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Venice: the thread
Topic Started: Sep 17 2009, 10:22 PM (6,378 Views)
ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Nope, I agree with y'all. Was just trying to get the ball rollin, and I *did* have those extra bucks (only *some* of which I have now squandered), so... I actually can't see CC playing against someone much much younger, but agree they probably feel they need another young hot chick in the mix. <shrug> Also, I don't know any Names, these days, not being tv-girl, so only had a few in my head from which to choose.

Am betting against OC, however. She'd be fun on the show, but that--I cannot see. (And don't want to.)
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
The third Q&A is up on the Venice site. I haven't watched it yet, and don't know when I will.

Oh, also, for those who don't read Crystal Chappell's tweets, she and JL are doing a podcast interview, hosted by Mimi Torchin, tomorrow at 6 pm eastern time. I have to admit, what I admire most about all of this is that the Otalia fans showed all the ways you can use web technology, and now CC is copying all those things but in ways that she can control, rather than having to rely on fans. So no more calling in to fan podcasts--she's got her own now. No more fan message boards--Venice has its community section. She doesn't even really have to do online chats, given what she can do on Twitter. Very impressive.
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molsongrrrl
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For those interested in the podcast, here is the link:

CC and JL Venice Podcast
There's nothing wrong with you that a little Prozac and a polo mallet can't cure.
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solitasolano
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abzug
 
Impressive.

Or to paraphrase a almost forgotten concept, to be independent you have to "own the means of production."

Impressive, yes, but is a 5 or 6 minute web episode starting to be lost amongst the rest of the Venice venues and hype. This week we have 4 + minutes of Q&A video, a hour or more podcast, an undetermined amount of time spent on solving the Gina love interest puzzle clue, and finally, the long awaited panties and things Venice Online Shoppe Grand Opening.
It occurred to me the web series in just marketing for CC, and by that I mean Crystal & Company. There’s nothing wrong with that. Good luck to them all. Six minute episodes seem a tad on the short side to me from what I have experienced viewing existing web series. I wish CC aka. Crystal and Company would just say, “pay for the webseries and we’ll make the episodes longer." I’d help then. I’m not interested in extras and bloopers. Just give me a good storyline, writing, and acting. Is that too much to ask?
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Sister, we are so on the same page it is not remotely funny. I woke up this morning writing a board-post in my head; part of it was in response to Abzug's post, which perhaps didn't say as much as it did. It made me think: are we Happy about this set of developments? Do we even care? Because the more advanced the ah, delivery systems become, the more corporate they're likely to be.

So yeah. I woke up & was thinking, is this really a choice, already, between art & commerce? "Own It"--words to choke on or get rich on? CC&Co. or CC3? I don't know. As spectacle I've begun to think the pre-show is in fact *the* show: what we're getting now might well be a lot more interesting that the show proper.

This very American mix of entertainment & money... sigh. It kills everything, one way or another. Or... gives it lumps, makes it deformed somehow.

So I agree with Solitasolano in every respect. Because--I swear--I woke up this morning thinking--exactly, exactly the same thing: Own the means of production.

This is not forgotten, as you suggest (at least not by people like myself, in business [kinda. sorta. whatev.]) I'd be willing to say there are only a few laws that work in an axiomatic way across the board, for all kinds of business. And that's one of them.

But it's a punishment to remember it, too... because it's simply not possible to implement any longer, on any sort of small or modest scale. There are only big fish left, when it comes to real money & power: that is in fact exactly what owning the means of production and Economies of Scale has gotten us. So every single tiny thing with a flash of originality or integrity gets snatched up, bastardized, eaten, consumed, spit out. All in a matter of moments, speaking relatively. People cannibalize themselves to get their 15 minutes, and then they're outta there, next act. All that.

So: own the means of production, Team Own It. ...all I can think is, this is Capitalism 101, alright. Well. Late capitalism. Which means we get to see the snake eatings its tail, as part of the spectacle.

[/end today's morose rant, i guess.]
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cagey
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In this conversation about ownership of the means of production, I think we need to remember that Venice is not a lesbian show. It is a show with some lesbian characters on it and some lesbians working on it, but it's not a webseries for the lesbian market. So CC&Co's definition of owning the process is probably not the same as ours. It's not like they are acting politically - like back in the day of vertical integration in the lesbian press and performer markets. They are owning it to take credit for it.

You are so right, and so delightfully political, ekny about the size of the market into which they are entering. One not only expects them to get swallowed, one almost hopes for it because I really cannot fathom how they are going to pull this off otherwise. And I do not want to see another sorry-assed sorry from a great lesbian oriented idea that got flushed.

Listened to the pocast. Couple of things I found interesting. First, GL is down the memory hole for both of them. Second, do you get the impression they have Not A Clue what they are doing with Venice? Snake swallowing its tail indeed. Also they came within inches of saying their characters "just happen to be" lesbians. I am sure that is coming - if anyone wants to lay down a marker against me on it, I'm open.

I am probably mis-remembering but did CC say something similar to what solitasolano said? That there was a lot of furor over something that was 5 minutes long? I'd go back and listen again but it was kind of boring. I did like the commentary about the message boards being so civilized and friendly and polite - just the virtual world CC would like to inhabit. I thought that sounded a whole lot like an anvil dropping - did anyone else hear it?
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solitasolano
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The Muppets!
cagey
 
Also they came within inches of saying their characters "just happen to be" lesbians. I am sure that is coming - if anyone wants to lay down a marker against me on it, I'm open.

Where have you been? This has always been their disclaimer, posted here in V-Team's first Q&A way back when on August 11th.

So yeah, I'll lay down my marker and call. :) Means cagey is back down to a choice of just one pair of V-panties from my tally of lost chits and bets. V-Store opens tomorrow. Be there or be square. he he.

About that anvil, does this mean that you suspect characters inhabiting Venice The Series will not be as nice and polite as the virtual twitter ones?
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Could someone post if there's a transcript that shows at some point? I'll look at it but that site is a total PITA, I can't be bothered trying to listen. Much less on dial-up. Thanks. :)

Political? Moi? :ph43r:
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abzug
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In love with a prisoner
Even ole cynical me got a kick out of each of them choosing the other as the female celebrity they'd most want to date. It was a very sweet (and I thought) sincere moment.

I'm with cagey about the fact that we actually WANT them to be successful among potential sponsors and other corporations because that's our best bet for the storytelling to continue beyond the first season. So it's definitely a catch-22. The problem is, if you want art for arts sake, in the performing arts world then you're stuck with opera, ballet or classical music, and even aficianados in those areas would complain that new work never gets produced because Mozart and Beethoven are such big money-makers.
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abzug
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cagey
 
It's not like they are acting politically - like back in the day of vertical integration in the lesbian press and performer markets. They are owning it to take credit for it.

I have a different interpretation of this. I agree that they aren't acting politically. But I think they are acting artistically. They're not owning it to take credit, or even to make big bucks. They're owning it to be able to decide what story to tell, and how to tell it (within their budget etc), rather than having to obey the whims of networks and sponsors. They've talked about artistic freedom in interviews again and again, and keeping costs down to maintain these artistic freedoms.

Given that two out of the three exec producers are lesbians, and their desire is for artistic freedom, I have a slightly more optimistic interpretation of the whole endeavor. It's not lesbian political separatism disguised as art. It's art which is trying to take a lesbian point of view (along with straight points of view) as its lens through which to tell a story.
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Jeanna
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
As the non-cynical one, so far, in this venue...I gotta stay outta this thread. I just had to look tho...darnit...since I was intrigued as to how y'all could possibly have this many pages of bi-...I mean discussion on something that hasn't even aired yet! Cagey, I think we listened to two different podcasts...or in alternate universes. <G>

{Fun Note: My beagle Wally heard there dogs barking in the background and howled throughout.}

I may be thankfully out of the twitter-verse for the most part and continue to hope and pray that it's mostly just a fad that will be replaced by something else in six months...but I can understand the desire to stay away from the more carping and negative (I hear Eyeore braying) message boards and within a more 'controlled' and benign (at least on the surface) though silly (that 40 per cent--and I think it's much more than that--"pointless babble") atmosphere.
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abzug
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I'll post this in the Otalia thread too. It's an interview with Crystal by that dude who writes the Soapgeist column for TV Guide Canada. I was underwhelmed, primarily because he spent way too much time fawning over her. A few newish tidbits, but otherwise same stuff as usual.
http://tvguide.ca/Soaps/Features/Articles/...chappell_NB.htm
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solitasolano
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From ekny's post in the GL/Otalia thread. Bringing it back to the Venice thread.
Quote:
 
They need to put out something substantive. A coming attraction, a trailer, something--anything. Soon.

What?! the V-Shoppe and pink lipped panties aren't enough for you? I think I owe cagey her pick. :silly

Okay, back to serious. I foresee production stills or short behind the scene vid clips of production filming which according to tweet?/interview?/I'm not sure what starts Oct 24th.

I haven't found any production credits for Kimmy T, so agreed, don't know what her writing is like. I did find some credits finally for Hope R including a screenplay entitled, The Mules, which was bought by US Films but never produced and a short. Did anyone catch the name/credit of the person CC mentioned in the podcast who is the Venice DP? He/she was AD or something on Arrested Development.

Jeanna come back. I left to surmise from your post that you are only interested in commenting on the actual product, ie. the 5-6 minute webepisode. Does that mean you, like me, aren't interested in bloopers or extras?
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ekny
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In love with a prisoner
Thanks Solitasolano, I dunno where my head was, posting stuff in the Otalia thread when it shoulda been here... sorry all! Deleted, cut, & moved here. Will now go back to my crypt. //

re Branco interview: snort:

TVG: The majority of message boards are very contentious, but Big Purple Dreams is a very peaceful forum because of the tyrranical imposition of unofficially enforced group standards to the exclusion of any form of public dissent everyone’s unconditional love for you.


This bit of extreme weirdness really stood out:

TVG: "Ellen Wheeler was running around like a mad woman doing everything from craft services to holding bible readings"

Wtf?


I'm just gonna say it, "metaphysical intimacy" pissed me off.

The stuff abt her past history was new. Dunno what to make of that.


Moving on:

So, I struggle with my cynicism abt this show. After decades of media-watching around the endless mess that is lesbian representation--just like everyone else here--I feel entitled to my reservations: I've earned them, the hard way. Just like everyone. Iow: they're more than justified. Esp given the recent unpleasantness.

I do think CC & Co. are perhaps making a strategic error: people cannot spin their wheels endlessly in mid-air for months. Not nowadays, not with this kind of saturation coverage. They need to put out something substantive. A coming attraction, a trailer, something--anything. Soon. Not 2 days before the first 5 minute episode airs. They should show part of what they intend to do, where we're going. Then we can talk about something real. Or more interesting than commerce.

I'm not requesting a kissing clip. At all. Just something. Otherwise, all we have to look at, ultimately... is marketing. Being cynical about marketing... isn't: merely realistic.


Re the podcasts, interviews, et al: I appreciate CC's motivation and the original impetus for trying to take this show on the road. As well, the need for some kind of integrity and control over your own product. But... thus far we got bupkiss. And... there we go with the wheel-spinning again, until we have something of substance to review.

Assuming CC & JL can act as other characters, & that the camerawork is... adequate (ie no worse than GL after-the-change)... that leaves the script. Has KT ever done this kind of writing, before? Can she pull that off? If so, maybe it'll be ok.
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cagey
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
ekny
 
Assuming CC & JL can act as other characters, & that the camerawork is... adequate (ie no worse than GL after-the-change)... that leaves the script. Has KT ever done this kind of writing, before? Can she pull that off? If so, maybe it'll be ok.


I expect the production values to be just fine. These people have lots of friends. Not worried about the scripting either. The marketing - I agree there will be more tidbits surfacing, more than the V Shoppe - which was delightfully unprofessional looking, I thought.

The part that keeps bothering me is a sense that the interpretation of lesbianism that is being created/promoted/invented here is one of romantic walks along the beach. Falling in love with a woman is just the first step on the road to becoming a lesbian. Certainly the overall story outline, as we know it, does have complexities regarding being a lesbian in a straight world, but between the podcast and that interview I am feeling a teensy bit manipulated and a larger bit like I just don't want to know anything more about CC and JL and their mutual non-sexual smoldering admiration. The merge between Otalia, CC/JL and Ani/Gina is getting just a bit odd. And I am not even reading the tweets.

Jeanna Come back! We're not trying to be cynical bastards here, we are practicing Lowered Expectations! By the time the thing is actually up on the web we will be happily commenting on shoes.
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