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| Trying to Understand: Culling? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 11 2014, 01:29 AM (374 Views) | |
| louierabbit | May 11 2014, 01:29 AM Post #1 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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Not sure if this is in the right topic, go ahead and move it if you need to. I have nothing against culling. I would never be able to do it myself though. I get that you need to get the aggressive ones out of the breeding lines and kill the sick ones so that they don't have to suffer. I believe that they should have a fighting chance and should live out their lives even if it's short. I just don't understand the people who cull just to limit their breeding stock or get rid of some rabbits. Why can't they find them new homes as pets or at other farms to be bred somewhere else? Please help me better understand culling and why people do it. I'd also like to hear your experiences with culling. I've never had one and since I keep rabbits mostly as pets, I actually never heard of the term until I joined this forum. Again, I'm NOT against culling, just want to better understand it. |
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Visit my website at The Rabbit Louie Keep Hopping! | |
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| NeuBunny | May 11 2014, 07:38 AM Post #2 |
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Genetics Geek!
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1 - a pet peeve for me - the word 'cull' is not a synonym for 'kill'. The word cull means 'to select'. In agriculture, it means to select (for/against) the animals that will be included in the next generation of breeding. Every time an animal is fixed, it is permanently culled from the breeding population. Every time an animal is sold as a pet with the intention that it not be bred, it is culled. In a narrower sense, every time one is simply sold (for any purpose) or kept and never bred it is culled from the local breeding population (culled from the herd). Rabbits have traditionally been raised for meat. More rabbits are still raised for meat than for any other purpose. So traditionally, animals culled (removed from the breeding population) went for meat (or animal) food. The proper term for a cull that is killed is 'terminal cull'. The vast majority of rabbits that are 'terminally culled' still are raised to a certain age and then go for meat. Selling and/or finding new homes for rabbits can be hard. Breeders generally want to breed the best. So finding another breeder to take your culls (the ones that aren't good enough to keep for breeding for your own herd) generally only happens when you are at the top of the breeding world. Catch-22 is that those at the top generally got there by building a reputation of selling only top quality animals -- which means they either did terminal cull or sold the majority of their culls clearly as pets 'not for breeding'. Finding good pet homes can also be hard. Unless going to a close friend or family member, you are always sending babies off to a new life somewhat blind. Too many breeders have horror stories of finding out later that the bunny we sent off to a 'good home' wound up neglected or abused. Some conclude that a merciful death within their own control is kinder than that chance. Personally, I'm not among them - I perhaps tend to be optimistic and take the position of hope and trust. Selling pets you are going to deal with random calls from people you don't know, people who ask you to hold a rabbit and never show up, people who expect you to drive out of your way to deliver a rabbit to them (and generally act like they are doing you a favor getting a rabbit from you), people who think you are charging to much, people who want snake food, etc. This 'dealing with people' aspect is too much stress for some breeders. One further note on 'terminal cull' of very young animals. Some show breeders do terminally cull babies in the nest box. Sometimes it is because they believe the animal has no chance at a good quality of life (peanuts, max factors, malocclusion, and other deformities). Sometimes it is because a litter is so large that the mom can't handle them all - removing some gives the others a better chance. Note that wild mother rabbits would do the same (eat or abandon babies that have no chance of survival or endanger the survival of the majority). They are not cruel, evil or bad mothers for doing so -- this is the natural instinct of prey animals who have large litters to best produce the next generation. Some do terminally cull mismarked kits - generally people who don't have a good market for or have chosen not to sell pets. Doing so frees cage space to raise another litter to maturity - a litter that will have a better chance of contributing to your herd or to be sold to another breeder. |
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| sidd-says-gimme | May 11 2014, 01:34 PM Post #3 |
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sidd says stay gold
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What Neubunny said. ![]() Some breeders choose not to sell pets. Larger breeding programs (so, they produce a lot of babies) are unlikely to be able to find homes for all of the pet quality bunnies. Others simply don't want to be part of the "population problem". As long as the animals are treated kindly and respected until the breeder makes that choice, I don't think it's a problem. |
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| louierabbit | May 11 2014, 03:10 PM Post #4 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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I understand a lot better. I still don't think it's right to cull mismarked rabbits. I get that it frees up cage space so that that person can breed more litters and continue with their breeding program. I just think that even if they don't have a good market for pet rabbits, they should still try to get them homes, even if they don't usually sell for pets. That's just my opinion. Before, I did think cull meant kill, so thanks for clearing that up. |
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Visit my website at The Rabbit Louie Keep Hopping! | |
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| ZRabbits | May 12 2014, 07:12 AM Post #5 |
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Love My Lions!
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Lots of unwanted pets out there, and not a lot of responsible pet owners. Just looking for Lilly, the stuff I read, heard and learned about, just stomach turning. KAZ |
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| sidd-says-gimme | May 12 2014, 12:57 PM Post #6 |
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sidd says stay gold
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Sometimes it's better to be treated nicely for a short while than to be placed in a home that may or may not neglect the animal. Everyone thinks differently, but in reality there just aren't enough great pet homes to accommodate every single bunny. The less people wanting rabbits, the more likely that someone is to get desperate to rehome them. I do sell a lot of pets, but the market is decent here. If I had to, I would cull rather than place them in unsatisfactory homes/sit around my rabbitry forever. |
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| louierabbit | May 12 2014, 01:43 PM Post #7 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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Well, how do you know if a home is satisfactory? What questions would you ask? |
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Visit my website at The Rabbit Louie Keep Hopping! | |
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| ZRabbits | May 13 2014, 04:36 AM Post #8 |
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Love My Lions!
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The first question I would ask a potential customers is if they ever had a rabbit as a pet, or if not, do they know anything about rabbits. Louie, you can only do so much when placing kits in good homes. Hopefully those who do sell, can give you some insight on what questions to ask. Once the kits are out of your hands they are just that. You can only hope for the best, hoping those kits are loved and taken care of the rest of their lives. And that goes to selling to breeders as well. Not everyone looks at their rabbits the same as you. KAZ |
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| ZRabbits | May 13 2014, 06:29 AM Post #9 |
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Love My Lions!
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If you don't want to terminally cull, you really need to form a market for your rabbits. As Sidd says, she's got an established business or hobby for pets. When looking for a dog, my husband wanted to rescue, I wanted a dog and would have gone to a reputable breeder for one. Seeing what's being posted on Craig's list and seeing what is in the actual rescue, most of the pups and dogs out there are Standard Terriers. Too many really as some think that getting a male and female, have pups, means Big Bucks. Meaning too many backyard breeders, people who have NO clue what they are doing, and actually call Vets and Rescues when female is pregnant or had the pups. We believe the mix in Lilly is a Terrier. Terriers are being mixed with every type of dog here. Also the trend here, as the economy is bad and lots of people losing jobs, homes, are older pets that can't come with them when they move. Due to landlords, family members with pets that won't get along with the new pet, it's just a shame. I don't know what the solution is regarding those who think that breeding an animal will bring in loads of money, but those who do breed should have a plan before breeding. But remember, no matter how hard you try to find the right home, things happen. The new owners have to take on the responsibility of the pet. Having rescued two dogs, and seeing what irresponsible pet owners have done to these two dogs, know that when I'm ready for a second dog (yep always wanted two), will be going to a respectable, responsible breeder as I would like to have a pup from the very start from a breeder who breeds because they love the breed, not because they see dollar signs. Know I'll pay a pretty price, but then again, it's my money isn't it? Do your best to find good homes, but have a plan. Don't be part of the problem (backyard breeders looking for Fast Money) as that's what is in those rescue/shelter. KAZ |
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| NCK | May 13 2014, 09:19 AM Post #10 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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I've been very blessed to find good homes for the pets I've sold. One thing I do is allow people to reserve (with a deposit) pets a couple of weeks before they are ready to leave. That way, they have time to prepare and ask questions, and I know that they are at least willing to wait and it's not usually an impulse buy. Most of the time, I don't have any specific list of questions I run through, because I can usually tell by the way someone inquires if they have been looking for a while, how much they know, whether they are open to learning more, etc. If I want to know more about the home the rabbit is going to, I just ask. If they're not willing to give me an answer, then I figure they're probably not serious. I agree with ZRabbits, definitely do ask if they have experience with rabbits. That is actually one of the questions I require people to answer when they first contact me through the form on our website. I have information available on our website, and also send all of our pets home with detailed care sheets. I assume they know nothing and cover everything I can think of in the care sheet; even if they know a lot about rabbits and their care, it can't hurt, and at least they have my recommendations. I email the care sheet to people as soon as I receive a deposit on a bunny, that way they have time to look over it beforehand. I also remind everyone that I can always be contacted if any questions arise down the road. |
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| NeuBunny | May 13 2014, 06:29 PM Post #11 |
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Genetics Geek!
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I will second Z's advice, have a plan - and ideally a backup plan - before any deliberate breeding (of any species). While my kids hate the idea of terminal cull for any of their babies - and my oldest is vegetarian and so puts meat in that category too - I do have that on my 'last resort' backup plan. Haven't had to go there for bunnies, but I do have an agreement with a friend who raises meat rabbits (and her family eats rabbit regularly) that she will take any extras off my hands if I ever get in over my head. I did go there with roosters a year ago -- they started fighting and I would much rather humanely kill them and eat them than have them tear each other apart. |
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| ZRabbits | May 14 2014, 04:20 AM Post #12 |
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Love My Lions!
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NCK brings up a very good point on having "care" information to give your customers who buy your rabbits. I would go and look at some on different websites to get an idea. Please have a plan. It's amazing how fast someone could get overwhelmed if they don't have a plan for the bunnies that come from breeding. KAZ |
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| louierabbit | May 16 2014, 12:46 PM Post #13 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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This will be my last litter. I don't plan on breeding again for a long time. I'm pretty sure I've found a good home for one of the babies. They actually wanted the one that died. I know it's a good home because she is a family friend AND she drove over to my house to help me warm up the kit when he was very cold. I'm going to ask potential buyers if they have experience with rabbits and see if I can tell the home they are going to. I also like the idea of asking about the home the rabbit is going to and if they answer, at least I know they are serious. I'll post pictures on craigslist when they are about 3 weeks old so that people can put down a deposit and wait until they are ready. I like that idea too. Thanks everybody! |
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Visit my website at The Rabbit Louie Keep Hopping! | |
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| ZRabbits | May 18 2014, 06:27 AM Post #14 |
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Love My Lions!
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Glad to hear about this. You know, it's really thrilling to see these animals, actually any animal, from the beginning of life, grow up, but sometimes, it's just as thrilling just having them around. Enjoying the work of great, responsible breeders. Or even bring home one that was put on a shelf in a shelter due to an irresponsible owner. But then, here I am generalizing because not all surrenders are due to irresponsibility, but other hardships. A decision for some that is heart wrenching and with lots of hope that that cherished pet finds someone who will look after that cherished pet, as that pet is accustomed to. Enjoy your bunnies. Hoping you find homes for those little ones that will just enjoy having them around and getting to really know them. Be cautious of Craigslist though. Word of mouth could be more helpful for you. Maybe the person who is really looking forward to her rabbit can help get the word out for you as well? KAZ |
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Everyone thinks differently, but in reality there just aren't enough great pet homes to accommodate every single bunny. The less people wanting rabbits, the more likely that someone is to get desperate to rehome them.
1:39 PM Jul 11