingering on Nat's prosthesis, and if that isn't the modern equivalent of the Hays Code one-foot-on-the-floor rule I don't know what is. Here's the thing: the need for this show to turn itself inside out to avoid showing two grown women being normally, sexually affectionate with each other is, itself, a perversion. The fallout is: kink. Fondling prosthetics. Voyeurism. And worst of all, of course, grown women acting like girls in elementary school. Then! For the audience's benefit, we spell out: 1) Liv showed up at the sonogram because that was 'her way of saying' she 'wants back in' (who can't understand this? This is so insulting I'm left spluttering. No, she showed up and did face scrunchies because she wanted out. For fuck's. sake. Why--WHY--can't the writers stop PATRONIZING the audience? It's not 'her' way of saying it--at all. Olivia's way would be to uh, show up and smile like she just re-found the love of her life and hold Nat's face 1b) --AND that Nat is 'sooo' [emphasis Liv's] much 'farther along' than she is (since *when*? Since Nat ripped her heart out? Yeah. Surprise.) 1c) --that Nat will have to be 'patient' while Liv 'catches up'. What's that mean, she's gonna go read a manual? Find religion? Read up on the difference between further and farther? Or... no wait! I know! She'll... ask a man for advice. 'Don't take too long'--(like, 6 weeks?)--'because this baby's not gonna wait'. 'I knew you'd understand that this is the right thing to do.' Let me ask. Seriously. How many of these lines--exactly--do I have to have crammed down my throat? (Then the rest: yes, Olivia does indeed see Josh; Nat makes more obnoxious pushy statements; Olivia continues whipped. I can't bother with the rest. It did nothing for me, I was way too pissed about what came before. 10 seconds of wonderfully playful banter [which involved no pushiness or moral coercion or browbeating at ALL, no ma'am] simply did not compensate for what has led up to this.) |
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| cagey | Sep 10 2009, 03:46 AM Post #996 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Right on! Yes I agree this is Olivia finally coming out from under the heap o'shit Frank piled on her regarding her place with Natalia and doing just a little, teeny ppppttttfffftt! I try not to think this joyful uppitiness isn't going to bite her/us very soon.
Deflation? Then Flaccid? Just what are your issues exactly? Seriously yes, the lack of BadAss Freakin Olivia has made the story go pear shaped. But BadAss Freakin Olivia is, we are meant to believe, a front for the tender lovin' really good Mom inside that just wants to have babies and be a Happy Family. At the risk of saying this one too many times, that is the american popular culture message. Where IS the Lido deck? Can we go there now? Excuse me, I might have to help some of our sisters who are out in the parking lot ruining their fringe. Oh and there's ek back from the parking lot - I will have to read! |
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| ekny | Sep 10 2009, 03:58 AM Post #997 |
In love with a prisoner
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A friend came over. I am going to watch high-IQ tv. Specifically, Burn Notice. This post is sarcasm-free. There is no irony or cynicism. The sun rises in the west. It was pointed out to me that Natalia is right at her IQ-level: the mistake is making Olivia operate like she, too, is a stupid straight woman. I was informed none of us have any dealings with stupid straight women if we can possibly avoid it. I suppose this is right. The show is fairly realistic about how ssw 'process'. Time to watch Gabrielle Anwar play with C4. It gives me... constructive ideas. We could all do worse. Nothing flaccid there. Nice four-pack. |
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| cagey | Sep 10 2009, 04:23 AM Post #998 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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If I might venture to say, you didn't particular like the Old Nat either. I don't find her to be any of those things. Except maybe smug. Smugness coming from knowing that she is right and Olivia is wrong -- which is not a usual dynamic for them.
Well that would be the issue, yes? Either you think she is whipped into submission or you think she is taking this move of her own free will. I prefer to think she wants to do this. It settles my stomach.
Now this we can discuss. Just how stupid is Nat supposed to look with the baby book of names? And the plural marriage reeking sense of *we* will decide on a name. Gads I am hoping this is an anvil in the making. But wait, there is no time for such.
Down girl - we have to have our summation speeches for those who missed Friday. It's okay. Gads I so want to give you a treat and then wipe the crumbs off your face. :rolleyes:
Now this is interesting. Catch up to what? I take that as a catch up to being the gayest family in Springfield. And I think that's what the Josh scene is about. Olivia has got to hang up her spurs and settle down to be a farmer. Just like Shane (not the L Word One, the movie one). Gag me with an american trope. |
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| solitasolano | Sep 10 2009, 04:53 AM Post #999 |
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One thing you miss if you watch the Otalia clips only is serious head injury, ie. having to witness the scene which follows immediately after the first O/N microsecond scene in which Fr**k fondles the sonogram pic (blunt strike to the forehead) of babygirl Spencer-Rivera. Then Reva comes in and calls him Grandpa Fr**k and says, “I know Henry was just yours and now he’s going to be part of our family….Who’s going to spoil him the most. “ Oy, my head hurts from enless anvils falling on me the audience.
The first part of the paragraph is a right on observation and warrants serious discussion. But that’s not what tonight is about as witness the second part of the paragraph which induced seizures as complications from my head injuries…..oh, I feel the pain, though I would love to see this list continued.
Although this is a rightfully observed comment, uninteresting, flaccid story telling only leads to more head trauma--see medical chart which follows below: The Jonathan/Lizzie/Sara-she-needs-her-mom triangle….ouch that’s my head again. Phil asks Bill to take care of everyone if he doesn’t make it through surgery. His reply, “Lizzie’s family is my family.” Ouch my head. Olivia and Josh: He tells her Henry is Shayne’s kid. O to J, “Congrats grandpa.” J to O, “Babies are amazing. They change everything.” OMG my head is bloody now. They change everything like, gee, how are we going to get Olivia to come over to the Natalia side again. Oh, but we’re not done yet. J to O, “You’re both great mothers.” So many anvils I think that one put me into a comma. Misc. OMG, Blake tells Reva that she used to wear Ross’ clothes after he died. The Ivy Olivia name shout out was cute. I know. I know. Blame it on the bloody head. Does Alan live? Do I care? “Doctors are paid to tell you the worst.”
Not unlike myself and present company at this moment. Let’s hear it for whipped! I know all about it. I liked today’s episode. WARNING: Goth nail look sighted in tomorrow's preview. WARNING for microsofty: see PM for YT playlist suggestions. |
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| cagey | Sep 10 2009, 05:18 AM Post #1000 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Both cozin'ed are we, or whatever that line from Twelfth Night is. I'll be Sir Toby if you want to play Sir Andrew. Perhaps abzug will consent to be Maria. Ek as the Fool? Blake has become just icky - she must be at just the right temperature for Frank now.
When I heard that I had a moment of wondering if Bill has slept with all the available Spaulding women. That would be a requirement for assuming the role of patriarch. And this is a really good reason for Otalia to be in the Coopers - the Lewis' lust after them, the Spaulding own them, the Coopers, now that they have no money problems, are a nice Middle Class American Family with which they can be tied.
Crap! You mean even my cover bet on the nail polish is going south? I can't get no traction on this game at all. |
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| ekny | Sep 10 2009, 06:35 AM Post #1001 |
In love with a prisoner
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The telling-not-talking thing is not usual; it's presumptuous; but most of all: it's unearned. Consistent for this show in the way they've handled this couple's non-communication in the last months but no more likable for all that.
Distasteful. Also I thought people were a smidge more creative with names. If she wants the damn baby so much, shouldn't she have ideas of her own? Thanks for the description of the great missing F---k scene, Solita! Yay. Now I don't have to see it.
You'll note I commented on none of this. It's too repellently stupid and offensive as a substitute for, um, like, a oh what is it called again? Right. Motivated relationship between two women including sex. Help me out here people, I know there's a word for it....
*Nice.*
THANK you! I'll bring my Pepto Dismal to work. |
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| abzug | Sep 10 2009, 12:44 PM Post #1002 |
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In love with a prisoner
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C'mon e. I mean, I get your crankiness, but now I think you're just being contrarian. Picking a name is a parenting decision. The three of them have attended the sonogram, and now they're choosing a name. This is how a script would show parents who do not yet have a baby but are going to have a baby participating in becoming parents. It has nothing to do with whether Nat has her own ideas. She's forming a parental triumverate (sp?) through all of these activities. The only other way the show could dramatize this is to show actual parenting, and that would require the baby already be here, and they don't have time for that. Other than that, I basically agree with everything you've said. |
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| microsofty | Sep 10 2009, 01:52 PM Post #1003 |
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Why, of course I am familiar with the American soap. A good soap always has the following fundamental ingredients (and all of them have it)... 1. A priest that does not want to be a priest anymore (usually because he fell in love with some rich woman). 2. Someone with amnesia - be that acute or chronic amnesia. But usually it's more fun if the memory comes and goes rather than just being completely absent. That way you can have demon possessions as well and one woman wiping out a whole town without her realising it. 3. Most characters have at least - at the very least - 5 lives. There's no need for sadness when someone is diagnosed with some strange illness or actually dies from it... you know they will be back. Even if they were blown to smithereens in some explosion at sea. 4. A villain. But it's important to note that the villain always has to have foreign accent. Preferably Italian. And lately 5. Platonic lesbian relationships. |
| Make a HOTCH in the POTCH... | |
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| cagey | Sep 10 2009, 02:53 PM Post #1004 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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As we speak of the elements of a soap opera, ekny, you have got to let go of this notion that Otalia not communicating is something singular to them. They are talking to/with each other considerably more than most of the other couples are at this point. Among the scenes you didn't see yesterday was a spectacular outburst by Beth, enraged at Lillian for her not betraying Philip's medical confidence and telling Beth that Philip was dying. Because, if Beth had *known* she wouldn't have treated Philip like detritus for the last few months. That's how to behave when you are part of a super couple. Personally, I think smugness becomes Natalia. The casual dismissal of Frank's name suggestion, the casual dismissal of Frank in general now that Olivia is back on board, is awfully satisfying. However, as we move into today's encounter with Emma, I am more than ready to bow to your soap operatic skills and believe that Emma is going to name the baby. I figure, as long as they remain the comic relief nothing truly stupid can happen to them, and this is for the good.
Yes I believe this soap has had most of those at one point. Josh became a man of god at one point but he prefers to spend his days now fantasizing about Olivia and Natalia; all the children of Springfield were once kidnapped by a crazed woman; Philip has been dead at least once, Jeffrey is a reincarnation and we do have a villain with a foreign accent - British, or technically the balmy island accents of San Cristobel. What one needs to keep in mind is that, miraculous heart transplant aside, this platonic lesbian love story is the most realistic storyline on the whole soap. Not only within the confines of a soap sensibility, but as abzug well describes, because it captured so many of the nuances these two women becoming aware of just how much they mean to each other. |
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| solitasolano | Sep 10 2009, 03:12 PM Post #1005 |
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Morning YT inspired by that was then this is now. The not quite yet whipped Olivia. Olivia doesn't like the cows. (don't go beyond 1:20 for your mental health) |
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8:45 AM Jul 11