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| Venice: the thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 17 2009, 10:22 PM (6,371 Views) | |
| abzug | Dec 15 2009, 10:49 PM Post #166 |
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In love with a prisoner
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But it's important nonetheless, because it has some significant information from the business side: that they've sold enough subscriptions and had enough views of the first episode that they're proceeding with season 2. So it's the equivalent of a network announcing a full season pickup for a new series. Other than that, yeah, it's talking up the show and its success, which is only so reliable since it's in her interest to put as good a face on it as possible. |
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| molsongrrrl | Dec 16 2009, 06:25 AM Post #167 |
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But that is part of her job as basically "the face" of Venice, isn't it? And how is it any different from an actor appearing on The Tonight Show or whatever to pimp his/her latest movie? |
| There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure. | |
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| ekny | Dec 16 2009, 03:04 PM Post #168 |
In love with a prisoner
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It's not different, you're right. Sorry if I sounded critical or gave offense, think I'll bag it for awhile. The simple fact is, I don't respect soaps, I don't care about the industry or whether soaps will survive (in any way, or form). Did you know the average cost to produce a soap, per year, is 50 million dollars? Fifty. Million? Fucking-A, cable managed to produce **Deadwood** for 60mil a year. What on god's green earth is soaps' excuse?? --neither am I particularly interested in Venice as an enterprise. I thought I was in an academic kinda way; turns out I'm not. You can't even see their old fanfic thread now, w/o being a member. Which is beyond stupid. I'm only interested in its lesbian content, which content feels (to me) dubious at best, and given the whole package--the complex motivations & economics behind the enterprise, etc--it will remain highly problematic--indeed, compromised/suspect. (For me.) At best. Again--sorry if I sounded too critical. I didn't think I was being so. Abzug said here's an article, I said, yeah but--what's it about? I enjoy watching CC & JL onscreen, and that's all. --e |
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| molsongrrrl | Dec 16 2009, 03:36 PM Post #169 |
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Hey I didn't think you were being too critical at all! I just meant ... who in Hollywood doesn't do the very same thing when it comes to various projects? Talks shows and tons of magazines exist solely to feed that beast!
But remember, soaps are essentially a year round proposition. They don't take months off or even years off. They produce many more episodes than any regular tv show or cable tv show. 50 million doesn't seem all that bad when you look at it that way! |
| There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure. | |
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| abzug | Dec 16 2009, 05:13 PM Post #170 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I'm not a soap fan by any means. But given that they're replacing soaps with game shows and Judge Judy, I'm a HUGE fan of soaps, because at least they involve writers writing scripts. Which seems to be a rapidly declining commodity in entertainment these days. Yes, it's the lowest of the low, but at least it's crafted, and doesn't involve exhibitionists of dubious psychological stability, which is essentially what we're getting with Judge Judy and every other reality tv (or even game) show. |
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| ekny | Dec 16 2009, 06:03 PM Post #171 |
In love with a prisoner
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Yeah, I know. I am just in psychotic PM mode. Sorry!
That was a little *too* funny. <rueful> A friend came over the other night & spent, must've been 10 minutes, recounting a series of anecdotes about some freaking UK reality-TV music show. Like... I don't know: these were real people. People to identify with. I was sooo demoralized. |
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| solitasolano | Dec 16 2009, 08:40 PM Post #172 |
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Oh goody, the adventures of being lesbian visibility (albeit to be debated how legit) to popular culture continues. I for one am along for the ride. Humm, sponsorship? And I don't think she means subscriptions. Well, enjoy epi 2 (except for you ek, for you my message is, "try" to enjoy epi 2) as I am computerless and internetless except for visits to my brother's house. Cheers |
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| ekny | Dec 16 2009, 10:05 PM Post #173 |
In love with a prisoner
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Right! That! That's what I'm on about!
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| solitasolano | Dec 17 2009, 12:48 AM Post #174 |
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I liked this articles (especially the pics) even if it was overly gushy when it comes to all things CC and etc. (not that I could ever be accused of the same.) http://www.gomag.com/articlejpg.php?id=912&page=1 |
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| cagey | Dec 17 2009, 03:24 AM Post #175 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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I tell ya - a few days enforced absence from the internet in mid-America and this whole kerfluffle over Venice -- we'll let us just say as we discuss lesbian visibility in the major part of america: this ain't it. At least not yet. I do believe solitasolano is having the same experience - without the Middle America. By which, I mean, is lesbian visibility about folks other than us seeing lesbians in media? Now I don't even know if I should be discussing this over on the Lido deck or where. But. Couple of thoughts having had my little time-out: Venice is NOT a soap. It is a serial drama. Like many broadcast dramas these days, like, if I may take a name in vain, Deadwood. The author of Venice refers to writing it as if she were writing a film script. There is an ending, in other words. Unlike the very specific and, for my money, very challenging writing for a daily soap. The actors here have a background in soaps but I would like to think they also have experience in other acting platforms and can bring that experience to the series. I think we all get a sense of that indifference that ekny identifies about the whole enterprise, aside from the specific interest in the 2 actors together. But I think we are feeling a queasiness about the process and product which relates exactly to those age old questions of lesbian visibility and meaning thereof. Can't quite dismiss the entire show, but can't quite see it as "lesbian." |
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| ekny | Dec 17 2009, 08:39 PM Post #176 |
In love with a prisoner
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Well, I'm not comfortable being exampled as patient zero of indifference in that it's possible other people are still really psyched & just shy abt admitting it. Which is why I don't want to go on about my own reaction. I'd have to demur about not-calling it a soap, however... sorry. As for the queasiness: there ITA. And think that's a very real issue. And (to us) an important one. |
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| cagey | Dec 17 2009, 09:59 PM Post #177 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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So, just for conversation's sake, here is a list of soap opera characteristics (from Sam Ford): 1.) Serial form which resists narrative closure 2.) Multiple characters and plots 3.) Use of time which parallels actual time and implies that the action continues to take place whether we watch it or not 4.) Abrupt segmentation between parts 5.) Emphasis on dialogue, problem solving, and intimate conversation 6.) Male characters who are “sensitive men” 7.) Female characters who are often professional and otherwise powerful in the world outside the home 8.) The home, or some other place which functions as a home, as the setting for the show Regardless of how melodramatic the sl in Venice might become, I don't think it will ever qualify as a soap opera. |
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| abzug | Dec 17 2009, 11:00 PM Post #178 |
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In love with a prisoner
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Well, I guess it depends which of those criteria we determine to be essential for something to be a soap. I mean, do you need to have any 5 out of 8 characteristics? Or are 2 of the characteristics required, and then you need to have any 3 of the remaining 6? Because it seems pretty clear that Venice isn't going to satisfy criteria #3 and #4 (although time will tell with #4), and it seems to me that #3 is one of the essential qualities of a soap opera, and if you don't have that then you're not a soap. I mean, do we consider "Grey's Anatomy" a soap opera? It satisfies everything except #3. But you know what's missing from this list? Some reference to soap operas tendency to tell melodramatic stories. Just the fact that it has multiple plots doesn't seem to quite capture that essential aspect of soaps. |
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| solitasolano | Dec 19 2009, 11:17 PM Post #179 |
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Oh uh. I had a fast look. If the best thing about epi 2 is CC's hairdo and how skinny her legs look over the top of the office desk, then this epi's in trouble....well to be honest, I ff'd through the Hilary/Tina stuff. Just sayin. Not to worry, I'm in there for the long haul....season what? |
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| abzug | Dec 19 2009, 11:22 PM Post #180 |
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In love with a prisoner
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I think KT thought she could introduce TS and HBS's characters in the same, no-introductory way she introduced JL and CC's characters, but that just isn't so. It would have REALLY helped to know who they were and how they were related to Gina. Instead it felt like random old ladies tacked on. Like, there were two episodes attached to each other to fill out the requisite number of minutes. Also, it seems I was wrong about how Venice would handle the passage of time. Doesn't it seem like this episode is "later that same day"? Will the entire season happen during one week? Yikes! |
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8:46 AM Jul 11