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| Otalia - Guiding Light | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2009, 06:54 PM (21,285 Views) | |
| ekny | Jun 17 2009, 11:32 PM Post #106 |
In love with a prisoner
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Yeah, I belatedly figured out that's why no one was responding. Well, it's quiet on my planet. Kinda peaceful. For now.Had some thoughts about Doris which should be safe. Was talking w/someone who basically viewed Doris & Olivia as friends, which I definitely do not. Olivia has no reason to trust Doris in her public dealings, Doris is uncentered & a loose cannon specifically because her personal life & its politics are so screwed up in relation to her job and *its* politics. And Olivia's no dummy. So however kind Doris has been in private, there's like, 2 Dorises. And because Doris has her nose in Olivia's shit--every time she gets a chance, she makes trouble. Telling Frank (useful plot device though it was) was really none of her business--and not her place to say. Her coming over to poke at Natalia's baking: I have to believe that would seriously chap Olivia's ass, if she knows about it. The other thing is--ok, Olivia doesn't have any friends, right, but these two: it's not like they got out shopping or even have lunch together. They do not break bread. It's not that kind of thing. The dividing line between this one really important place where they have something in common, emotionally, & get each other & Olivia is so desperate she HAS to trust Doris and Doris is so unhappy she HAS to help Olivia--that's a big deal but it's all in one cookie jar, or something. And everything else is Doris making trouble. So that translates to me as something more like: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's situational, & strategic, in a way. It could be the beginning of a friendship, for sure. Doris has given her nothing but the truth as Doris sees it, when discussing Olivia's feelings for Natalia with her. But beyond that--Doris has yet to prove herself. Thing is... Doris knows who Olivia *is*, in public or private. She's the same person. She may still be screwed up in some ways, but she's Olivia. Olivia can't have that same sense with Doris, because that's *not* who Doris is. Yet. I think Doris is trying to help Olivia in a way she can't help herself, if you want to be generous about it (and I'm perfectly willing to be). But she's as self-destructive as Olivia used to be: gossiping, mixing it up in other people's shit, lying about her own. So it's like a mirror image kinda thing, in a way. Olivia's brand new at this, but she's doing it right. Doris is an old hand at this, but she can't seem to help doing it wrong. (For herself.) |
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| cagey | Jun 18 2009, 02:48 AM Post #107 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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hey - some of us were *working* out here on the left coast. ![]() I am confident I can respond to ek's speculation about the BBBQ without using my secret files.
Long time viewers may be able to concur, but what I understand is - the BBQ is the soap plottage event of the season. So yes, we can expect something.
I would not go there. I think Frank has played himself out and I do believe his job is to make Rafe understand about Otalia. I also think Rafe, hot headed little snot that he is, would be likely to head towards violence if he had that big a problem with Olivia - and that I do not see coming at all.
Now this I can get behind, and it leads me to a question we can all speculate about: is Natalia's leaving SAD because she is fighting with Olivia or is it SAD because of some other circumstance. I say this with absolute confidence that each and everyone of us does not expect a happy (Natalia Rivera! You just won the lottery, come on back to Chicago to collect your winnings!) reason for her departure. If I am incorrect about this, then let's not go there. I am looking forward to each member of Springfield reacting to the news. The head smacking of all the boys who had hit on her; the smugness of Doris; the I knew it all along of Dinah - if she is still around, since she looks like she's leaving town shortly with Jeffrey.
Well there's a problem. I am convinced that whatever takes Natalia away will be Serious and Ponderous but it cannot be so Devastating to Olivia that she is unable to participate in whatever it is she will be participating in, story wise, over the next few weeks. And I don't think Olivia can merrily skip along and join up with the murder travesty, or join AA or take over Spaulding now that Bizzie have resigned if she is seriously pining for or thinking the worst case scenario regarding Natalia. So they really can't have those interactions with Springfield at large without Nat coming back. |
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| cagey | Jun 18 2009, 03:05 AM Post #108 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Why yes, I agree with you - there is no established reason for Olivia to be confiding with Doris. One of the kickass things about the soap breakneck pace of this story in the last few months is that Doris might be redeemed. I don't know any of the back story, and maybe some long time viewers could explain how Doris ended up marrying Alan, except that marrying Alan seems to be a requirement for women living in Springfield. But why she is shipping the Otalia is just fascinating to me.
I agree with that generally and I was there for a while. Now I am beginning to think that Otalia is Doris' epiphany - she can see what the costs of the closet are, what not being honest to your children are. Some interesting structural things might be happening as we watch this story wind down. Under ordinary soap circumstances, having all this secret info on Olivia might have played into Doris' hand because it would be another year or so until Olivia and Natalia really got together. But now, there's hardly time for Doris to muck up the Coopers or whoever she would be a plot device for.
I would so enjoy Doris becoming a cautionary lesson in Not Coming Out - and in June. Who knew? I want to have an old style GL radio show sermon here and just hope that in some way, this story does play out as all about Love and Acceptance. (Even if I keep hearing that damn theme song as "Everybody gets low/Everybody get high") |
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| abzug | Jun 18 2009, 03:18 AM Post #109 |
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In love with a prisoner
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This would explain (in part) why Doris is so hard on Natalia, since she perceives Natalia as being more closeted, less accepting of her same-sex desires, etc. Doris may (consciously or unconsciously) see Natalia as the fun house mirror version of herself, and she doesn't like what she sees. Olivia, on the other hand, is the idealized version of the self that she could be, in touch with her own desires, willing to act on them in a full and complete way. And that is something Doris likes to be around. I also think maybe Doris just likes a good old fashioned lesbian love story, you know? She's not a romantic, that's for sure, but what lesbian doesn't want more lesbians in the world, even if they're in a couple? So she's going to help them if she can (and if it doesn't cost her anything). |
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| ekny | Jun 18 2009, 03:27 AM Post #110 |
In love with a prisoner
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Right. Just a quicky to say I agree w/almost all your comments, really, & this latter was (meant to be) implied by my post but ta for clarifying! ![]()
Oh absolutely. 100%. I turn off the Theme Toone, myself. There are limits, dammit. eta: bloody hell, we're all posting at the same times of day, we keep overlapping! Hi Abzug: yes re N/O being two halves of the Doris.
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| cagey | Jun 18 2009, 03:31 AM Post #111 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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If you think Doris has been the only lesbian in Springfield until now it makes sense! But yes I agree that she is recruiting, in the best sense, and that is why she is helping Olivia. One just can't help oneself.
What, you think Doris is queer, but hasn't actually acted on her desires? I could see that - at least in the Springfield context. But didn't Ashlee say something about her mom going out of town on conventions and all? I think Doris has a very very sordid and sad history that would befit a closeted dyke mayor. I hope she gets to make amends before the end of the show and maybe hook up with that bartender. |
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| abzug | Jun 18 2009, 01:29 PM Post #112 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Oh, not at all! I think we're supposed to be very clear on the fact that Doris's physical needs are being met by women whenever she wants (that finger graze with the waitress in Towers was enough to confirm that to me). I meant more in terms of Natalia's unwillingness (a few weeks ago) to acknowledge her feelings for Olivia, her insistence on still calling Olivia her friend, etc. It's the closetedness, not the celibacy, which Doris sees in Natalia and doesn't like. Every conversation between the two of them since the wedding has centered around the same dynamic: Doris presuming Natalia's non-straight sexuality, and Natalia responding with some form of "I don't know what you think I am, but it's not that." |
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| marymartin | Jun 18 2009, 01:55 PM Post #113 |
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The ghost of Larkhall!
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Can I chime in yet again to this thoughtful discussion? I think Doris in her own way is just as hypocritcal as most of the citizens of Springfield. She may have accepted her sexuality but by lying about it to her daughter and the public, she is hardly out of the closet. Natalia was still processing when Doris hit her with her snark, right after the spa trip. I would be willing to bet that Natalia and Olivia come out before Doris does. |
| "Thomas is gorgeous. He's everything you would want in a man. But I want a woman." | |
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| Jeanna | Jun 18 2009, 05:35 PM Post #114 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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That's been pretty much my read.
Ah, yes..."The only gay in the village." |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| Jeanna | Jun 18 2009, 11:07 PM Post #115 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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Ah...so I guess it is official. That's CC quoted by Michael Fairman at Advocate.com. Damn. I thought they had at least a few wks. taping in August. JL comes back July 1st...and that's a few more scenes worth at best. And then that's all she wrote. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| abzug | Jun 19 2009, 01:31 AM Post #116 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Totally! I am in complete agreement with you on this. Doris has been out to herself for a long time, but she's made a decision to live in the closet, and I don't see why that would change, other than if she is inspired by Natalia and Olivia's example.
God, when you calculate it out like that, it's beyond depressing. I actually feel sick in the pit of my stomach. Five weeks of episodes post-baby? It's not enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can we get an entire episode with the two of them in bed, a la Shayne and Dinah? Doubtful. |
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| cagey | Jun 19 2009, 02:35 AM Post #117 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Dang Jeanna - I hate that 7th August thing. I was so hoping I was wrong and you were spot on in thinking it was just CC scenes winding up then. (Reference to the associated photo will not be mentioned. :)) But things are certainly moving now at a pace. For those of you who watch the whole show and not just the best bits - did you note that Dinah was passing out music boxes that "play the theme" which Lara's music box played? Would that be "Lara's Theme"? Parallels between Natalia and Olivia trying to create a public version of themselves that does not emphasize the heart, the caretaking, the job at the Beacon, the Farmhouse to enforce to the public that this was a freely made decision when they do actually present themselves as a couple vs. Jeffrey and Dinah creating all sorts of lies to create an illusion to lure Edmund? I am probably going no where with this but it did strike me. Otalia are trying to clarify their situation for the public - and maybe as a result clarify what they mean to each other - that much I am pretty solid on. I really liked the seating choice - choosing not to have the desk between them when they both confirm that they are choosing, have chosen and so they are the done deal. Thinking they feel very solid as a couple and whatever is about to happen will not threaten that. |
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| marymartin | Jun 19 2009, 03:28 AM Post #118 |
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The ghost of Larkhall!
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I've been thinking about this way too much and probably too logically, but it seems to me that some of the seemingly random things in the storyline in retrospect were there if the show got new life after CBS to allow for new story offshoots -- Doris/Ashley being one of them. I remember reading that the writers were basically doing A and B scripts -- laying things out in such a way that would make sense if the show moved or if it ended. At this point, all signs point to it ending. Now despite all the salivating by some over a rumor that TV Land is considering picking it up, I think GL is a dead soap walking. Otalia certainly is, with CC's acceptance of work on DOOL. Otalia, IMO, was the show's strongest selling point and if P&G/Telenext wouldn't even move the couple to ATWT, or CBS would not green light it, that pretty much was the nail in the coffin for me. As harsh a reality as it is to accept, GL will become a piece of history in September when it goes off the air. Right now, it appears to me, that what we are starting to see is the winding up of existing stories and closure for characters -- no longer serial style writing. WARNING --- vague spoiler reference here, so don't read if you don't want to know. I think Natalia's leaving Springfield will be tied into the other ongoing storylines and will not be voluntary. I also expect things to go into fastforward mode in some respects as they try to beat it out. Poor Jessica will probably be working just as hard post baby as she was trying to pre shoot so many scenes before she really started showing. If she does return July 1, there will be six weeks left to film in. What should be really interesting if shooting wraps August 7th, is how much of what will play out between then and the end date gets leaked. |
| "Thomas is gorgeous. He's everything you would want in a man. But I want a woman." | |
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| Jeanna | Jun 19 2009, 03:49 PM Post #119 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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Mild Spoiler Warning Which is really nothing more than Spec but don't look if you don't wanna know (yes, this means you ek.)
So, I assume you're referring back to what CC said in the podcast that Natalia has to leave town. The rumors I've heard have mentioned the word "illness" tho, but it sounds more like you're tending toward the sort of wild spec that puts her into the "Deadmund" plot somehow and leads to Liv having scenes with Shane and Dinah concerning the murder mystery. It sounds awfully far-fetched. Some even went so far as to posit the typical soap melodrama plotting that has Nat kidnapped! Why? What would she have to do with that storyline? She's the most innocent person in town in that regard. Liv told Nat and then Jeffrey (with Reva overhearing) what she saw on that day she came home from S.F. to SF early and looked out the window of the Beacon. Seemed pretty simple and straightforward ...is someone afraid she saw something else? But Rafe would certainly come around pretty fast to just praying for his mom to be alive and happy and have the life she wants if her life is suddenly endangered. Also, they made a point of showing us that Olivia has a gun and knows how to use it from practicing on the firing range. Is that going to come back into play in protecting her family? I really preferred when they kept the girls' story (and they did for a very long time) away from the melodrama of the rest of the soap. It became the one little oasis of realism. Just like Liv said yesterday, about the two of them and their relationship, that it would exist "even...without the drama." I thought that was a significant remark. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| marymartin | Jun 19 2009, 06:46 PM Post #120 |
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The ghost of Larkhall!
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Mild Spoiler Warning Which is really nothing more than Spec but don't look if you don't wanna know (yes, this means you ek.)
Yes. The kidnapping spec makes much more sense than having Natlia suddenly decide she needs to leave town to think things over about Rafe. All indications are that she has made a decision. It would totally strain credulity and be the kiss of death to Otalia for her to be pregnant now. Also, I think that would be it for any Otalia fans sticking around while Jessie is offscreen for her maternity leave. I know I would totally lose interest. It's too painful now, knowing how little time is left. As to your question about 'why' -- the easiest explanation to me is Natalia being in the wrong place at the wrong time. While on her way to the Bauer BBQ she comes face to face with not Deadmond.
I hear what you are saying, but what in the world is Olivia going to do for four to five weeks without Nat? I don't know about you but I don't want to watch her a)drink b)make bad decisions c)mope d)sulk. All indications are that they are going to come out to everyone. They have chosen to be together. I actually think the 'without the drama' remark yesterday was foreshadowing of more drama to come and Olivia being pulled into the Edmond storyline and the upcoming Phillip stuff. This is classic soap. Every time a couple says "Nothing will ever separate us" or words to that effect, the viewer know they are in for a rough patch. To me, Natalia's quitting her job helps set up the next story arc leading up to Natalia leaving. Especially when I put the spoilers together with the tweets from CC and Tina Sloan during the Bauer BBQ shoot. |
| "Thomas is gorgeous. He's everything you would want in a man. But I want a woman." | |
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Well, it's quiet on my planet. Kinda peaceful. For now.






8:46 AM Jul 11