| Welcome to Nikki And Helen. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,220 Views) | |
| solitasolano | Sep 16 2009, 02:53 AM Post #1081 |
![]()
|
It's official. We was robbed. |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Sep 16 2009, 03:22 AM Post #1082 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
The "pillow thing" the "soft thing" -- I'm icky now - who is he talking to? At least that explains who those two characters I have no context or information on were. Soap world. Good to be leaving.
|
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 04:36 AM Post #1083 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Link please...?? Lost my dial-up the whole freakin night. <sigh> |
![]() |
|
| cagey | Sep 16 2009, 05:15 AM Post #1084 |
|
G3 Curtain and Duvet!
|
http://www.cbs.com/daytime/guiding_light/v...&play=true&cc=2 'at should do it. Sorry to hear you have been out of touch -- this will not improve your mood.
|
![]() |
|
| abzug | Sep 16 2009, 03:47 PM Post #1085 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Oootaliaaa missed the first scene! I'm sure it's the scene where they kissed passionately and then went up to the bedroom to make love. Don't you think? Here's the rest of the episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDvdYuwYdQs&feature=sub Hard to know what to say. I guess that's the resolution of the Rafe bits. Not fully satisfactory, since they let him be such a vile twit for so long. I mean, he needed to fucking apologize to Olivia for being an asshole to her, not ask her to take care of his mom. BUT, that request of course was his way of acknowledging their relationship, so it does mean something. Just doesn't mean enough. I'm glad they showed Liv giving Nat some physical comfort. Again, it's ridiculous to look to these things and think they matter, but given what we're not getting in terms of the physical relationship between these two, I wouldn't have been entirely surprised if they didn't show Liv hugging Nat (it's been MONTHS since the last full-on hug, after all!). But instead they're being an in-love couple, without comment. That's all we can expect at this point, and maybe it's enough, given the context. I don't know. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| solitasolano | Sep 16 2009, 03:52 PM Post #1086 |
![]()
|
Ah ya beat me.
Not quite lol. The scene was them making sandwiches at FOL...no lie.
And what abzug said. I love it all. |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Sep 16 2009, 04:00 PM Post #1087 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Man oh man, we're (ok, I'm) getting excited about a finger suck. This is really pathetic. We are lame. Ugh. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 04:20 PM Post #1088 |
In love with a prisoner
|
It... did not. |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 05:25 PM Post #1089 |
In love with a prisoner
|
In case there was any question about exactly how desperate the invisible lesbian section of the audience is--you know, the one that fanatically (for better and worse) covered this storyline, got the show a shit-ton of extra attention, and was loyal WELL beyond the call of duty, many of whom will continue to support these actors throughout not only their coming venture but the remainder of their careers--you know, THAT segment? the unimportant one?--you may if you so choose download this, the opening sequence to the 9.14 show: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2NRMLUNF Why bother, you wonder? Me too. From the thread where these links appear, we find: "clip in Today's opening never aired [...] Natalia grazed Olivia's lips with her finger. It was part of the sex talk but they cut it [...]" I am so disgusted with the idea that CBS cut a finger-graze I can barely see straight. Of course given my eyesight that's kinda how it goes anyway, these days. Nevertheless: ![]() *** Having seen it, it would appear Nat touched Olivia's lips with her thumb before going into a cheek-caress. It's a fade-in shot, even so. That's right: that's how desperate. It's possible this was in the original shot but since I don't care enough to look, I'm gonna take their word that it wasn't. This level of homophobia is so cretinous and so totally--yes: insane--that there's really no addressing it. Whoever's responsible should just be marched outside and shot. Or better yet, forced to watch endless Folsome St parades until they give in and let some nice drag queen show them a good time. *** Here's the thing: someone should be held accountable for this nonsense. Since no one's speaking, there are only two possibilities. Well, one, actually: that EW *is* indeed responsible but only secondarily: someone higher up said I always liked the Hays Code and now we're bringing it back. And EW, to save her career, said: okay. And the actors, some of who want to work for CBS in the future, said: oh well. And no one wants to badmouth anyone else. But someone's responsible, and someone should be answerable. If soaps indeed operate so close to the old studio system that their senior producers have this much control over their employees lives and careers--they should go the way of the dodo *asap*. CBS is a huge monolith. I have to assume different areas are chopped up into smaller and smaller pieces, for management purposes. So my guess is the people at the very top neither know nor care about what goes on in Department 304A behind that unmarked door in the third room from the left. Which is one of many problems with managing a corporation in this way. |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 05:45 PM Post #1090 |
In love with a prisoner
|
I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't think I was still serving a function for you guys. So you can bounce off this. //"I want her to hear it from me not someone else": the blocking for this scene was unfortunate: by separating Olivia from Nat/Rafe/Frank, and then emphasizing her choice to go tell Emma *separate* from Natalia--who goes so far as to physically rise to try to help... is this supposed to give me some warm feeling about their co-parenting status? Nat further stands for the rest of the scene where the menfolk tell Rafe he should go, go go. I can't stand getting preached at for one more second. Not a minute, not a day. Not one second. The blocking continues to suck: O. comes back with Emma, she's in the Emma shots but N's not in the Rafe shots because this is All About Rafe. And the new generation stepping up to fill the shoes of the evil old gen. No doubt Cagey will explain when I log on. Assuming I can. So... Rafe... pats Nat's *arm* to say goodbye? Did they have some tear-stained scene earlier? Wtf? Ah. MORE goodbyes. Oh god I'm so bored I catch myself complained ALOUD, alone in my office. So sad. (Oh look, she commented, parenthetically. Olivia and Natalia are hugging. What's it been since, JUNE? Pffft. Am I supposed to be, like, sexually excited about hurt/comfort? I am not. More perversion.) Saw the video diary. Left me cold. Kold, dude. Seeing an actor involved in a story kiss another actor in the same story is one thing. Seeing a heterosexual female actor kiss some heterosexual (or not--I could care) male actor I've never laid eyes on, outside the context of *any* storyline, for purposes of display only, does FA for me. I'd as soon watch cane toads getting squashed in that charming documentary about the infestation of Australia. Which was a lot more fun than this. You know what? I'm not even enjoying complaining about this any more. ------- Regarding Otalia's "fears". The euphemistic fears about the euphemistic, theoretical, invisible relationship they are now, perhaps, enjoying. On MARS. The show did *nothing* to address any of that in a positive light, once The Issue had been raised--not in terms of the characters: only the community. It just slapped on a manufactured resolution, wrapped it up in a bow, and shoved a bunch of preachy subtitles under our noses in case we missed The Message. (It also gave us a miserable ride from the time the storyline became official--with increasingly little reality to go on, to compensate. And I don't mean a damn kiss.) I'm not being difficult for its own sake or stubborn or not giving the show sufficient credit. It partially achieved its goal. Which was valid--for it--if you've just beamed down from Dead Asteroid June Cleaver and never caught up culturally since then. And I do mean dead; whether the concerns the show thinks it was addressing can BE addressed in the way the show chose to--overall, I think not. For the rest of us, however: please. So yes, I do resent being taken for a ride and dropped off at a destination not of my choosing--but that's my mistake. Knew it when I got on the bus. Their storytelling techniques, such as they are, leave everything to be desired: drama is either plot-driven or character-driven. My mistake was thinking a plot-driven story had anything to do with characters in the first place. Agatha Christie stories show more depth of characterization and nuanced understanding of human nature. Now, as a plot-driven vehicle to deliver a specific message, Guiding Light partially achieved its goals. As a character-driven vehicle for story-telling, it was a sorry mess. High-school kids write better stories. They beached these characters for the sake of their message. (That's not art: it's politics.) And the message was *not about Otalia*, or 'their' story because 'their' story was never about them, the second it 'became' "their" story. It was radioactive, from that moment on. What do we do with things that are radioactive and have a long half-life? We bury them. No, the message was to render the cute lil pink bunnies safe to the neighbors: it was to make sure the neighbors weren't scared. And, again: I'm sure it's a good work. But it's not and never will be my neighborhood. So bully for them. However, it gives me no reason to get excited: what, I should feel all grateful to have been made cute-n-fuzzy. Here's the thing: I don't give a jack if I scare the neighbors. Been doing it all my life. Frankly, I think it's good for them. Expands their horizons. I don't need to make friends: they can ignore me and I am just *fine* with that. Further--I'll be goddamned if I'm going to apologize for making them uncomfortable, if that's what I do. I've never humored fools. I see no reason to start now. This show caters to the lowest common denominator of its perceived target audience. To do so, it reinforced far more stereotypes than it broke. So I ask you, once again: what, exactly, should I be cheering about, here? The serious lunatics--the people still running a spoiler-blog who were in part responsible for some of the more offensive Fratalia spoilers from late spring on: these people actually are still able to claim that Otalia are BFF who have just retired from the playing field. Their reality is so skewed they can do that: and nothing in this show that they have seen in fact contradicts or challenges that view. So how is that a success? |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Sep 16 2009, 05:45 PM Post #1091 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
Downloading now. But here's what doesn't make sense: why was this lip-graze allowed in the opening but not in the episode? If it's that radioactive, it shouldn't have made it to the credits either. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 05:51 PM Post #1092 |
In love with a prisoner
|
It's not a kiss. It's just a thumb rubbing up against Olivia's lower lip, and my guess in any other show it would be just as if not more likely it was cut for time. But since we're talking about a fraction of a second--really, less than 1 full second--it's pretty hard to imagine any show being quite that pressed for time. Especially this one which squanders it so profligately. |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Sep 16 2009, 06:04 PM Post #1093 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
I rewatched the scenes from the original episode, and that camera angle simply doesn't appear in the episode at all. And given that a hand kiss (which is different from a lip graze how?) came in the same-ish moment in the episode, I'm hard-pressed to see a conspiracy here. I think they just used a different camera angle, and it didn't include this lip graze. I agree with everything else about the censorship in this story, I just don't think this is an example of it.
OK, not to defend the show or how they've portrayed lesbian sexuality and relationships, but I don't think the serious lunatics have a leg to stand on with this interpretation. The text said time and time again that Liv and Nat were "a couple" that they are more than friends. They were shown demonstrating romantic couple-level PDA in all of this week's episodes (holding hands, arms around eachother). Have to run to a conference call, so sorry for not writing more about this. |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
| ekny | Sep 16 2009, 06:33 PM Post #1094 |
In love with a prisoner
|
Abzug, agreed to both. Link courtesy Cagey:http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/soaps/guidi...-deas-2371.html Mr Curmudgeon has the virtue of cranks everywhere: he is refreshingly plain-spoken: "If the soaps all go off the air, some smart person is going to figure out the right way to do it and bring ’em back. But they’ll have to rethink the form and make it bolder. I mean, we in America still haven’t gotten over our sex hang-ups! The lesbians on our show can’t kiss? What’s wrong with us? There’s a greater chance that GL would have brought in a donkey for Buzz to have sex with. Come to think of it, maybe it would have saved my career." and in response to "Were you surprised to end your GL run by getting married?" "I think [executive producer] Ellen Wheeler is out of her f---ing mind to give Buzz another wedding. But I adore working with Tina Sloan [Buzz’s new wife Lillian]. [...]" EJB was actually the person who apparently mentioned in some interview about the thumb-edit. And people looked for that, I guess, or that shot, anyway, & didn't see it. That's all the backstory there I gots. |
![]() |
|
| abzug | Sep 16 2009, 06:35 PM Post #1095 |
|
In love with a prisoner
|
I was extremely bothered by this too, every single thing you pointed out. It made me uncomfortable and agitated, because of the lack of connection between Liv and Nat when so many hugely emotional things were happening. BUT, the last moment of the scene Liv waited for Nat, and they held hands and walked out together. Which didn't make up for the screwed up staging of the rest of it, but at least that end moment felt right to me. I think soaps have always had a problem staging crowd scenes. They don't have time to rehearse and coordinate, and so it leads to crappy solutions to logistical problems. Like, Lillian needed to be near the bar to answer the phone. Olivia needed to be near Lillian (and thus near the bar) to take the phone handoff. Had this been some genre (prime time tv, theater) where there are directors and time to rehearse, they would have come up with an elegant solution which enabled Lillian to answer the phone, hand it off to Olivia, AND have Olivia and Nat in close physical (and thus, emotional) proximity. I'm not excusing it, but I'm just categorizing it under "shortcomings of the genre which have adversely impacted the story" as opposed to "evil decisions on the part of the network/producers/writers which have adversely impacted the story." |
Visit the Bad Girls Annex!
| |
![]() |
|
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." Learn More · Sign-up Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The Comfy Sofa · Next Topic » |








So you can bounce off this. //
8:45 AM Jul 11