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Venice: the thread
Topic Started: Sep 17 2009, 10:22 PM (6,363 Views)
ekny
No Avatar
In love with a prisoner
Abzug Jul 12 2009, 06:18 PM

Now that there's so much buzz (within a tiny microcosm of the world) about "Venice", Crystal Chappell's new web series, I started checking out the other lesbian-themed scripted web series which are out there. I was interested partly because I just like to see lesbian characters, and if the web is where they're at, then that's where I'll go. But I've also been curious about whether there's really any potential to tell stories at anything approaching the level of tv or even independent film.

I think I also fear that as media becomes more diffuse, there won't be any lesbian characters on network tv any longer; it'll just be the web. I mean, forget about even something like The L Word on Showtime. At best we'll have some really low-budget thing on Logo. Which is good because we'll have stories which don't need to also please a straight audience. But it's bad because we'll have stories written and acted and filmed on such a tiny budget that I think we'll find ourselves disatisfied.

Anyway, so far I've watched Anyone But Me from start to finish. It was ok. The weirdest thing for me was probably the lack of musical underscoring. Nothing composed, no pop songs, nothing. It made it feel, like, not real or something. Which may sound strange, but we're so accustomed to music underneath tv and movies that to NOT have it was very disconcerting.[...]

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Jeanna Jul 12 2009, 06:24 PM

Oh, excellent point about music, Abzug. I just sent in a few questions to the writer Kim about "Venice" and that was something I asked. It's a very important element for me.

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traveller Jul 12 2009, 09:37 PM

In ref to music for Venice. Kim was asked this question on twitter

Quote:
 
To Kim from : Cosmictiger

@KimmyT22 will there be cool music in web series? love the fact u & CC love music so much, will enhance show me thinks! Xxx


KT reply:
@Cosmictiger yeah there will be a huge music component. new artists to showcase work


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Jeanna Jul 13 2009, 10:12 AM

Ah, just as with GL. Smart.

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ekny Jul 13 2009, 05:30 PM

How do these work? I'm at home on dial-up, I could wait til tomorrow to check them out but am not clear on the technical side of things: do you have to log in/register? Pay money? What?

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Abzug Jul 13 2009, 06:03 PM

No, you don't pay. You just watch them online, maybe view an ad right beforehand, or to the side. Like watching something on YouTube. So not clear what the business model is in this industry, which is part of why everything is so low-budget.

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molsongrrrl Jul 15 2009, 05:51 PM

As per CC's tweet page:

The lovely Jessica Leccia is the newest cast member of VENICE!

She"ll be playing the role of "Ani", a photographer.

Jess is very excited about doing the series. And we're so thrilled to have her!Who could resist those beautiful brown eyes? Prob not Gina

I'll tell you more later. Can't help it about the eyes. W.as looking into them today. BTW, the rest of her isn't lost on me. LOL

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solitasolano Jul 15 2009, 06:24 PM

Oh yes. Sweet tweet.


ETA molsongrrrl, you forgot the last tweet...what a tease that woman is, CC.
"I'll tell you more later. Can't help it about the eyes. W.as looking into them today. BTW, the rest of her isn't lost on me. LOL"

LOL is right.

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abzug Jul 15 2009, 09:04 PM

Man, is Crystal Chappell a flirt or what?! She knows exactly what her lesbian fans want to hear.

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abzug Jul 16 2009, 10:29 PM

From the Otalia thread:
ekny
 
Except this: that would seem to bode well for this new CC project. I wish I thought so. Not because of any of the specifics, but because there is no business model for web series that works, financially. Yet. Without it, nothing lasts. Not Joss Whedon's 'successful' free show, not SoN--nothing anything that has yet happened on the web (far as I know--I could always be wrong again though, batting 1000 so far! )

They'll figure it out but it hasn't happened yet. So we might get half a dozen, 10 episodes of 8-10 minutes length & that's nice but I don't see how it could last. Be happy to be proved wrong. Be happier if it's quality, & interesting.


You're right about the financials of the web. I guess the idea is that you make some money back on dvd distribution? Who knows. I guess, arguably, with their little eps they could get into some GLBT film fests (either as a short film, or all as a group, feature-length), and then get picked up to be a real series, or a film or whatever. But in the end, it's probably more like a labor of love, getting to tell stories you want to tell, work with your friends, not have to deal with network bullshit. Kind of the equivalent of a bunch of actors getting together and putting on a play. If everyone works for a share of the (likely non-existent) profits, then it's all fun and fair, and costs are low, and it can be done on the side, while everyone does their real jobs to make money.

The funny thing is, I watch more commercials when watching tv shows online (b/c I can't skip them) than I do at home. So why aren't ad rates higher, given that the advertiser KNOWS who has watched the ad, which is something they can never know on tv. In the end, it's tv's broadcast networks who have built their business model on a house of cards, which is about to tumble down since it's based on the Nielsen ratings which are complete bullshit. Instead, we'll be forced to watch more ads online, or pay small fees to watch something (I'd pay a few bucks for a subscription to Venice, or really any of these web series, as long as I get to watch the first ep for free to see if it's worth it).

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ekny Jul 16 2009, 10:39 PM

Totally agree abt all, esp the house of cards & Nielsen which is so out of date (and has been for years) it's not funny. And yeah, it probably is like doing a small community play/theater-type thing, or something where it's basically because they want to. Yes also to the ads: ironic, isn't it? Esp for me: I don't have cable, so I normally literally see none. N o n e.

It's interesting, cause when I think about what I've paid money for, tv-wise, in the past years--it's ALL been web-related stuff! Part because I like to support underdogs, in part because a few of the series or... whatever they are, Flash-based cartoons--I've seen in the past few years offered that opportunity so I took it, assuming they wouldn't be around for long. [...] I feel just fine about spending my money supporting indie art [...]. I'd certainly pay a few bucks if I had to to see this kind of show, it goes without saying. :) [...]

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abzug Jul 17 2009, 11:06 AM

Interview with the writer/director/star of "Far Out" (the new UK lesbian web series) which talks about a lot of the financial/production/network issues we've been discussing here and on the Otalia thread.

What's fascinating is it has taken them 4 years to get "Far Out" made, while it sounds like "Venice" is going to happen much more quickly. I imagine coming from the soap world, where scripts are written and filmed so fast, it's a piece of cake to put these kind of little webisodes together on a shoestring in no time. I wonder if the quality will be really different?

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solitasolano Jul 17 2009, 07:42 PM

[...] re the proposed CC Venice web series...if the postcard on the website is an indication, one of the characters lives along the canals in Venice. Twenty years ago the canals were in total ruin and disrepair. The houses were marginal...Since then the small area has been revitalized and those old tiny shacks now go for over a $1mill.

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Jeanna Jul 17 2009, 09:56 PM

I think the web series that any other soap folks would be taking into account these days would be the one created, written, produced, directed by Eden Riegel's hubby Andrew. "Imaginary Bitches." Which not only stars the actress who played the first major lesbian character in daytime tv, but also co-starred her gf and bff from AMC, Liz Hendrickson (currently on Y&R) and the other roles were filled by all of their out of work soap actor friends. It won a "Webby" award (whatever that is) and was nominated in a weird new category for an Emmy and has millions of hits on You Tube and is, I believe, in talks or in actual production for becoming a real tv series (perhaps to be filmed in Canada.) [...]

...this is the model that other soapers are probably going to be looking at and the cast was composed entirely of fellow soap actor friends. Oh, there was one definite lesbian thing about it---it's edited by Eden's Oscar nominated film editor sister, who is gay. <G>

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cagey Jul 18 2009, 09:11 PM

[...] So are we at one of those nifty little moments when lesbians to decide to take control of the means of production and create their own content? Like back in the day of women's recording companies, concert producers, record and book distributors, publishers, bookstores and the occasional theatrical length film.

Or are lesbians taking advantage of this technology cusp we currently find ourselves in - where corporate constructed entertainment is eroding and everyone is out there trying to figure out how to make money with the new delivery system of the web.

Or is lesbian content just fun and edgy and courant - or even trifling - and therefore befitting a experimental format.

abzug
 
Or is everyone's hope in an endeavor like this that they will be picked up for tv? That's so weird, isn't it, for lesbian-themed series, given that the freedom from network conservativism seems to be a huge part of the appeal of working online.


Picked up as a package for tv, or picked up as actors/writers/directors, etc? What I'm not feeling so far in the watching is that any of these things are *going* anywhere as stories. Also, who are the lesbians on these shows? Where are they - in front or behind the camera. [...]

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abzug Jul 18 2009, 10:26 PM

cagey[/b
 
So are we at one of those nifty little moments when lesbians to decide to take control of the means of production and create their own content? Like back in the day of women's recording companies, concert producers, record and book distributors, publishers, bookstores and the occasional theatrical length film.

I think this is the most optimistic view of what's going on, although I'm torn, of course, about the idea that our only option is to control the means of production in this way (like with women's bookstores, publishing houses etc), because then whatever is created (film, web series, books) are never consumed outside the ghetto.

cagey
 
What I'm not feeling so far in the watching is that any of these things are *going* anywhere as stories.

Right. I mean, at best you've got a single series, or maybe two. It would be cool to think that Crystal and Jessica et al could just make these little webisodes while they continue to have their day jobs as actors, for years and years and years. But it's also hard to imagine that they'd continue to be interested in writing and playing the characters over the long term, particularly if it's a huge effort to produce and film the show. [...]

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marymartin Jul 19 2009, 10:53 AM

You know, until the powers that be at the networks aren't primarily old white boys or women who are trying to compete with them on their terms, I think that web series offer the most creative control. I see it as a lot like indie films -- once they become commercially successful (IF that happens) things might change in other areas as well.

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solitasolano Aug 2 2009, 01:37 PM

[...] Wonder what the product placement/brand for Venice with be?

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abzug Aug 9 2009, 10:28 PM

[re Imaginary Bitches] [...] Sharp, professional, well-written, well-acted. The pacing is excellent in most episodes. And I don't feel like I see the limited budget all over the place, the way I do with other web series. So I guess here's hoping Crystal Chappell can do as well as Eden Riegel and her husband have done.

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solitasolano Aug 11 2009, 04:41 PM

[...] These girls don't waste anytime. Someone in marketing an PR is doing their job well.

GL filming wrapped today....vencietheseries.com has a second page finally, contests and all, and a venicetherseries youtube channel appeared today...just like that...

http://www.venicetheseries.com/

http://www.youtube.com/venicetheseries

More impressively, the word of the day is 'titilating". You know, "pleasantly stimulating or exciting" silly.gif

solitasolano Aug 11 2009, 04:41 PM

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abzug Aug 11 2009, 05:29 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with their entrepreneurial spirit, actually. They are channelling the energy and interest of the masses quite effectively, from what I can tell. Whether that will ultimately make the series successful beyond their fanbase, I can't tell, but it seems to me they are doing everything right, given the no-budget nature of web productions. [...]

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abzug Aug 24 2009, 03:52 PM

In case people haven't heard, it's confirmed that Crystal Chappell will be playing Gina in Venice.
http://tvguide.sympatico.msn.ca/Soaps/Nels...oapgeist_NB.htm

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solitasolano Aug 24 2009, 06:20 PM

Just heard now. Didn't notice your post before.
Just what I need, more Crystal crack. he he.

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ekny Aug 25 2009, 04:31 PM

Your neighborhood curmudgeon has reservations about Venice. When she hears "there will be a kiss within 30 seconds", the kind, generous, fuzzy part of her (it's well-hidden) thinks Ooh, that's nice of CC, she knows her poor fans have waited quite a while. The rest of her thinks: as a business-move, this is savvy, but not promising.

[...] There is no possibility of having any emotional connection to an entirely new set of characters inside 30 seconds, 2 minutes, or 30 minutes. A kiss without an emotional connection is... meaningless. So this doesn't bode well, imo. I don't need to be catered to. I just want some decent storytelling and the actors to carry it.

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Jeanna Aug 25 2009, 07:55 PM

I know there's no pleasing any of us some of the time, but let's just wait till we see it...

...otay?

ges_whistle.gif

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cagey Aug 25 2009, 11:36 PM

Has this been mentioned before: the scariest part about Venice is that video on the website where CC explains in several iterations that the story is about Families?

It will certainly be a great audition place for all these unemployed GL actors. I wish them well. How do they get away with not paying the actors (and who knows about the behind camera people)?

Given my apparent gambling addiction when it comes to soap opera outcomes (and my returns on this are complete evidence that I am a classic addict), anyone care to wager on how many eps of Venice there will be?

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solitasolano Aug 26 2009, 01:09 AM

cagey
 
How do they get away with not paying the actors (and who knows about the behind camera people)?

Ha, and you wondered what all the hoopla about the writer's strike and the SAG strike was all about? Can we say New Media....the union contracts didn't extend to new media before last year and mostly pertains to contract projects that then move onto the web in some way....Independent production is just that whether traditional media or new media...SAG contract probably (not my union so disclaimer, I really don't have a clue) exempts project below a certain budget and maybe also the length makes a difference...under 20 mins is probably exempt...

In a web series I'd be looking for at minimum competent acting, not to much to ask, and decent writing would certainly be a plus.

I wager my Otalia bucks and say 9 episodes. Do I have a taker?

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ekny Aug 26 2009, 01:13 AM

Does anyone know how long these will be? They're usually pretty short, no?

I'm going 10-12 if they're under 15 minutes; 6-8 if 20 minutes+.

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cagey Aug 27 2009, 10:47 AM

I'll put my marker on 15 episodes, each one less than 20 minutes. That's based on 3Way having a dozen episodes, each an impressive 25+ minutes long but much of that filler. I'd like to think we are moving forward with the model here. :)

Speaking of which - this article from November 2008 is reflective, perhaps, of the where, how and why of Venice:

Quinlan interview
http://www.examiner.com/x-443-Chicago-Gay-...e-Quinlan-draft

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solitasolano Aug 30 2009, 11:20 AM

Exerpts about Venice-the Series from CC's TV Guide Magazine interview, August 28th.

Now let’s talk Venice! Give us some scoopage! You’ll be shooting on location at Venice Beach, California, yet every soap star you’ve cast so far is on the east coast. How are you going to manage this?
We’re trying to get sponsorship. I’m working with NBC and they’ve been great. But it doesn’t cost much to do this project and all the actors are working for free. We’re getting rooms at the Hyatt for free. People are donating their time. We’re trying to get an airline deal. We’ll be able to shoot the series really fast—God knows I’m used to that! We can probably do the whole thing in two weeks. We start shooting in October and will launch on the web late October or November.

What’s the plot?
It’s a soap opera about family dynamics that centers on a community of people in Venice. Gina [Chappell’s role] is the lead. She’s an out lesbian and an interior designer who specializes in hotels. She’s trying to find her way through life and find love, which isn’t easy because she’s terrible at relationships and has lots of issues. Jordan Clarke [GL’s Billy] plays her father, who is a retired colonel. Danny Cosgrove [GL’s Bill] is her younger brother. The colonel is very disapproving of his children. Then there’s a whole other family with a mother who is into the metaphysical and opens a crystal shop. That’s the role Hillary Smith [One Life to Live’s Nora] is doing.

You’ve already made it known that Venice will kick off with a Chappell-Leccia kiss. That’s all we get?
Jessie is going to play Annie, Gina’s ex. It’s not that they don’t share intimacy but they’re not together anymore and they are very different women.

Hotel designer, ex's. LOL. Nothing like art imitating art, plus they're going to shoot the whole thing in 2 weeks???!!! Alrightie then. [photo]

More Venice related visuals from writer/producer Kim Turrisi here (not to worry, nothing otalia spoil worthy).
http://twitpic.com/fswpd

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abzug Sep 11 2009, 01:09 PM

A new article about Venice from AfterEllen:
http://www.afterellen.com/people/2009/9/crystal-chappell [...]

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solitasolano Sep 13 2009, 09:36 PM

Nice interview with CC. There were more than several responses I hadn't read before in other interviews. It's the first time I read that it would be great to see the show on FX some cable channel, which I sort of suspected was a dream goal (but doesn't that get them back into the corporate control situation??? so short sighted) along with stating efforts to definitely go for sponsorship, endorsements, and/or subscription viewing. Hadn't read anywhere the length and number of episodes..5 seasons in a year, wow that's a a lot. From CC's numbers it looks like each season will be 1 1/2 to 2 hours of material.
Liked the question about favorite scenes to do. Wedding/confession arch. But that ambush kiss makes me sort of crazy, one of the more cartoon like bits in all the whole story line.
And LOL to the short response to her response to the inquiry that as evidenced by her many unsatisfactory relationships with men, that Olivia might have been lesbian all along. Guess she doesn't totally get it. LOL. [...]

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abzug Sep 14 2009, 08:13 AM

solitasolano
 
It's the first time I read that it would be great to see the show on FX some cable channel, which I sort of suspected was a dream goal (but doesn't that get them back into the corporate control situation??? so short sighted)

I know, isn't that weird? It's like, out of one side of her mouth she's talking about how great it is to have such freedom, and out of the other side of her mouth she's talking about showing the big corporations that there are viewers to be found and money to be made in lesbian characters and relationships, so that they'll want to get on board. In which case say sayonara to all that freedom. It's the age-old question of whether you can change things from outside the system or within it. She's going outside to hopefully get back in, and either she thinks she will have proven her point (about the portrayal of lesbians) so thoroughly that the corporate influence won't undermine the vision, or she doesn't care that she might have to compromise at least somewhat, as long as she's created a property that's commercially viable.

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abzug Sep 14 2009, 09:49 PM

The most informative article about Venice that we've seen so far. I'm only part way through, but I've already learned a lot.
http://mindschmootz.net/2009/09/the-schmootz-on-venice/

ETA: Annoyingly I can't copy and paste from the article, but the section at the end where Hope talks about showing a world where gay people and straight people mix and interact--that's what I'm most interested in, and I'm glad that's how they're talking about the show.

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cagey Sep 15 2009, 04:14 PM

abzug
 
[re: mindschmootz article mention of CC interview] Never knew about the CC interview until it was mentioned in the Kim/Hope interview. And I don't have time to look. :( But do post it here if you find it. (This, btw, is why I hate blogs, because their chronological logic makes it so difficult to FIND anything!)

I didn't get the impression she'd published the interview yet, just did it. Did run across this, which is supposed to be happening tomorrow:

On Wednesday, Sept. 16 the story on Crystal/Venice including the interview with Hope Royaltey will air on CNN International at 4:40 ET. Connect the World host Becky Anderson will then interview Crystal live followed by Crystal answering some of the viewer questions live. The complete segment will be posted on CNN.com/Connect on Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/CNNI/Programs/connect.the.world/

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abzugSep 16 2009, 05:54 PM

If anyone wants to see the 10 minute segment Hope and Crystal did on CNN International today, here is a link to some pretty crap version of it (but damn, they got it up FAST!):
http://www.youtube.com/user/lizard42028

I can't believe the press they're getting. Seriously, whatever our various opinions of Crystal Chappell, the woman seems to be a marketing/self-promotional genius. If the writing on this thing is good, then I'm thrilled, because her ability to generate interest/views/revenue will be what keeps it running for longer than a handful of episodes.

And plus, I think what it comes down to is that she's a really sexy actress, and if she's bringing the sexy to a lesbian character and lesbian relationships, then I'm looking forward to it.

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solitasolano Sep 16 2009, 09:53 PM

Who are these people?

One thing is for sure, no one is getting paid (the cast and crew) because all the money must surely be going to the marketing genius, the publicist and PR people/person. Just today, on the SAME day, during this, the LAST week of GL, Crystal has appearances on this program, CNNi and Good Day LA. Same day!

Watched this once through and here are some aspects which made an impression:
1) The opening commentary along with the visual montage was thorough and good.
2) With the CNNi appearance, the Venice Team pushed to make a play for international viewser. They pushed for it in the mindschootz interview and I believe on the Venice facebook site as well as others I’m sure. Appeal to international viewership made it into the Becky Anderson commentary. Guess that’s what the “I” in CNNi is for. Good fit to shout out to international viewers. (Free subtitling from fan base. Gee, I wonder how they are going to control spoilers? Don’t call me a cynic on this, call me experienced.
3) LOL. CC announced they plan to pay production costs with sale of merchandise. I know nothing about marketing. I do suspect, even without cast and crew being paid, production costs for the first season, announced at two weeks shooting will be well over $200K. Hey potta potties, bottled water and food will add up…or maybe everyone will just operate on endless supplies of Redbull. How many Tshirts is that? At $30 a piece with shipping an handling that’s is 6666 Tshirts. Just sayin.
4) Love that it took a full 4 seconds into the special sneak photo image on screen for YTer poster lizard to figure out what she was looking at. If you listen, you can hear her gasp, 4 seconds into the image being on screen once she figures out what she is looking at, the sneakk pic. Hey the image is gasp worthy.

Now in order as I look at it again.
1) Over 10,000 twitter followers between the three principals. And I haven’t been added myself yet.
2) First time I’ve seen or heard Hope R speak.
3) Questions to the show “crushed” their website. Ok now, CC has made her impression.
4) Loved the set in the London studio where right at the top of the interview there’s that giant screen pic of CC over Anderson’s shoulder. Good move. Good design. Nice.
5) CC was in the CNN studio on Sunset in Hollywood where Anderson Cooper broadcasts from. Wonder if he knows who CC is?
6) Have to hand it to the Venice producing team to use the fan base for creative material ie. logo (gee for the price of an autographed tshirt Venice has a logo) and fan submitted music which will be free also.

Crystal was also on Good Day LA this am….only “watched” it since I was in a sound mix listening for my job. This is the FOX ch’s am goof show…talks about entertainment news. When I can’t stand depressing news on NPR in the morning, these fox clowns are a great escape. So I don’t know the content except the video quality was good and Crystal looked fantastic…makeup made her look totally like Olivia Freakin Spencer. Sexy lady would be an understatement. Smart lady also adds to the sexy. Good luck to the Venice team. I wish them well.

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abzug Sep 16 2009, 10:07 PM

solitasolano[/b
 
I do suspect, even without cast and crew being paid, production costs for the first season, announced at two weeks shooting will be well over $200K. Hey potta potties, bottled water and food will add up…or maybe everyone will just operate on endless supplies of Redbull. How many Tshirts is that? At $30 a piece with shipping an handling that’s is 6666 Tshirts. Just sayin.

I think they're going to do it cheaper than this. One of those interviews mentioned that each episode is going to focus on just one or two characters plus Gina. So how much catering do you need when you're filming 2-3 actors? I mean, the crew can't be THAT big, right?

That said, with 10K twitter followers, 6000 members of BPD etc, I don't think they'll have a hard time selling 6000 tshirts. If the logo is halfway decent, I'm planning to buy one, just to support the cause.

solitasolano
 
1) The opening commentary along with the visual montage was thorough and good.

Totally. It was probably the most competent coverage of the storyline I've seen, which just proves what hacks most of the soap press are.

solitasolano
 
6) Have to hand it to the Venice producing team to use the fan base for creative material ie. logo (gee for the price of an autographed tshirt Venice has a logo) and fan submitted music which will be free also.

Yeah, I've been admiring this for a couple months now. I was describing it to some friends that Crystal is like the Secretary of Defense, Kim and Hope (and Lesley, the publicist) are like the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and then you've got the generals, who are the uber-fans who run the CC and Venice Facebook pages, fan clubs etc. And then you've got the lieutenants, and infantry, who post on the message boards, send letters to the networks, and generally just get fired up whenever a mass movement of people is needed.

I've honestly never seen anything like it. I can't decide if CC is like the most popular girl at school (meaning it comes naturally to her to get people to follow her in droves) or if she's more conscious and strategic about it.

I've always been skeptical as to whether viral marketing, especially when consciously channelled, can be effective. This will be a test of that, in my mind. And in a weird way, if it's not any good, and yet still proves popular, that will be even stronger evidence of CC's viral marketing genius.

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solitasolano Sep 16 2009, 10:20 PM

[...]I took a look at the GoodDayLA Fox thing.

First of all, Jillian Reynolds (who knows no shame) did one of two “coming up” teasers saying Chappell’s character “got the sexy go go scene”. You have to be used to these morning Fox talk show people to appreciate anything they say. They’re actually very funny.

Here’s one of many links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVtls1AF0vQ
Jillian and Crystal are twitter friends.
Right out of the gate CC was asked about the lack of physical contact between the two characters….she answered totally party line, but she looked great as always and totally had the Olivia lips working their thing.

On this show as well as CNNi CC referred to Venice as a soap opera.
The piece showed GL clips over the majority of the talking. At the end, the guy (he’s in there to be a tool for the two women goofball hosts) was actually very funny when he asked the best question of the morning about her Charly character. “What color will her hair be?
Chappell’s reply, “Depends on my mood.” LOL. Dude, so true.

abzug
 
.... then you've got the generals, who are the uber-fans who run the CC and Venice Facebook pages, fan clubs etc. And then you've got the lieutenants, and infantry, who post on the message boards, send letters to the networks, and generally just get fired up whenever a mass movement of people is needed.
I've honestly never seen anything like it

Yeah, didn't I read somewhere that Cathy Wagner ran CCandfriends and I think CCFacebook , what else, from Ohio somewhere with 14 volunteers!!!????
I've never seen anything like it either.

True, the filming when done will be small and guerrilla like. What was I thinking? So 6000 tshirts isn't a lot huh? I wouldn't know then.

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cagey Sep 17 2009, 03:56 PM

[...]
solitasolano[/b
 
Right out of the gate CC was asked about the lack of physical contact between the two characters….she answered totally party line, but she looked great as always and totally had the Olivia lips working their thing.

Hewing to the party line only helps her Venice marketing, do you not think? They are totally pitching Venice as the Thinking Lesbian's Alternative.

In my humble experience, 6000 tshirts is a lot of product to move. And if you clear $10 on a $30 shirt that's doing good.

I think CC should now do her Zero Mostel and seduce lesbians with money - which wouldn't be hard - and get them to back the show.

abzug
 
I've honestly never seen anything like it. I can't decide if CC is like the most popular girl at school (meaning it comes naturally to her to get people to follow her in droves) or if she's more conscious and strategic about it.

Cheerleader? Why yes she was.

But she is the public face for this enterprise, it is the people who are not so visible who will make or break this happening. I wouldn't call her the SecDef or CEO of the project by any means.

solitasolano
 
Yeah, didn't I read somewhere that Cathy Wagner ran CCandfriends and I think CCFacebook , what else, from Ohio somewhere with 14 volunteers!!!????
I've never seen anything like it either.

Is that pre or post Otalia? Cause fan-wise there must have been a huge surge. However, I think that is how most of these fan-things work. I just read a fairly serious musicology book about Dusty Springfield that described the army of fans who volunteer to create and maintain a fan network. It's still alive and well even if she isn't.

============= ===============

abzug Sep 17 2009, 04:41 PM

cagey
 
I think CC should now do her Zero Mostel and seduce lesbians with money - which wouldn't be hard - and get them to back the show.

I'd cough up four figures for that experience, for sure. party.gif

cagey
 
But she is the public face for this enterprise, it is the people who are not so visible who will make or break this happening. I wouldn't call her the SecDef or CEO of the project by any means.

But then who is? You've got an actress, a writer and a director, and all three are considered producers. I don't think any of them are true business-people, with an eye to the bottom line, or experience making financial forecasts. (Should I offer my services?) But in terms of rallying the troops, I'd still call CC the secretary of defense.

cagey
 
Is that pre or post Otalia? Cause fan-wise there must have been a huge surge.

Pre. She's been doing it since before Guiding Light, I believe. And yes, there was an enormous surge from Otalia. I think CC's fan base probably increased by 5x or 10x at least. I know they couldn't let everyone in to the fan club lunch event, even after moving it to a larger venue, and I don't believe they've had that problem in the past. (I have some friends going, which is how I know these things. [...])
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ekny
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(mod hat) Ok, I prob copied a little more than necessary but all relevant discussion about Venice has now been moved here. Go wild. :) --e

ps: If anyone wants the thread retitled that's fine, just come up with something you all agree on & let me know please.
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solitasolano
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Feedback I would have given if I was around today: Good idea ekny. I agree make a new thread and it would be funny to call it "Venice, the thread". :silly
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Well now I'm not sure whether I should have put it here or under Lesbian Web Series, but... for now since it's going to be getting a LOT of traffic, I'm thinking it might be easier to leave it here, rather than bury it another layer down, so people can access it without so much clicking? --e
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solitasolano
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You can stop overthinking it. It's perfect. Leave it like this. Maybe and hopefully, they'll be something to talk about. :)
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abzug
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The section from Crystal's interview with Michael Fairman which focuses on Venice. Can I just say, my beef about the web is how sloppy things are! I mean, the number of typos in this interview is ridiculous!

MICHAEL:

You are web savvy and have been very entrepreneurial with the development of your upcoming web series, “Venice”. You held back confirming you were going to play the lead, Gina, for a while. Why?

CRYSTAL:

The intention was always to play her, and that came up right after “GL” was cancelled and then I got my job on DAYS. There is a contract involved, and they usually want exclusivity across the board. I needed to get permission from NBC and Corday Productions to play another character on the web in a new series.

MICHAEL:

I see. Now, Gina is very open-minded living her life in Venice Beach, California. Is she a free spirit? I hear she has got some issues!

cosgrove_chappell.jpgCRYSTAL:

She has got some issues. Gina is very smart, driven, but she is very business oriented and fun. She and her brother Owen have great repartee. Danny Cosgrove and I have such a blast when we work together. Gina is one of those people who make great decisions in her professional life, but when it comes to her personal life, it never works with someone; something is broken.

MICHAEL:

Are we going to see her going through different romantic entanglements?

CRYSTAL:

Yes, and Jessica Leccia plays Annie, her-ex. They have a wonderful relationship. Gina just does not know if she wants to go back there. She is not good in relationships at all at this point. It’s going to be interesting how she resolves that part of herself, but there are other things that get in the way, and other things that slow down the journey. There is something that happens in the end that just rocks everybody.

MICHAEL:

From what I understand, you have mapped out an entire season.

CRYSTAL:

Right now, we have mapped out six minutes episodes. We are going into the first season a bit lighter, partly due to time constraints, but also we are doing this ourselves. I am hoping by season two we can have it seven or eight minutes long. I think that is possible. I imagine a season is twelve episodes.

MICHAEL:

venice_series_logo3.jpgEach one of these actors: Keener, Leccia, Sabatino, Cosgrove, Smith, and Clarke you tweeted about that they were going to be involved and play roles in Venice. Was getting these actors effortless? Did you just say,” Hey, do you want to do my show? Or, I have a role for you?”

CRYSTAL:

Pretty much. You know what? I walk around telling my friends, “I have the best friends in the world,” and I almost get weepy when I think how generous these people are being to me. I was very enthusiastic about the project, and they just really wanted to be supportive. I think they are all smart people, and I am sure this could be something in the future that could possibly make them a living.

MICHAEL:

So Hillary B. Smith, Danny Cosgrove and Jessica Leccia would come to LA to film?

CRYSTAL:

Yes, we will be flying out all the New Yorkers. We will be bringing them out here and we might also be doing some shooting in New York.

MICHAEL:

Guya is Hillary B. Smith’s role. How did you come to choose her for this interesting role?

CRYSTAL:

We talked about it and we had gone over some of the character descriptions and some things have been altered for a certain actor. Head writer, Kim Turrisi, is totally open to that. I was actually living with Hillary and her husband and her son, because I was actually spending more time living with other people this summer then with my own family. So I better have given Hillary a role!

MICHAEL:

You have moved to LA now?

CRYSTAL:

We are back up in the central coast of California. I sent my son and husband ahead for the summer because I wanted them to get back to the west coast and get used to our home up north. They left the beginning of July. Now with DAYS being in LA, I might possibly ended up getting a place here, but we are still on the central coast. We will see how it works. If the strain is too much with the commute, we will move down, but right now they are enjoying themselves up there.

crystal_jessica_reddress.jpgMICHAEL:

Speaking of moves, do you miss your Jessica? I was watching the final week of “GL” and I was like, “Oh, look at the lesbian clutch in the corner,” during the double wedding!

CRYSTAL:

That is hilarious!

MICHAEL:

In the scenes this week, Otalia seems completely out and proud! At the “GL” double wedding of Buzz/Lillian and Vanessa/Billy, I thought how funny to throw all four lesbians in the corner together, when we never saw anything like that before.

CRYSTAL:

Well, we like each other anyway. We are the fun group.

MICHAEL:

With the gay audience for Venice, you have touted that there will be a kiss at the beginning of the first episode. Is that really true?

CRYSTAL:

That is really true.

MICHAEL:

And it’s going to be a well-rounded show, not just about Gina’s same-sex relationship.

CRYSTAL:

Correct. It’s going to be a well-rounded show with a diverse group of characters.

MICHAEL:

So your hope with the gay audience is that you want to extend what Otalia couldn’t do? You have cultivated the gay audience so amazingly well. Is it to give them something more?

CRYSTAL:

My feeling is that this had been an education. I obviously have many, many gay friends.

MICHAEL:

Now you have millions of gay friends!

last_day_group_photo.jpgCRYSTAL:

I am lucky in my life, but my point is, we are all family. It’s a diverse world and what I learned from the Otalia storyline, and from the emails I got from all over the world was how forthcoming people were with their stories. Their gratitude would literally make me weep. It just seemed too big to ignore. When Guiding Light got cancelled it was like we just could not let this go. We did not want to repeat Otalia because that was just too special. You can’t do that. That was brilliant. The idea of creating a show and the lead character just happens to be out and comfortable with who she is. She has this family who is messed up, and friends who had their own stuff going on… that is what I want to watch. There is affection that happens!

MICHAEL:

No! (He laughs)

CRYSTAL:

Yeah, certainly in my life it does. (She laughs) The whole thing is exciting. We have our dream cast and we get to work with them.

MICHAEL:

And Elizabeth Keener is in this!

CRYSTAL:

Yes… she is fantastic and she is playing Lara, and she is playing a lesbian.

MICHAEL:

Lara the lesbian?

CRYSTAL:

Yes, Lara the lesbian. It rolls of the tongue, Michael, doesn’t it?

MICHAEL:

So you are set to shoot next month?

glamourshot.jpgCRYSTAL:

We are hoping to shoot the end of October and have it up sometime after Thanksgiving. Prior to the debut we want to have a couple launch parties in LA and NY.
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abzug
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Tiny little backstage at the Emmys video posted on http://www.venicetheseries.com today, along with a photo of CC and JL. And I guess they started a message board which has crashed. Not a lot to tide us over until the end of November, especially given the anti-climactic conclusion to Otalia on GL.
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solitasolano
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I think it was the message board which was the "surprise", although silly me I like the CC/JL Gina/Ani production still. Is that CC in a wife beater. LOL. Photo seems like it was a while ago since JL still has all the baby roundness to her face.

Ok, here goes. Line up for early wagering. Find a currency exchange to change your left over Otalia bucks into Venice lira. Let the wagering begin.

Here's my spec. Long shot odds for sure. Remember I said it here first: Venice opens in flashback. Don't know how long of one, but it opens in the past.

Ok, here's the honest wager, I will bet an clothing item of choice from the already famous Venice the series online store that softball or a softball game is included somewhere in the storyline of the first season. Any takers? :innocent


On the incredible viral marketing this Venice thing has going on, I swear to the goddesses I read this in last nights Venice tweetfest, someone tweeted nycwriterchick that they wanted to put the Team Venice logo on their race car...Hope tweeted back, "Let's make this happen".

At this point, if the webseries is mediocre or no good, the build up has been something to behold.
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cagey
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There's a message board? Looks to me like you need to join the team and then you can network. Oh yeah. Same thing maybe. I think it is the hand clutch that signifies it as Otalia.

solitasolano
 
Ok, here goes. Line up for early wagering. Find a currency exchange to change your left over Otalia bucks into Venice lira. Let the wagering begin.


You mean Venice is not in the common currency LesboZone? I am so disappointed. I do have some old Italian Lire - would they be convertable?

So you are betting a softball game will happen in the first series of Venice? Is that the wager? Oooh. I am so bad at this and so easily swayed. Okay. I will take that wager. But I will not pay out in anything resembling a "wifebeater". I live in a cave most of the time and until very recently have not heard this term. It bothers me. Should it? :huh:

solitasolano
 
At this point, if the webseries is mediocre or no good, the build up has been something to behold.


I feel like we are riding the swell, waiting for the wave, it's going to be fantastic or w i p e o u t.
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Despite the horrible epithet, wifebeaters (men's undershirts), worn by the Right Woman, are ridiculously hot.

That's not an opinion. That's a fact. ;) --e
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abzug
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I'm with you on the wifebeater, e.

And with you on the flashback, s. I've been assuming that for a while, because we know Ani is Gina's ex, and yet we also know there is going to be some sexual involvement between them. The most likely way for them to accomplish this is by flashing back to when they were together. Then the series can proceed without them being together, so it has somewhere to go with the two of them.

In terms of expectations, my thought is there's no way it can meet them, because six minutes once a week (or once every two weeks, or whatever the schedule is going to be) is such a small hit, even if it were actual porn (not that that is what I want, or what everyone else wants), there wouldn't be enough sex, and even if it were authentic lesbian characters and relationship stuff, it wouldn't be enough of that.
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Not disagreeing about the appeal of women in all sorts of men's undershirts. But I think we can all agree that shirt on CC was never meant to be worn by a man.

I had to go look up the origin of "wifebeater" - seems to be a relatively new construction for an article of clothing that is very old. Or, it's beer if you are in Britain.

abzug
 
And with you on the flashback, s. I've been assuming that for a while, because we know Ani is Gina's ex, and yet we also know there is going to be some sexual involvement between them. The most likely way for them to accomplish this is by flashing back to when they were together. Then the series can proceed without them being together, so it has somewhere to go with the two of them.


Wait - am I the only one here who has slept with an ex? Talk about your potential for soapish drama and authentic lesbian relationship stuff.
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abzug
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cagey
Sep 21 2009, 12:30 PM
Wait - am I the only one here who has slept with an ex? Talk about your potential for soapish drama and authentic lesbian relationship stuff.

You are definitely the only person on the planet who has ever done something as crazy as that! :eek

So, yeah, that's another scenario which seems viable. But question is, if they've just found themselves back in eachother's lives (which we know from one or another of the interviews), then is it likely they're going to fall into bed immediately, for old times sake? Or would the writers try to prolong that moment so it has more emotional buildup?

Ach, I'm only spending time speculating on this because today is the first Monday where I haven't had Guiding Light to talk about since February. There's definitely a void.
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solitasolano
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abzug
 
And with you on the flashback
Dang there goes the odds. Flashback is now the chalk line.

cagey
 
am I the only one here who has slept with an ex?
Keep it coming. Means I might get a little more on my return. I'm still with the flashback. Six or seven minutes is hardly enough time to answer the door (hyperbole, I know it's an eternity in soaptime).

abzug
 
In terms of expectations, my thought is there's no way it can meet them, because six minutes once a week...
I think it's possible to deliver a story line in the 7 minutes web series time frame, but at the same time, kissage or not, each web epi will be nothing more than a teaser.

abzug
 
I'm only spending time speculating ......There's definitely a void.
Yep, no more new picts to look at, not to mention the reading of extensive thoughtful comments of the gang.
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abzug
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The thing is, we spent months, nay, years discussing Bad Girls even when it was no longer being broadcast. And while I know GL isn't worthy of that kind of attention, have we really wrung all the pleasure out of it which we can wring?

On the other hand, I also have a bit of the hungover feeling of having finally gotten out a relationship which had gone sour, and so the idea of revisiting the parts of the relationship which were good (eg Sep 08 - Apr 09) is not entirely appealing. Like, I'm still nursing wounds, have a bit of unresolved rage, etc.

I think there may be one kind of engagement when you're watching a storyline as it is being broadcast, and another kind when you're watching it after the fact, when it has been completed and can be viewed in its entirety as an artistic whole. And it's hard to switch gears from the former to the latter. Because the former is so preoccupied with the question of what will happen (which is inherently an emotional experience with all the ups and downs and anticipation), while the latter is preoccupied with understanding the meaning of what did happen (more analytic, less of an emotional roller coaster).

Shall I post this in the GL thread as well? It's starting to seem off-topic here.....
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