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| Harlequin Genetics, thus far | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 26 2014, 05:53 PM (2,347 Views) | |
| HRoberts | Jun 3 2015, 11:00 AM Post #121 |
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POWITH!!
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80r2YM_GPsNMmNsZTROVXZYbkU/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80r2YM_GPsNUWhDbDRNX245b1E/view?usp=sharing No. They aren't brindled, they just look like steels. This kit is ~4wks old I think in this photo (he is at the other half of Hardway Harlequins, I can ask her the exact age when the photo was taken). He would be At_CcEsej. Looks like a lightly marked steel at his age. If he matures like the others with this genotype have for us (the A or At (possibly AtA), Esej) he will continue to develop his ticking. It is possible he would have areas that are not ticked, though we have not seen that. However it could also be possible that he has harlequins "bars" of solid (black in this case) but those bars are small/being missed. Edited by HRoberts, Jun 3 2015, 11:01 AM.
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| reh | Jun 4 2015, 06:06 AM Post #122 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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Genetic mosaic was my way to say its a mosaic of two genetic different variants, f.e. from fusing of two embryos or by loosing the functional gene in f.e. a Dd rabbit) This is not inheritable. Not sure, what you mean with the lilac rabbit ... The broken gene changes color distribution, so that there are fewer melanocytes arrive in the skin, but there they populate the skin in the normal way, forming bigger clusters of color in rabbits with different color producing melanozytes. The neck triangle appears in agouti and tan/otter. No gene combination causes a split in a distinct place. This appears more or less by chance during migration. But as EeJ gives a japanese like coloring it may have a split on back line as well. Regarding EseJ - this images for me looks like this agouti-blacks Robinsons described. A true ESE steel is lighter, isnt it? |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| HRoberts | Jun 4 2015, 07:54 AM Post #123 |
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POWITH!!
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A lot goes into how light an EsE would be, but at this age they tend to be dark like this. The gold tips are harder to see anyway, even some true EsE adults you can barely tell they're there. I was curious as to how steel would interact with the tan gene - the buck is suspected as _aESE and the doe is At*ejej on this breeding, so it's possible this kit could be AtaEsE. *Have to check with Rhonda on this doe's test mate litter, I think she threw only tans. |
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| reh | Jun 5 2015, 02:28 AM Post #124 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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This is an atEsE rabbit (no back ticking at all - its expected so from at):
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| HRoberts | Jun 5 2015, 07:34 AM Post #125 |
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POWITH!!
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Thank you That would make the buck A_EsE (I think Aa if I remember his other litters correctly), the doe Ataejej. This kit would then be either AAtEsej or AaEsej.
Edited by HRoberts, Jun 5 2015, 12:01 PM.
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| reh | Jun 5 2015, 09:36 AM Post #126 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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the a in at has to be a small letter :-) If "the kit" is the one pictured, it cannot be eJeJ. |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| HRoberts | Jun 5 2015, 12:01 PM Post #127 |
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POWITH!!
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Ah yes thanks for catching that Fixed
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| wildrabbits | Jun 6 2015, 10:07 PM Post #128 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Here are some current notes on my litter at just over 7w/o which may or may not help define anything. Black silver marten=Nothing ej distinguishable atachd_E_ Black otter=Nothing ej distinguishable ataC_E "Fawn"=No dark spots/ticking, no ej marks, no ear lacing ataC_eje?? Magpie=No ear lacing or face marking, only one ej bar extending from stomach to mid back atachd_eje? Cinnamon/tort harli=Dark ear lacing, darker underside of face, ej marking covers chest/throat/neck down the leg AabbC_Eej? Black/fawn harli=Darker underside of face, very light ear lacing, checkerboard back, has faded look AaC_eje? |
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| HRoberts | Jun 7 2015, 09:32 AM Post #129 |
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POWITH!!
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I'm posting these assuming both parents carry ej, if not then disregard Black silver marten=Nothing ej distinguishable atachd_E_ Black otter=Nothing ej distinguishable ataC_E "Fawn"=No dark spots/ticking, no ej marks, no ear lacing ataC_eje?? -> Is this a fox color (torted tan)? If so, could be at_eje or ejej, I am not sure yet that ejej will always hide the torting with tan or self. I had two does to determine this, at least partially... one broke her neck spooked in her cage (I think the lawnmower outside), the other didn't take (first mating) and I have sent back the testing buck. It will be late summer before I can test mate her again :/. If this is a genuine fawn, like a Palomino, then it's A_ee or A_eje. You can have almost entirely no markings and still have an ej gene there. It could be ejej, for all we know. The conditions for super light markings seem to be heritable but not dominant nor simple recessive. Magpie=No ear lacing or face marking, only one ej bar extending from stomach to mid back atachd_eje? -> Do not assume this, could be ejej. Cinnamon/tort harli=Dark ear lacing, darker underside of face, ej marking covers chest/throat/neck down the leg AabbC_Eej? ->this would be aaeje, or again possibly aaejej (see above note about tan and torting w/ ejej). Black/fawn harli=Darker underside of face, very light ear lacing, checkerboard back, has faded look AaC_eje? -> Could be ejej. Faded look is not related to number of japanese genes. |
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| HRoberts | Jun 7 2015, 09:35 AM Post #130 |
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POWITH!!
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Also don't assume cchd on a magpie - I've not tested this myself but have seen rex magpie kits that were reportedly cchl. After the Agouti/E series I am hoping to work with the C series. We have actually somewhat started that with an outcross to a c with C harlequins. We shall see.... (or c). |
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| reh | Jun 7 2015, 12:52 PM Post #131 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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I am still convinced you cant see any differences in agouti gene in truebreeding eJeJ animals (no receptor, no way for agouti signal protein to work), so i would say a torted harli have to be eJe. I cannot prove this but i read this on different ocassions on different places from harli breeders also. |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| wildrabbits | Jun 8 2015, 01:07 AM Post #132 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Edited by wildrabbits, Jun 23 2015, 10:34 PM.
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| wildrabbits | Jun 8 2015, 01:40 AM Post #133 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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...
Edited by wildrabbits, Jun 23 2015, 10:35 PM.
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| reh | Jun 8 2015, 02:47 AM Post #134 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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For this its good to know how things work. The MC1R receptor (the black/yellow switch) switchs on production of dark pigment by signaling. In case of no signal (broken switch, missing, wrong or broken ligand) light pigment is made. A and E genes influence this signal path. A is the agouti signal protein (ASIP) which is the antagonist to melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). If there is no dark color, there is a "light" one. If this light is white, creame, orange, reddish or deep redbrown in not caused by the switch mechanism. I cannot exclude this light areas you note are caused by Aa, I dont payed attention for. But I would say it has way more to do with rufus factors, which helps coloring the lighter areas into an even tone. The areas darker in yellow or agouti colors are the same where rusty back (in connection with much rufus) in young cchd rabbits may appear: In germany white on japanese bellies is often designated as sign of A. They wish (truebreeding) japaneses to beeing aa for not have this white. It doesnt matter for the same reason. There may be other unknown factors be on play (called rufus?), which influence the amount of pheomelanin (yellow) as well as the tort side markings. F.e. the available amount of cysteine influences the production of yellow pigment (even black cells first made yellow, when they run out of cystin, they start making black). No/few cysteine => no/few pheomelanin. |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| wildrabbits | Jun 8 2015, 07:02 AM Post #135 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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That kit is hard to get good pics of. I will have to take a pic of it's other side and neck so you can see what I mean. The cinnamon tort harli seems like an ej version of the second rabbit you pictured Reh ![]() The colors seem dark like a full extension AaEej to me |
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That would make the buck A_EsE (I think Aa if I remember his other litters correctly), the doe Ataejej. This kit would then be either AAtEsej or AaEsej.
Fixed 

1:40 PM Jul 11