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frozen feet
Topic Started: Jan 6 2014, 10:48 PM (1,136 Views)
Master Skywalker
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Wow, can't say I even you with those temperatures... down here we're freezing when it's 30 degrees outside!
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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Now Victor has frostbite too! Zephyr - I'd had a problem with him spraying, but Victor has never been a problem that way!

Since Victor's cage tray was frozen in, I moved him into Zephyr's empty cage. Something about that cage is jinxed!

It's in the middle of the row, so I can't see how it would be colder than any other. The floor is clean. Only thing I can think of is that Della - the 8 month old angora doe that SERIOUSLY want to be bred - is in the next cage. Would they be pee-ing on themselves to 'show off' for her?

That cage is now empty. Victor is in on the porch with Zephyr. Poor baby can barely walk -- clear his feet hurt. Hopefully he gets better as quickly as Zephyr did (Zephyr stopped acting like his feet hurt after the first 24 hours - full recovery is going to take a long time).
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NCK
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that. Poor Victor! I have no idea what would cause frost bite other than him peeing on himself, as you said. Hopefully he will recover and start to feel better quickly, now that he's a little warmer:)
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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the cold has to stop. ranging 10 to 20 below the last couple of days. water is even freezing overnight on my 3-season porch (first that's happened in 12 years we've lived here) - which is where I have the frostbite victims recovering. Hoping that isn't hampering their recovery.

Vern - my third angora buck did the same thing. fortunately, caught him in time -- he must have done it just before I found him. He was soaked, but not frozen - so I was able to clean him up, dry him thoroughly, and get him back outside.

Moonrise - my son's minirex showmanship doe was limping. So we brought her in the house. I don't see anything wrong with her feet, but she's staying in the house at least until the show on Saturday.

Moonshadow - a castor minirex buck (another one of my son's, but one he has listed for sale) is also in the house. Found him hunched in the corner of the cage and lethargic last night. Hypothermic with his ears SO cold and his sides looked sunken in. I thought we were going to lose him for sure when we were warming him up. I've never seen a rabbit go so completely limp. No control of his neck muscles or anything. Jillian held him for about an hour until he regained some control and was sitting up. He went through 3 full cups of water overnight (empty every time I checked him - and the dish is clipped to the cage, so he didn't just spill it). That got rid of the sunken look. He's nibbling at food and no sign of frostbite, but not acting normal yet.

Wish I could bring them all in. But there just isn't any way to do that.

Oh - and Allison's goat has gone into false labor twice now. She shouldn't be due for another week, so my fingers are crossed that it warms up again before she delivers. We aren't set up well for January babies. (Long story there, Allison had someone who was going to buy her - but they wanted her bred to Alli's buck first - so she bred the goat, then they backed out of the sale).
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ZRabbits
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Sorry to hear about the affects of this cold weather is having on your rabbits. Hoping all of them are on the mend.

Fingers crossed also for Allison's goat. Hoping all goes well.

KAZ
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NeuBunny
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Moonrise seemed perfectly fine by the next morning -- but she is staying in through the show tomorrow. If it warms up Sunday (as the forecast says it will) she can go back to the barn.

Moonshadow took longer - and still going through large quantities of water (dish is always half gone within minutes of refilling). But otherwise back to normal and he can transition to the back porch with the two who have frostbite.

I'm leaving the door to the back porch cracked open -- which is adding just enough heat to keep it back above freezing. After the second day of finding ice on those dishes, it seemed like feet were regressing again.
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sidd-says-gimme
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Yikes - hope this stops happening and that the affected will feel better soon.
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NeuBunny
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Vern is back in. I feel so guilty for not just keeping him in the other day - and for not checking him thoroughly Friday night (getting the kids ready for Saturday's 4H show, was so hectic, he seemed OK, but I didn't actually pull him out of the cage and inspect his feet) - or at all Saturday morning (we had to be on the road by 6am - so Jillian just got water to all the bunnies quick while Josh and I got his guinea pigs). He has two small spots of frostbite on his back feet - not as bad as the other two. But he also has a larger spot on top of one of his front feet that is bright red and clearly painful. My first time hearing a bunny scream -- I had brought him in the house in a carrier, then given him a little time to warm up while we got all the show stuff put away - I think he had fallen asleep - when I picked up the carrier to move him to the bathroom (for bathing drying and medicine) he went off balance and must have bumped that foot.

Of all the bunnies, Vern is the one who trusts me absolutely. Never more clear to me than when I was giving him his bath and cleaning him up. He was a bit freaked by the water (all of them have been), but so long as I was touching him he would stay calm. Move my hand away to reach for something and he would get agitated. I laid him flat on his back with his head in my lap to dry his tummy -- I could work with both hands - he would just stay so still for me with 4 paws in the air. He didn't want me to touch the hurt front paw, but let me get the medicine on it. Not so much as one scratch the whole process (my wrists look awful from tending Vern and Zephyr - who both hate the 'upside down' part of grooming under normal circumstances - and aren't at all cooperative about getting medicine on sore feet). When I went to put him in the cage on the porch, I set him on a towel in front of the cage - he hopped in, but the resting mat skidded a bit -- he practically flew back out into my arms. I felt so bad putting him back in the cage.

Meanwhile, Zephyr and Victor both look worse last night than they had. Somebody shut the porch door while we were out yesterday (husband and younger daughter were home) and it got really cold on the porch again (though the water dishes weren't frozen) - or maybe with everything so hectic they weren't totally dry after their Friday night bath -or maybe because I ran out of Neosporin and switched back to bag balm. After an exhausting (but happy) day at the show I was pretty much in tears last night.
Edited by NeuBunny, Jan 26 2014, 06:34 AM.
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ZRabbits
Love My Lions!
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Truly sorry to hear of the continued problems with frostbite in your herd.

This extreme cold is just wreaking havoc here with Jake. Not to a point of frost bite, but at his age, he's having problems walking as it is, but coming in from just a short time outside, his pads are so cold to a point of numbness and he can't even move (feel his feet). We have had to pick him up, place him on a rug and then warm his feet.

Can understand the tears at the end of the day. Glad to see the edit of "happy". This extreme weather and seeing the affects it's bringing to your cherished herd (all your animals) is very exhausting.

My thoughts are with you and yours. Take care and hang in there. The light at the end of this tunnel is called Spring.

KAZ

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NeuBunny
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Incidentally - Alli's goat appears to have been a false pregnancy - passed a lot of fluid/discharge, but no baby and labor stopped. We still had her on watch, but she let herself out of the kidding pen (must have jumped it) and we found her back in with the rest of the herd. Unless she passed it outside somewhere (they do have access to the pasture, though they haven't been going out lately with the snow), there wasn't a baby. Perhaps for the best...I worry about how to keep babies warm enough in March.

Thanks Z - It was a happy day for the most part. Sometimes I have to really work at not letting a bad part at the end of a day 'erase' the good earlier. Especially when I'm tired.
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ZRabbits
Love My Lions!
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Sorry to hear about Ali's goat. With you regarding maybe it's for the best. Definitely would be hard keeping babies warm in this weather. Just sounds like a bad experience from Day One. Getting her pregnant, then the sale falling through. Hopefully she'll be fine now that she passed everything?

Understand, about being tired and tending to focus on the bad. It is good though when you push yourself a little further, though tired to focus on the good. Find out it outweigh the bad 9 times out of 10. Good to hear (reading your other thread) that you made that push and found that happy, which IMHO was big for you and your children.

Hoping things turn around in the sick ward for your rabbits. Feel your pain on hearing Vern scream. Definitely heart wrenching. Please keep us updated.

KAZ
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sidd-says-gimme
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So sorry! Would it be at all possible to get a small space heater for the porch while your bunnies are in there? Last year I picked one up for about $20 and it works well in small-ish spaces. Either way, it would warm it up.
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NeuBunny
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So long as I keep the door to the house cracked, it stays around 40 degrees out there. The space heater only has on/off option and quickly warms it too much (into the 70 degree range). I'm trying to keep them above freezing, but cold enough to not promote bacteria growth - I think the biggest risk as they heal from frostbite is the possibility of secondary infections setting in on the raw tissue. I'm trying to keep the cage insides really clean -- debating spraying them down with betadine -- don't want them damp, but the additional anti-bacterial would be good.

One section of Zephyr's foot -- where the frost bite had peeled away (peeled off like a scab) revealing fresh pink skin underneath -- is all puffy this morning, very worried that it might be infected. I picked up a tube of Neosporin with painkiller (ran out of the regular kind, and that's all the local convenience store had -- roads are icy so I didn't want to run all the way to the feed store or pharmacy) - it's more of a cream than the gel like the regular. Must be working well as they are more active than they had been (usually they just sit still, probably once they find a comfortable position they don't want to move their feet much. Anyway, if the swelling in Zephry's pad hasn't gone down by tonight, I'm going to pull out the injectable antibiotic (we have some from when the goats were sick last fall) and figure out the dosage and give him that.

Incidentally, for anyone else dealing with frostbite ...
- bag balm helps to soften the blackened tissue and help it pull away - but it's not good at all on the fresh pink skin - and impossible to get down into the skin if there is still significant fur.
- prep H is better - just as good at softening the blackened skin but much better for protecting the pink tissue - and easier to work in.
- Neosporin (regular) is also really good - seems to be the best for promoting healing - especially if you can work it in under the edges of loosening black tissue. Also hard to work into the fur.
- The calf wound care spray is too liquid. It seemed really good for working in through the fur, but took forever to dry enough to put them back on the porch - and even then it left the fur all sticky.
- soaking feet in epsom salt water seems to give them good short-term relief (they are much more active for a while after soaking) - as well as getting down into the skin beneath fur - but also takes a LONG time (over an hour blow drying each bunny) to get the wool dry again (soaking feet gets the whole stomach wet too). I'm also not sure whether that might be what brought on the 'puffiness' in Zephyr's healing skin.
- jury still out on the Neosporin plus pain killer. Was relatively easy to work into the fur, and seems to give them significant relief (hopping more) but went on 'wetter' so I'm a little nervous about it.

I'm treating feet twice a day, every day. Rotating products as I figure out what works best. Bath/soaking feet I can't manage for all three every day - but if I notice someone has a damp underside or feet (Zephyr still thinks he needs to pee on himself and Victor still plays in his water dish - lesson not learned) they get bathed and groomed asap.
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sidd-says-gimme
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sidd says stay gold
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Thanks for the pointers - I have never dealt with frostbite so I wasn't sure. Great advice... it's hard to know what to do in that situation. Fingers crossed.
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NeuBunny
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This is my first time dealing with it - and not finding a lot of tested advice. I'm basically trying everything anyone has suggested - and otherwise treating as an extreme case of sore hocks.
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