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Otalia - Guiding Light
Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,221 Views)
abzug
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In love with a prisoner
solitasolano from Spoiler thread
 
Today's clip.
One minute twelve second scene about Josh with Otalia in it.

Ok, I can be a cynic.  :rolleyes:

God, must I always be the cheery one around here? I don't mind that they were only in one scene. It was a sweet one (walking, holding hands, barefoot on the beach), and it was also an attempt, I think, to address the male fantasy issue, by having Josh (the one who joked most about fantasizing about Olivia and Natalia together) to say their happiness is what it's about, not his fantasy. Does it fully resolve this very problematic issue? No, of course not--it's too ingrained in our culture these days. But I am glad they had this moment; it's better than not having it.

Otherwise not much to say about today's ep, but I am happy to see Liv and Nat so couply; even if we're not getting the romantic/sexy stuff, they're definitely not acting like friends in any way.
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ekny
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Yeah, sweetie... you DO have to be the cheerful one. Cause I did my damndest to let your last post stand because it was just so lovely & mellow & I thought, hell, let that be the last word on the subject.

...

Nothing could compensate for today's episode. Not even Liv's dress. Which... is saying something.
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abzug
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But why? What was so wrong with today's episode? They weren't central, so what? There have been many episodes in which they haven't appeared at all, or have appeared as minor characters. That's how soaps work. So are we judging the episode for
1. The lack of Otalia screen time?
2. The quality of the Otalia moments?
3. The overall storyline and plot?
Personally I'm only looking at the episode via door #2, and so I think it was fine. Their relationship was a huge part of yesterday's episode. It wouldn't make sense for it to also be a huge part of today's episode. I'd rather have them be participants in the community, even as small players, than not be present at all. I can't speak to door #3 because I don't watch the rest of the show.

One other thought, re: yesterday's episode. When I watched it on tv last night, I found myself especially tickled by the tiny background moment where Doris and Amanda went over to Olivia and Natalia and the four of them were chatting together. It was just half a second, if that, but I felt like "Oh! There's a lesbian community in Springfield!" Like, Nat and Liv would have this other lesbian couple they'd be friends with. It put a little smile in my heart. Other than on The L Word, I haven't seen that on tv EVER, and that includes Bad Girls.
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ekny
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Although it was seriously defective as any kind of lesbian representation, QAF's Mel & Lindsay did, I believe, have other lesbian friends. Who would occasionally appear in the show, even. So... have to give the boys some credit. Crappy a couple as they were in every other way. (Basically, I always viewed M&L as gay men in drag. The guys who produced that show understood only 1 subculture: their own. They had no idea how to represent straights *or* lesbians.)
***

Are we supposed to derive some significance from the fact that Nat is wearing the sartorial equivalent of an old laundry-sheet whereas Liv is dressed to the nines and clearly happy? If so I cannot fathom what, other than they haven't had time to go shopping yet. Even this, see... meaningless.

There was nothing wrong with today's episode. (Aside from the kiss-off, the lack of any significant anything going on in the O/N storyline... whatever. The usual. It's fine.) Seriously: everything you say is right. So... it's Nice they're Integrated into the community. Really. But that's the moment their story IS over. It is worse than boring. Which is the kiss of death for any story, as Cagey keeps telling us--no conflict. Oops. Sorry. Used the K-word again.

The show's got nothing left to say. Doesn't stop me from dreading something even more sickening than the Christmas Message Moment--which is the first thing I ever saw, when I started watching this. I could do without more speechifying at The End, but these people cannot resist that impulse, it would seem.

Nat might be the most fertile mommy in Candyland, but as a desexed couple, they've been rendered sterile. They've become as boring as their background. They're about ready to molt they're so dull. So I guess the show *has* been a rousing success. Because Olivia and Natalia are now our neighbors: they're known, and they are made safe. Not scary. Message received.
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abzug
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ekny
Sep 15 2009, 01:01 PM
Although it was seriously defective (gentle understatement), QAF's Mel & Lindsay did, I believe, have other lesbian friends. Who would periodically show up in the show, even. So--have to give the boys some credit. Crappy a couple as they were in every other way.

But that example falls into the same category as The L Word: on a pay-cable channel, depicting an all-gay ghetto world. I'm talking about gay characters on shows with mixed casts, which is basically every gay character ever on tv other than those on TLW and QAF.
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ekny
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Sorry I got interrupted for like an hour an a half. gotta bounce, back later --e
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solitasolano
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abzug
 
must I always be the cheery one around here?

Nah, I love me some Olivia and Natalia hand in hand take care of my friend on the beach.
Me happy.


Working, will read more latter.
:)
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abzug
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ekny
 
So... it's Nice they're Integrated into the community. Really. But that's the moment their story IS over. It is worse than boring. Which is the kiss of death for any story, as Cagey keeps telling us--no conflict. Oops. Sorry. Used the K-word again.

Come on now! It's not like the other stories are ongoing! The show is ending. They're wrapping up every storyline. So it's like you're upset because their story is over and now it's boring. So is every other character's story. They are trying to give all the characters happy endings, and they couldn't do that all in the last 37 minutes of the final episode on September 18. So ours got wrapped up yesterday. Who cares?

ekny
 
Nat might be the most fertile mommy in Candyland, but as a desexed couple, they've been rendered sterile. They've become as boring as their background. They're about ready to molt they're so dull. So I guess the show *has* been a rousing success. Because Olivia and Natalia are now our neighbors: they're known, and they are made safe. Not scary. Message received.

So it's not the most radical, political conclusion ever. But I don't mind that. In the end, the fear was their own internal fear, of what others would think of them, of what they'd think of themselves, about who they are. I actually think that's relatively realistic, in terms of where our culture is at--many people are ok with gays as their neighbors and friends, but it's still hard for gay people themselves to come to terms with it. Point being, they were never really scary to anyone, other than Alan and Rafe. They just thought they were.
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cagey
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abzug
Sep 15 2009, 06:47 PM


ekny
 
Nat might be the most fertile mommy in Candyland, but as a desexed couple, they've been rendered sterile. They've become as boring as their background. They're about ready to molt they're so dull. So I guess the show *has* been a rousing success. Because Olivia and Natalia are now our neighbors: they're known, and they are made safe. Not scary. Message received.

So it's not the most radical, political conclusion ever. But I don't mind that. In the end, the fear was their own internal fear, of what others would think of them, of what they'd think of themselves, about who they are. I actually think that's relatively realistic, in terms of where our culture is at--many people are ok with gays as their neighbors and friends, but it's still hard for gay people themselves to come to terms with it. Point being, they were never really scary to anyone, other than Alan and Rafe. They just thought they were.

me - back in June
 
The official positive spin on this is that the characters are all seeking Real Love. If Otalia does actually come out as a same sex, positive, happy couple focussed on the well being of their children, it will be a refreshing if not revolutionary end for the ending of the GL story.


I agree abzug that all the stories are winding up and couples are getting coupled up rapidly. And I agree ekny that this is extremely tedious. It's been going on since Bill and Lizzie's wedding and frankly, if you haven't been in bed with these characters for the last 20 years, it's just plain boring. But, whatcha gonna do?

I like your comment abzug about them never really being scary to anyone - and I would say even to Alan and Rafe. Alan is all about the power struggle, so he'd be wondering how to use it to his advantage. Rafe wasn't afraid of them, he was angry with with. Who was scared, as they said to each other repeatedly, were the two of them. Not a bad message about the importance of coming out as done within the soap universe.

Having not yet seen the show or the clip, I wouldn't venture an opinion of the Otalia scene-ette, but since they are killing off Alan today, I would suspect that the theme of today's show has more to do with making every precious moment count.
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ekny
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The fact you guys seem to agree we can/should read this story as Really all about their *internalized* fear/homophobia is just about the worst thing this storyline has done in the name of these characters, if you ask me.
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abzug
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ekny
Sep 15 2009, 04:57 PM
The fact you guys seem to agree we can/should read this story as Really all about their *internalized* fear/homophobia is just about the worst thing this storyline has done in the name of these characters, if you ask me.

Why? I don't see anything shameful in showing how difficult it is to overcome internalized homophobia. I don't think it makes the characters seem weak or pathetic in any way. And in fact it feels a lot more psychologically authentic to me than many of the other storylines other GL characters have been dealt.
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cagey
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ekny
Sep 15 2009, 08:57 PM
The fact you guys seem to agree we can/should read this story as Really all about their *internalized* fear/homophobia is just about the worst thing this storyline has done in the name of these characters, if you ask me.

Oh heavens no the story is not Really About about internalized homophobia. As we've discussed, the story of their coming out has been primarily about their obsessing over what other people are going to think of them alternating with their own fears about what taking this step into a romantic relationship will mean. I wouldn't call that internalized homophobia but I think it has parallels to other stories going on in the show. As GL is closing down there is a great deal of sermonizing about the values of friends, honesty, communication, community support, faith in self, faith in others, etc etc and within that, their decision to be *together*, openly present themselves to the larger community and the subsequent easy acceptance into that community is a nice statement to make.

I realize it all becomes rather Afterschool Special - but that doesn't particularly bother me. The premise of the story from the start was that Love comes in unexpected places - not sex, not realistic lesbian relationships - just generic happy time Love.

Yes, I *know* how this supports the dominant paradigm, but so does apple pie and on occasion, a little apple pie is tasty.
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solitasolano
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Quote:
 
a great deal of sermonizing about the values of friends, honesty, communication, community support, faith in self, faith in others, etc etc


Here I was all set to say the ladies' story was about the 3 "F"s, family, friends, and another "f" word that was actually lacking in Otalia storyline. But then cagey comes along and brings me back to reality. The third "f" is faith.


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cagey
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How many times did Alan say today that he only did what any parent would do for his child? It is what parents do. As Jonathan signs custody papers so little Sarah can be held jointly with Lizzie - cause she needs her mother and her family around her. Talk about tedious - Otalia's 90 seconds were among the livelier portions of today's episode. There was Olivia's lively chest area and great implication that she and Natalia have had a few laffs over Josh's obsession with them. Laughs I will insist took place in bed last night.

Most of the endless show was taken up with either Alan repeating his mantra and otherwise preparing himself to depart this world or Josh repeating his take on things: he cares most about taking care of people and now that everyone is happy it is time for him to move on to the "Real World" for a while. I stand amazed at this observation. First, because Springfield is a magical place - it is acknowledging that Springfield is an actual Alternative Universe. Second that apparently all those attentions he's paid to Olivia of late were just *lay* pastoral counseling.

But Venezuela? Please. Even the least political amongst us must wonder a) is he a closet Chavista and going down to help with the nationalization of the oil or b ) is he planning to start the capitalist guerrilla resistance? His Real World is still not ours.

37 minutes is a long time with no plot. More of the same tomorrow. My colleague who used to watch as a child found the notion of Alan dying a "hero" to be highly offensive.

So sorry solitasolano on the 3 F's. Think of the F we will be avoiding after this week - Fidelity.
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abzug
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At least tomorrow Liv and Nat should be more central, given that it's Rafe's send off. At least I hope.

Did anyone see the video diary on CBS.com, which follows these two Young and the Restless actors who cameo-ed on today's ep of GL? There's a scene about two minutes in where Crystal demonstrates her kissing technique, and first, it's exquisite, and second, it's so criminal we never got to see Liv and Nat kiss, because holy crap it would have been absolutely smokin'. Which is probably why CBS wouldn't let them do it. It might have turned all those lonely housewives into big ole lezzies, and we couldn't have THAT, now could we?
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