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| Downton Abbey; here we go again... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2011, 04:23 PM (2,394 Views) | |
| mlbach | Jan 12 2011, 04:23 PM Post #1 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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Just when I thought things were improving on the media front, gay and lesbian-wise, we are being served up a new Masterpiece Theater offering: Downton Abbey. It seems to be a 40 year anniversary attempt to recreate the popularity of one of the original hits, Upstairs, Downstairs. One of the stars is Joanne Froggatt (Rachel Hicks), which is nice. But then we are subjected to two of the more odious characters, a footman and a duke who is a possible heir, who are, of course (wait for it), gay. Now all we need are a ball-crushing lesbian character, with a demented lesbian maid (a la Rebecca), and the cast will be complete.
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| whoopicat | Jan 13 2011, 12:06 PM Post #2 |
whoopicat
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Hello... sorry you didn't enjoy 'Downton Abbey'. I will watch anything with Dame Maggie Smith in and this did not disappoint - she 'stole' every scene she was in!Er, Department of Confusion here: Downton Abbey was written as a drama entirely unconnected with 'Upstairs Downstairs' . I think you are thinking about the recent reprise of U/D to mark the 40 year anniversary, which starred Jean Marsh who with her friend Dame Eileen Atkins had the idea for the drama over 40 years ago. I believe that both the actresses' Mothers had been 'in Service', and so they were drawing on material that they were familiar with. Downton Abbey revolves around an Aristocratic family who have a Stately Home,an Estate etcetera... so, a 'step-up' if you like from U/D! The writer behind Downton Abbey is Julian Fellowes (the Oscar writer winner) whose own background is what we plebs call 'POSH'. He writes what he knows about as all good writers do. His wife was a lady in waiting for our present Queen. Fellowes himself has a beautiful Historical home - just some miles from where I live... he has/is restoring it for posterity. And I'll just add, he is a thoroughly: 'nice bloke'. The 'gay' character was (to my mind) included not out of 'tokenism' , as you seem to suggest, but as an accurate reflection of the mix of people employed as Servants in a large Household. It is known that the late Queen Mother's trusted butler/friend of many years was gay, other staff too - perhaps because gay men are less likely to have the additional 'tie' wife and family.... But I like to think that The Q.M. enjoyed the 'campery' and respected the loyalty. I'm looking forward to the next series - more Maggie Smith and Penny Wilton .... Oh Yes!
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| mlbach | Jan 13 2011, 04:04 PM Post #3 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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Hi, whoopicat, Didn't say I didn't enjoy it. I was just dismayed that the only two gay characters (as far as we know) are also baddies. It seemed to be harking back to the old dramatic formula: gay=bad. Think Scar in The Lion King, Baron Harkonnen in Dune, Rebbeca and Mrs. Danvers in Rebecca...the list goes on and on. I had hoped for better after Bad Girls... You're right, Maggie Smith did steal every scene she was in. And wasn't it nice to see Rachel finally standing up for herself? :lol: I'm sure I'll be watching every week. Doesn't mean I'll stop b*tching about it, though :rolleyes: |
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| whoopicat | Jan 14 2011, 12:04 AM Post #4 |
whoopicat
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Hello again, glad that you did enjoy D/A. Yes, Joanne Frogatt has become a versatile and popular actor and is often on the television in different roles. I do understand about your 'watch-out' for almost 'gratuitous' negative stereotyping of lesbian and gay characters. I'm not sure that was the intent with D/A... Tell you what I get MAD about ... when books with a strong lesbian/gay content are made into movies where that content is either very under played or else absent ... I'm thinking about "Fried Green Tomatoes" and "The Color Purple" for starters !!!! |
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| mlbach | Jan 14 2011, 12:53 AM Post #5 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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I agree, the lesbian content was understated in both those films. I'm willing to cut them some slack considering the time that they were produced--20 years ago for Fried Green Tomatoes and 26 for The Color Purple. That's a generation ago. Downton Abbey has no such excuse. I concede that queer folk can be just as mean and nasty as anybody; I just don't want that to be seen as all we are. ![]() Beware, D/A: I will be watching... :ph43r: |
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| yankeelady | Jan 18 2011, 02:25 AM Post #6 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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Don't be so hard on' Downton Abbey'.... Upstairs...Downstairs was a valid storyline probably through WWII. Julian Fellowes also wrote 'Gosford Park' ... he knows what he's talking about. If you look at a timeline (there are some slight differences between some of them), Oscar Wilde spent 2-years at hard labor in 1929. Flash forward to 1954 and you have Alan Turing committing suicide when given the choice between jail time and hormone treatments. If I have my timeline relatively straight (no pun intended), homosexual acts between men were still illegal until 1994. It makes perfectly good sense that titled men would stay in the closet and be fair prey for servants like Thomas. It seems the wealthy always like to have their cake and eat it too... If the truth be known, some wealthy women probably wouldn't mind a gay husband since it gave them a little more freedom. I can't quite remember what year it was, but the attempt to add lesbianism to a list of crimes in the UK punishable by prison failed in the early 20's. Nor do I think it unusual to find a microcosm of behavior in the downstairs environment...made worse by its confines and the tendency of some to live vicariously through their association with the upstairs. Removing yourself from service voluntarily was an act of bravery not done lightly. If you're a fan of the original "Upstairs-Downstairs"...remember Edward who couldn't quite make it on the outside, and who came back into service under the tutelage of Mr. Hudson. |
| Nikki...Don't get jealous... | |
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| mlbach | Jan 19 2011, 01:01 AM Post #7 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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I'm enjoying it! I'm enjoying it! To repeat: I just have a hard time with the only two gay characters in the show being bad. I don't care if they're closeted. I don't care if they're conflicted. I don't care if they're filled with self-loathing. Just don't make them unredeemably bad, if they are the only two in the show. Or--give us more gay characters. I like the idea of a wealthy woman who is glad her husband is gay (especially if she herself is lesbian, but that's probably asking too much). And I loved Gosford Park. |
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| ekny | Feb 26 2011, 09:17 PM Post #8 |
In love with a prisoner
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mlbach, hiya... I've been thinking about this & am sort of torn. Well, not *torn* because that indicates drama on behalf of gay men, and a) they can take care of that themselves, and b ) I just don't care that much about their representation; their "equal" is a lot more equal than ours. All of those (very) contentious issues aside, however, I have to wonder where the story came from; is it some kind of adaptation? Because what I'm thinking is: pretend Brideshead Revisited was about... lesbians. Imagine how we'd have reacted. Imagine how we'd react 40 years later (or whatever) to a remake. I suppose implicit in these questions are: when, if ever, are political responses to art "valid"? --e (...skuttles away having opened fine kettle of fish etc etc. sneerk.) |
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| Jeanna | Mar 1 2011, 03:47 AM Post #9 |
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I said SIT IN THAT CHAIR
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PBS is rerunning this already (because it was hugely popular) and I'm finally getting to watch. The clandestine gay men remind me, among many such reminders, of a similar dynamic (titled gentleman and his subservient valet) from "Upstairs, Downstairs." This beautifully produced program seems a very deliberate attempt (and a good one at that) of recapturing what enthralled audiences 40 (!) years ago about that original series. The 'master/servant' relationship then did not end at all well. Servant killed sadistic master and was hanged for it. Geez, at least maybe they won't die this time...if that's to be any sort of consolation...or evolving of the usual storyline concerning gay characters. I don't think this is adapted from anything. I believe it is actor ("Monarch of the Glen") and novelist Julian Fellowes' own creation, he who won an Oscar for the "Gosford Park" screenplay. |
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H&N Music Vid by me and ekny Something To Talk About YouTube My BG Music Vids On YouTube My vids You Tube removed Click Here OR HERE BAM for Beginners BAM Channel | |
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| mlbach | Mar 7 2011, 11:38 PM Post #10 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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Missed your replies, ekny and Jeanna (that's what I get for not clicking the tracking box!). I blush to admit I haven't seen "Upstairs, Downstairs," but it is on my "to see" list. And you're right, ekny, the gay boys can definitely take care of themselves. |
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| cagey | Mar 11 2011, 03:52 AM Post #11 |
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G3 Curtain and Duvet!
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More fish, always looking for more fish!. I bet there is a novel out there waiting to be written by some Lesbian Until Graduation type. But to return to mlbach's initial quandary - I am guessing the issue is really when are queers in a show just queers and when are they there as symbols is the problem. Ya got your classic lesbians as stand-ins for something unspeakable, as in The Children's Hour. Interesting that sexual deviance was a more acceptable topic than political ideology. On the other hand, you got your pissed off lesbians who murder their lovers, as per that last year's ep of Criminal Minds (or whatever show it was.) with absolutely no symbolism The artist's background and beliefs certainly are reflected in the art they produce - and Brideshead is a distinct reflection of Waugh's youthful "experimentation" and his later Catholicism. And its time and place, wherein being gay wasn't socially acceptable. We don't have a lesbian equivalent, but how it would be received is an excellent question. The few lesbian novels/memoirs from that Brideshead period haven't exactly been fodder for the films. Can you imagine a BBC Well of Loneliness? So what to make of Downton? Rest of the downstairs seems to accept Thomas' sexual proclivities in a very contemporary way but we now know Thomas is a cad to both sexes. So is he not really a member of the team but actually a mercenary? Was he pretending to be gay to get the better deal with the rich dude & thereby taking advantage of poor gay rich dude stifled by society? Or is he both evil and gay - therefore possibly conflating the two states of being? And would Fellowes, presumably straight, writing right now in this day even be able to see that as a sticking point for gay watchers of his series? After all, the show goes out of its way to include the Votes for Women and Mr. Sensitive Male Chauffeur. He is writing a period piece that replays and rewrites history for the better consumption of a contemporary audience. Why not include the gays? One of the best examples of that, for me, is the first, brilliant, version of Forsyte Saga and the second almost 40 years later. The first, produced in the late sixties, had a very female positive and political edge. The second, produced in 21st century was far more interested in the Money, Power and subjugating its women. |
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| mlbach | Mar 12 2011, 03:09 PM Post #12 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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(Took awhile to figure out why cagey was going on about fish...very tricksy, yes, Precious...!) OK--that's 2 more productions on my "must see" list. So, yeah, what she said. And I'll comment again once I've seen them. Not to be confused with mid-terms or finals or anything. smirk. |
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| ekny | Mar 19 2011, 05:35 PM Post #13 |
In love with a prisoner
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Hm. Well, when it reaches this level I suppose the Question of Characterization hard to argue with; see ~2:35: hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dMlXentLw&feature=player_embedded ...where the manservant sticks out his foot, trips the hapless footman (or whatever his position is) with the limp, and lisps to the audience: Whoops! I'm so evil, before whipping his head around screen-right & whisking himself offstage. |
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| mlbach | Dec 9 2012, 06:20 PM Post #14 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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Yeah, that was pretty funny. So, is it just me, or does anyone else think of the Mary Tyler Moore Show when they hear the DA theme music?
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| mlbach | Apr 13 2014, 01:41 AM Post #15 |
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Keys for the handcuffs!
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And the X-Files... |
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Hello... sorry you didn't enjoy 'Downton Abbey'. I will watch anything with Dame Maggie Smith in and this did not disappoint - she 'stole' every scene she was in!

8:45 AM Jul 11