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Venice: the thread
Topic Started: Sep 17 2009, 10:22 PM (6,381 Views)
solitasolano
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I found this.
I thought it was pretty funny, plus "having one or two lebsians in bikinis making out" made it into the presentation under the requisite 30 second mark.

:silly
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cagey
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solitasolano
Sep 21 2009, 06:07 PM
I found this. 
I thought it was pretty funny, plus "having one or two lebsians in bikinis making out" made it into the presentation under the requisite 30 second mark.

:silly

That Famous Director is working on something called "Dimples"?

abzug
 
But question is, if they've just found themselves back in each other's lives (which we know from one or another of the interviews), then is it likely they're going to fall into bed immediately, for old times sake? Or would the writers try to prolong that moment so it has more emotional buildup?


Humm. Well, I didn't know that. All I heard was they were ex's and they were not going to be having a relationship. Which is why I am willing to contemplate that with sufficient alcoholic inducement, they sure could end up in bed together immediately for old times sake. Between permabonding and soap rules for coupling, they could hit the sheets regularly and still not be "involved." Although I hope this is not the opening sequence for the show because it would be very bad role modeling for the children.

solitasolano
 
Remember I said it here first: Venice opens in flashback. Don't know how long of one, but it opens in the past.


Opens, you say? You are firm on that? First scene, flashback? Possibly involving vintage clothing and hair? Or is it just last year? What about, first scene present day with later flashback? I've been burned in my devil may care Otalia gambling, and just want to understand the game you are playing. :ph43r:

I do believe entire scripts will be written by a thousand bored and creative lesbians before this thing ever hits the air. We could try to compose one as a collective writing exercise, but it would really require the talents of Soap Opera Prognosticator Ekny to do it accurately.
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song_stress
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Hello old inmates,
The Venice website has been continually crashing since it opened on Saturday. They said there was a surprise. A test you might say to find out if they needed a bigger server..OH YES they do. Mind you over 3400 members were trying to get on at one time.and the numbers are still growing.The fans are really good at breaking things. The CNNi site and their own.

Found several H&N members over there. There is even a group...Crystal vs Simone...the battle of the power suits so to speak.
The fans can start their own forums called groups. These are starting to get out of hand and duplicating themselves as far as I can see while navigating the sight. The groups have discussions comparable to our threads here. But you need to be IN a group to reply.

There is even a group for possible sponsors, asking the fans what companies or products they would like to see advertised. Interesting that the public could be involved in the ads . Is this a first? I don't know. But if you want to sponsor something wouldn't it be a product you think they have a chance of buying? As opposed to the "soap" industry that started it all. Times have changed and the target audience isn't going for that anymore. There have also been rumors( and polls) That is could be a pay/season deal .....$10 was thrown around. Someone asked if they would sell it on iTunes as Exesand Oh's was. The answer was...they are looking into that too.

From what I understood , the season will be 13 or so eps/10 minutes each. Crystal said that each season could be shot in 2 weeks time....5 per year. CC says she has NO plans to leave a calling card for a tv network or cable. She wants it on the web where everyone can see as she has such a vast international following.

There is only ONE writer,Kimmy T, this is her baby and I don't think she isn't planning on sharing it from interviews that I have read. Although there is a writer group looking for what the fans want....Led by KT. Don't forget the 3 PTB want this to be as interactive as possible with the fans,as they are the people that brought Crystal to this project.

As for the kiss within the 1st 30 seconds. ....There is speculation as to a flashback but noone knows. But don't forget...these women are USED to playing lovers even though there was no physicality to the relationship on GL. I found their chemistry to be quite simlar to SL & MJ. I am sure the first kiss will make many Otalia fans happy, but these two characters are said to be nothing like their respective old characters.

here is a link for the latest interview http://mindschmootz.net/

A store is to be open soon, as soon as they get a server that we can't "break".


Crystal has tweet fests WITH her fans. Many of whom are trying to deflower themselves as CCTwitter virgins. Scrambling for any Tweet that is returned. Thus feeling that they have finally been "Chappelled" I have never seen anything like this.


But the fan base is definitely there. I for one think it will be a hit. And yes it is a labor of love. CC has been moved by her own audience enough to start this.
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abzug
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I just spent a little time poking around the Venice groups section. It's interesting--rather than using a traditional message board, they're going with a social networking application, a la Facebook. (I'm interested in this because we're looking at something similar for my company.) It does lead to some major chaos, though. Groups galore, but not a lot of activity happening in many of them. Is it better to just let people do what they want, and assume that there will be a natural gravitational pull allowing certain groups to rise to the top, attracting more participants? Or should there be more moderation/structure to it? I guess only time will tell.
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cagey
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song_stress
 
The Venice website has been continually crashing since it opened on Saturday. They said there was a surprise. A test you might say to find out if they needed a bigger server..OH YES they do. Mind you over 3400 members were trying to get on at one time.and the numbers are still growing.The fans are really good at breaking things. The CNNi site and their own.


Fans are good at breaking things... So true. Maybe it was a test load - they said there would be a surprise just to see how many fans would hit the site at peak. And thus the manipulation has begun. Okay, forget I said that.

song_stress
 
There is even a group for possible sponsors, asking the fans what companies or products they would like to see advertised. Interesting that the public could be involved in the ads . Is this a first? I don't know. But if you want to sponsor something wouldn't it be a product you think they have a chance of buying? As opposed to the "soap" industry that started it all. Times have changed and the target audience isn't going for that anymore. There have also been rumors( and polls) That is could be a pay/season deal .....$10 was thrown around. Someone asked if they would sell it on iTunes as Exesand Oh's was. The answer was...they are looking into that too.


I guess we've all been knocking around the notion of how does a webseries pay for itself. Not enough Tshirts, and even, I don't think, enough $10 subscribers to pay the real costs, much less the base costs of those folks who aren't going to work for free.

For all the talk of how the web is the chance to be censor free, what happens when P&G or other big sponsors see this as the new commercial opportunity?

Truly a thank you for the inside look on the Venice board - I get intimidated by any club that would accept me as a member and so haven't joined the team.

PS:
abzug
 
(I'm interested in this because we're looking at something similar for my company.)


Big company or little company? I ask mostly because most of these great plans seem to be again about technology fixing things that weren't broke. If we all sit in one big room, do we really need a cyber team to coordinate our actions?
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abzug
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cagey
 
For all the talk of how the web is the chance to be censor free, what happens when P&G or other big sponsors see this as the new commercial opportunity?

Well, if you believe Crystal Chappell from her AfterEllen interview, the corporations they're talking to now know what the show is about, so they know what they're signing on for. And down the road, if the show is successful, it will serve as proof to the corporations that they can have explicit lesbian content and be commercially successful at the same time, and thus the corporations won't want to censor out the lesbian content.

Her naive idealism is kind of sweet, don't you think? I can't figure out why she doesn't realize how radioactive lesbians are, in the eyes of corporate America. She was a victim of it herself in the last 4-6 months of this storyline, and yet she seems to not want to see it or acknowledge it.

cagey
 
Big company or little company? I ask mostly because most of these great plans seem to be again about technology fixing things that weren't broke. If we all sit in one big room, do we really need a cyber team to coordinate our actions?

Medium-sized, I guess. Our annual web revenues are in the 9 figures. I guess what we're fixing is the fact that, like Venice, our site represents somewhat of a niche cultural interest, and therefore in order to get a high enough concentration of people who share the interest, you need to go virtual. You just can't get enough people in one big room when they're spread across the country or across the world.

The other advantage of these kinds of social networking communities is that we, the business, can listen in, and have more of a dialogue with our customers than would be possible otherwise. For Venice, I would imagine that's even more important. So they create a playground where people can do what they want, and that gets lots of people to come and play, and then when they need information from the folks in the playground, they can get it.
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cagey
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abzug
Sep 23 2009, 02:34 PM
The other advantage of these kinds of social networking communities is that we, the business, can listen in, and have more of a dialogue with our customers than would be possible otherwise. For Venice, I would imagine that's even more important. So they create a playground where people can do what they want, and that gets lots of people to come and play, and then when they need information from the folks in the playground, they can get it.

Bingo!

Ya know, I really think P&G is such a good fit for a lesbian series, what will all their "sanitary products." It is the one thing that unites us all at some point or another. Seriously, if you were going to market to a predominately lesbian audience, with its hugely divergence demographics, what would you market?
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abzug
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cagey
Sep 23 2009, 10:33 PM
Seriously, if you were going to market to a predominately lesbian audience, with its hugely divergence demographics, what would you market?

Wifebeaters? Sperm banks? Vibrators?

Oh, wait, I forgot, we're just like everyone else. So, umm, toothpaste, swiffer, laundry detergent....

The cool opportunity here, actually, is that the web series is niche, which means (arguably) that products which never had the budget to do video advertising before would be able to do so. So you really could start seeing ads for sperm banks. Or lawyers who specialize in gay family law. Or gay-themed commercials for major products (didn't Avis do some of those back a couple years ago?).
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solitasolano
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cagey
 
Seriously, if you were going to market to a predominately lesbian audience, with its hugely divergence demographics, what would you market?


Panties! :lol:
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ekny
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Demographic marketing has sure worked awfully well for Subaru and Absolut.
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ekny
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You sexy thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kulwJqRwzl8

Body movin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCeZn8hVS5w

Neither of these do jack for me, but it's hard to believe the something being made of... very little, here. (I know I'm way behind the curve. Don't care. Am not interested in the curve.)
------

I don't even know where to start with all my reservations about this effort. I honestly wish them all due success--assuming it's due. Assuming the story is well-written. If it's not, nothing else is going to matter.

I don't plan to go on w/a series of gloomy glass-half-full posts... no one wanted to hear that stuff when I started with it on the Otalia thread, & given the uh, overwhelming Positivity associated w/Venice at the moment, I know I risk pissing people off. So--this is it. One-shot & then I'm done, ok? Apologies in advance if I'm raining on anyone's parade. But I am way past any ability to give anyone in media the benefit of any doubt.


1) Lemme just say flat out: There is simply no way they can make it work with 5 minutes a week, they're not thinking right about how time passes on the net.

It's. not. enough. If it doesn't work it'll be DOA in 3 weeks flat--that's not the problem: if it works it will not be anywhere near enough. People's attention is splintered left and right, yes. People (esp starving lesbians waiting for tablescraps) will make a meal out of crumbs as we have seen... let me think. Sometime recently, I can't quite recall. Anyways: what they cannot do is sustain a narrative of such brevity over months & months with so little text to work with.

I think they'll eventually need to switch to either 2 days a week or more simply, a longer episode. Imo.


2) If their web-person is any indication... they are not going about this the best way. I'm not sure about the Facebook model at *all*. Their main page is cluttered: it looks more like AfterEllen than anything else. Ugh.

And their 'special treat'... um. Was kinda like Nat's grand gesture. Did I blink? Cause I sure missed it. Let us be frank: it was lame.

I believe they had something else in mind & ran out of time, or didn't get around to it. Understood. They're going to get a pass for quite a while, assuming hot-chicks-making-out (shall we coin our own acronym? O let's do) continues to be the order of the day. But they need to get organized technically, first off. If their free publicity is media-driven, it ah, needs to stay that way. Pay upfront for more bandwidth. Make sure the site's stable & organized so you can follow threads, not so they subdivide indefinitely. You want your audience together, not atomized.

(I don't actually think, if they plan to use that site for feedback, it'll work: they're preaching to the converted. Look at Purplestan. Not really a model for free speech. Or critical thinking. And they weren't even 'directly' associated with the show: BPD was not the Official board, is my point.)


3) [~6 paragraphs excised to extend my life-expectancy.]

4) Re CC's contract in straight soap-land... ah, yeah. We'll see. I think someone hasn't thought this through. Just not sure who. Maybe they're thinking Synergy on DooL. I hope so. Otherwise I see nothing to stop a suit from saying, I don't care *what* we put in her contract, that's what we have Legal for: one of them's got to go, either that, that web thing or Carly 2.0. Iow I see nothing to stop the same thing that happened on GL happening again, albeit from another direction.
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abzug
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Crystal Chappell tops the 2009 Soap Power list.

This fascinates me for two reasons:

1. The three soap actresses who are producing web series all made this list. There are very few other women on the list. It seems that the lack of power and opportunities for women in the establishment has led women to be more entrepreneurial where they can be (eg the web) rather than simply hanging on to the status quo. The question is whether these women can do a better job producing content online than the soap players have done producing content for tv for these last decades.

2. I never thought lesbian fans were a sizeable or formidable enough group to catapult anyone to number one in anything. We're not only marginalized based on our sexuality, but we're marginalized (power-wise) in terms of our gender as well. The idea that channeling our energies/support could get someone mainstream press that no soap players get, is really bizarre/surreal to me. And it's such a foreign experience that I'm not even sure I'm bothered by the fact that she's using us. Because, holy crap, we've got enough clout to be used? Who woulda thunk it?!

ekny
 
I think they'll eventually need to switch to either 2 days a week or more simply, a longer episode. Imo.

Not only do I agree with you, but as far as I recall, THEY agree with you. I think maybe it was the interview Kim and Hope did with mindschmootz where they talked about having longer episodes after the first season.

ekny
 
If their web-person is any indication... they are not going about this the best way. I'm not sure about the Facebook model at *all*. Their main page is cluttered: it looks more like AfterEllen than anything else. Ugh.

Man, I couldn't agree with you more. As far as I know, Hope, the director, is building their website right now. So it's definitely not professionally done. I'm hoping if/when they get some funding, they'll do a redesign/rebuild. As it is, I am having to sit on my hands to stop myself from volunteering my services to redesign their user interface, because it's so horrible right now.

I also agree with everthing you say about bandwidth etc, although in my own professional experience, you often can't project how much you will need until you crash. :-) Much larger companies than theirs (including my own, and companies much bigger than mine) have had their websites crash at critical moments.
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ekny
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abzug
 
it's such a foreign experience that I'm not even sure I'm bothered by the fact that she's using us.

Right. Which is all the stuff I *didn't* post. So thank you. I'm not sure if I need a t-shirt that says Kuck me/fick me or what, at this point.

abzug
 
ekny
 
I think they'll eventually need to switch to either 2 days a week or more simply, a longer episode. Imo.

Not only do I agree with you, but as far as I recall, THEY agree with you. I think maybe it was the interview Kim and Hope did with mindschmootz where they talked about having longer episodes after the first season.

Ah. Thx for pointing that out! :) Mindschmootz is so enamored of her high-end proprietary method of posting I got too irritated to finish the interview. That stuff'll be obsolete in 2 years and then where will her supposedly accessible public writing be? (Furthermore that's not the way to maintain copyright, just piss off your audience. But I digress.)

Quote:
 
As it is, I am having to sit on my hands to stop myself from volunteering my services to redesign their user interface, because it's so horrible right now.

This is encouraging. Thanks for this whole post. I was afeared I was gonna get told to shut my cynical chops the hell up, pretty much. (In a civilized kinda way, of course.)

The bandwidth was to be expected, I agree. The lack of preparation for something they promised truly desperate fans months ago... not so much.

These woman have juice. And CC is a legit star in her own universe. That's all that makes them different from me or my friends or you and yours, when you sit around the kitchen table, brainstorm, and say You know what we should do?! etc. So--all very nice. But it hasn't really left the kitchen table yet.

And I am still resolutely not-posting my ambivalences about getting pandered to, etc. It makes me seriously uncomfortable. I don't need to see hot chicks making out. I need to see some kind of extended, realistic story. I have yet to be convinced this is even possible in American media in *any* venue.
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abzug
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ekny
 
I don't need to see hot chicks making out. I need to see some kind of extended, realistic story.

Personally, I need BOTH, working together in an integrated way. We've never had that before, save on BG, and there wasn't all that much making out on that show.

ekny
 
I have yet to be convinced this is even possible in American media in *any* venue.

Totally. But I also feel like the web is the Last Great Hope, or something. So if it can be done, it'll be in the medium Venice is using. That doesn't mean they'll succeed, but at least they don't have both hands tied behind their backs and both feet tied together, like the Guiding Light people did.
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ekny
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abzug
Sep 24 2009, 05:37 PM
ekny
 
I don't need to see hot chicks making out. I need to see some kind of extended, realistic story.

Personally, I need BOTH, working together in an integrated way.

Obviously, that would be nice. But: L-word, was my point. :puke

Quote:
 
I also feel like the web is the Last Great Hope, or something. So if it can be done, it'll be in the medium Venice is using. That doesn't mean they'll succeed, but at least they don't have both hands tied behind their backs and both feet tied together, like the Guiding Light people did.

ITA. Lettuce never forget we are talking about American media, here. Europeans have already done a whole lot better. Not all the time, but consistently, in small ways? 'Nother planet.
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