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Harlequin Genetics, thus far
Topic Started: Jan 26 2014, 05:53 PM (2,349 Views)
HRoberts
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POWITH!!
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It is rather common, even in purebred Harlequins, to have no face markings. These are known as "baldies" and while many breeders cull them, they can indeed produce split faced kits consistently. It's a gamble. Some bloodlines seem to have almost eliminated them, ending up with a consistent litters with at least some markings on the face, and other bloodlines the baldies are the overwhelming number of kits kindled. For most lines, it's a mix.
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twr
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In the lines with extra baldies, are they black-faced, orange-faced or a mix?
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wildrabbits
Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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From my newest litter I would guess these "baldies" just have the main body color type on the face as opposed to having the ej alternating coloration on the face if that makes sense. My main magpie and harli are as such(without much of the ej alteration on face). I am pretty sure they are both ata-eje genotypes though...My theory is ata wont ever have a proper face split
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wildrabbits
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It just occurred to me that the fawn and pearl from my flemish hybrid litter are just by phenotype and are actually eje with no visible ej markings as has been mentioned previously from other's experiences. There is only one e gene between both the parents so none of the babies could be an ee genotype
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wildrabbits
Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Do ej color markings typically start half way up the hair passed the undercoat or are they suppose to start from the undercoat going all the way up the hair?
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reh
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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They always start on the tip as this is where hair starts growing :-).
In eJeJ / eJe it should be a black hair (color may fade at the base), in eJE it would look like a steel rabbit in this color.
www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes
www.satinangora.de
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HRoberts
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twr
May 17 2015, 08:49 AM
In the lines with extra baldies, are they black-faced, orange-faced or a mix?
Predominantly orange/fawn faced on the baldies, but that may be inadvertently selected for by us breeders looking for clarity of color. A judge will favor an animal with too much orange with clean black stripes over an animal with too much black and clean orange stripes. So then it seems that most harlequins then look like they have an orange "base" with black stripes, and it's rarer to see an animal that is mostly/all dark. Thus it would be rarer to see a bald-faced animal that was more black and would have a black face.

And you can have split faces with ataeje.
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HRoberts
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Actually, the female that is right now my avatar is ataejej.
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wildrabbits
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I could see your avatar being ata but notice how the black twists at the top? I think that twist may directly be from the tan (at) gene. The dark smudging on the other side of the face looks like it would be from the self (a) gene.

My first flemish litter had the face split twist with the (at) gene. The (a) gene expresses smudging on the lower parts of rabbits and always has a distinct horizontal side stripe on every Aa colored rabbit I have ever had without ej.

The baldies however kinda have me lost as far as studying the phenotypes for eje gene types from my new litter. Baldies makes this whole japanese gene that much more elusive to me than the standard explanation of how it is carried..again this only makes it seem like it carries on as a different gene series like ENen...I have never heard of any dominant gene that hides its expression to a recessive gene as this can...
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wildrabbits
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I should point out that there hasn't been ANY visible markings to suggest the pearl or the fawn from my newest litter were eje..its as if ej was hidden like a complete recessive gene for those two rabbits..
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wildrabbits
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Aatchd_Eej X AaC_Ee= 1 fawn(eje), 1 pearl(eje), 1 harli, 2 black silver marten, 1 chestnut, 1 cinnamon?, 1 harli cinnamon/tort?, 1 lilac chinchilla, 1 magpie from surviving litter of kits. Eej X Ee= EE, Eej, Ee, and eje only...

This is the puzzle of my litter..ee looking rabbit coming from no where. Unless Aateje genotypes specifically interact to hide harli markings I am lost...
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wildrabbits
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This site tells examples of differing A and E series gene mixes for ej and seems fairly insightful.

http://minifluffsrabbitry.weebly.com/rabbit-color-genetics-101.html

Please feel free to share any and all thoughts
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reh
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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Maybe it helps if you get an understanding how E and A work together in the pigment type switching mechanism.
http://s4.zetaboards.com/Rabbit_Addict/topic/9911326/1/

Its always a good idea to look up what Roy Robinson write about a color: http://lit.rabbitcolors.info/

F.e. he wrote EseJ is "agouti-black" (thats like in ESES), whereas EeJ dont look agouti/black like proposed in your link but agouti/steel: Posted Image.
I think the odds are high that the color descriptions in the table of Robinson are actual colors, not "calculated" ones as i suppose them to be in the link.

Cells supposed to make yellow pigment in mice seems to have a survival advantage resulting in better proliveration or quicker migrating or something similar, resulting in f.e. fewer white in yellow broken mice.
I think the gepard like appearance of En tricolors (dark dots on yellow base) has the same cause, but this normally dont show (or at least not very visible) on solid or dutch spotted japaneses. Posted Image
In contrast to du much fewer cells arrive in the skin in En spotted rabbits, but there they develop normally, which magnifies this effect due to the bigger area populated by descendants of this few cells (they dont change color during subsequent cell division).

I dont think this influences color distribution on face of ateJ rabbits.
Edited by reh, May 26 2015, 03:59 AM.
www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes
www.satinangora.de
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HRoberts
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And the japanese gene (or most other genes) didn't read the book on what it was supposed to do. I think saying something like "patches of black and patches of agouti" is far too simplistic.

In addition, I haven't ever seen a true black on agouti Eej. Every one I have seen so far is still just agouti, but the black bands are extended in the "black" areas, so it's still an agouti hair, still banded, just appears much darker. The extent of this black band manipulation is clearly under the control of many other genes/factors. I have seen some that look completely wild type from afar, you have to know what to look for to start seeing the distinct patches (although on certain areas like the chin it is usually much easier to tell). Others look like the kit that was in the link above - very clear!
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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Wildrabbits ... I wrote that page based on what I learned from reh and others here ... I still don't think I have the descriptions of ej quite right...(or Es either).

reh ... could you perhaps share here the poster that you sent me a few years ago... the diagrams at the bottom of that made more sense of how ej works than anything I've seen before or since. lol -- maybe you can add something to it to show how at works in this system...



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