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Harlequin Genetics, thus far
Topic Started: Jan 26 2014, 05:53 PM (2,351 Views)
HRoberts
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POWITH!!
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wildrabbits
Mar 15 2015, 11:26 PM
Hmm do you happen to have any idea how dutch carries along with harlequin when crossing to an Aa-Ee rabbit? I am not really even sure how dutch looks with the different A locus genes.. I will also be crossing an A_Eej with an Aa-Ee and the third will be I think A_eje with A_Ee.
I don't have any experience with this, but would imagine you'd end up with similar to what you get with those combinations in harlequin, only with the dutch markings. You -may- get more clarity, some argue that the dutch spotting is what gives you clarity of marking with the harlequins, but it is never that simple. I think dutch spotting modifiers may influence clarity w/ japanese gene, or perhaps various other genes that come along with the territory of dutch spotting. Have seen plenty of white toed kits with terrible clarity, and even the harlequin dutch don't always have good clarity. There does seem to be a link of some sort though, as if you have a terribly brindled litter and one really well marked kit there is a huge chance that kit has a white toe (or will have kits with white toes). Again, I don't think it's the dutch gene itself but another gene that is either a modifier to dutch or just close to it.
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sidd-says-gimme
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Very very interesting, looking forward to seeing pictures!
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HendricksHearth
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HRoberts
Mar 21 2015, 11:06 PM
MAJOR revelation today. Have been trying to figure out what the heck is going on with all these "torted Agoutis" that we have been seeing! Really had me discouraged - we have agouti looking animals yet they have smut!

Well, found out today (test mating) they aren't Agouti, they're TAN!!! This whole time I've been working to get some tan lines into the program to play with and then I turn around they've been there the whole time! One of our major brood does has a litter with one self kit and a bunch of little otters (bred to a black Havana)... So exciting! Now I'm going back through old photos and having tons of "AHA" moments.

I will get some photos over the next few days of more of these torted-tan-harlequins :D I'm super excited to finally be getting somewhere! Woohoo!
Awesome detective work! I feel like you have been doing a major service to our breed and to rabbit genetics overall through your willingness to experiment and document results objectively. Thank you for this! :)
Lauren @ Hendricks' Hearth
http://www.hendrickshearth.weebly.com
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wildrabbits
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...
Attached to this post:
Attachments: CIMG3287.jpg (166.1 KB)
Edited by wildrabbits, Jun 24 2015, 09:52 AM.
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HRoberts
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Here are a couple of our "Foxequin"s.... Suspected genotype Ataeje...

RAF M1R1
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Hardway Docynia
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And a Fox kit... Suspected genotype Ataee...
Sorry about the two poor quality photos my camera settings were terrible - I had to reset them. The last photo is him from a video shot the next day w/ camera fixed. He looks like a torted Agouti.
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And some Tan-harlequins... Genotype AtaEej...
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And this doe... She was hiding this secret the whole time!
Hardway Matricaria
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"Who, me?"
Edited by HRoberts, Mar 22 2015, 06:08 PM.
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NeuBunny
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Love those 'aha' moments! Glad you figured it out -- and have the photo documentation to go back through to really see what that all means!
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HRoberts
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Yes! I am on the fence - keep that fox kit and test mate him further to confirm he's not eje (and just has no markings), or preserve him as a flat skin specimen for future reference (at this age)....

And of these current animals we also have several photos of ear tips, eye circles, nostrils, etc. :D
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wildrabbits
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HRoberts
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wildrabbits
Mar 24 2015, 11:37 AM
Great pics and progression here Hroberts, I still can't help but wonder how all the differing genes interact with one another as opposed to truebreeding colors..Quite a bit of work and many answers I look forward to! =)
Not sure what you mean here.. these colors are true breeding, with the exception of the "foxequins". If I bred foxes together, I'd get more foxes (and possibly torts), but if I bred the "foxequins" together I'd get foxes, (possibly torts), more foxequins, and tortequins.

The agouti, self and tan harlequins will breed true - all will look like harlequins as long as you have double japanese genes. I have many animals with only a single japanese gene (mostly due to outcrosses and test matings - it's easier for me to distinguish agouti vs. self (and now vs. tan, that I know what I'm looking at) if I only have one japanese gene in the mix.
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HRoberts
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I should add, those two "foxequin" does above could be atateje, they are not old enough yet to be test bred but they will be. The herd is fairly inbred at this point so there is certainly the possibility of them getting the tan gene from both parents. All animals photo'd above trace back to a single Harlequin buck, which must have been ataejej.
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wildrabbits
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By true breeding colors I am referring to pairings producing only atatejej OR only aaejej offspring for different marking comparisons. I am sure true breeding atatejej would look quite a bit different than ataeje for example and the latter would have that much more color/marking diversity among its offspring
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reh
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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Why are you thinking this?
www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes
www.satinangora.de
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HRoberts
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wildrabbits
Mar 31 2015, 02:00 PM
By true breeding colors I am referring to pairings producing only atatejej OR only aaejej offspring for different marking comparisons. I am sure true breeding atatejej would look quite a bit different than ataeje for example and the latter would have that much more color/marking diversity among its offspring
No they would not look any different. The only difference we are seeing when you have a single japanese and a single non-extension in combination with tan (or self). Double japanese and single tan are appearing the same as double japanese and one tan.

On another note, I am seeing that the "agouti-like" markings on the ej_ rabbits seem to really come and go with different stages of development. Hardway Asterid looked 100% self at ~3mo of age, but now as a senior she has returned to her agouti eye rings. She just had her test mating litter - all tans tans and agoutis.
Edited by HRoberts, Apr 7 2015, 10:48 AM.
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HRoberts
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Somewhat frustrating... Every time I think I've got an animal figured out with these genes they throw me a curve ball. Hardway Asterid, a doe that I thought was a self, had a little of kits that looked like tans and now prove to be a mix of tans and agoutis. -le sigh-

ETA: she was bred to a self buck, so the A series of the kits directly reflects her...
Edited by HRoberts, Apr 7 2015, 10:50 AM.
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twr
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Did you show us pictures of asterid earlier in the thread? The name sounded familar but when I searched I didn't find anything.

Am I right to assume that when you had asterid pegged as self, she looked aaeje, with a clearly tort element to her pattern?
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