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| Ebony's Litter- Pic of litter- new pics up :) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 30 2014, 06:18 PM (912 Views) | |
| volz83 | Jun 30 2014, 06:18 PM Post #1 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Well I went on a vacation and intrusted my bunns to my hubby which he did a great job at! Got to come home the day Ebony's litter was born on: 06/29/2014! She had SIX babies! Five are black (couple of them have some brown like coloring on them? Not sure if it's just how blacks develop, can see what I mean in picture #4) and one is a really nice dark tort! Ebony is a solid black doe whom was bred to a Siamese Sable, was kind of hoping Ebony had something recessive to Tort as her hidden C gene but looks like she did not. Either way, I'm hoping I have a nice show quality kit in the making! Everyone is doing great! #1 ![]() #2 ![]() #3 ![]() #4 ![]() The cool looking tort! ![]() ![]() you can see the brown better in the sunlight:
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| NCK | Jun 30 2014, 09:12 PM Post #2 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Way to go, Ebony! The kits are so cute . Fingers crossed you get one or two show quality kits!
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| ZRabbits | Jul 1 2014, 04:38 AM Post #3 |
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Love My Lions!
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Congratulations to Ebony and her healthy litter! Hoping to hear as these sweeties grow, a potential "show quality" bun starts to shine! Look forward to hearing updates! KAZ |
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| volz83 | Jul 1 2014, 11:12 AM Post #4 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Thanks! Yeah I'm really got my fingers crossed for a nice show quality kit. Both parents come from great breeders so we shall see! |
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| NeuBunny | Jul 2 2014, 07:29 AM Post #5 |
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Genetics Geek!
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Can't tell from the photos whether the brown you pointed out in picture 4 is real or lighting effect as I don't see it in the other photos. But keep an eye on those slightly lighter kits that look to have a bit of brown on the flanks -- they may end up seal or sable if Ebony could be carrying chl. |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Jul 2 2014, 11:15 AM Post #6 |
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sidd says stay gold
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Aw, congrats! I'm so glad that this litter worked out so well for you! They're super cute! I find that blacks in my Hollands (my blacks also have the shaded gene in there) vary in intensity. Not sure if the gene messes with the color or not... I don't believe all of them were seals, but just poor color. |
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| volz83 | Jul 3 2014, 12:08 PM Post #7 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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So Ebony's black kits are funky? At first they look black but then they are a sepia brown color?? I took a bunch of pictures in different shades of lighting and some with flash and some without. I've had a broken black kit before but his color was always pure black, no weird brown coloring in different shades of light lol Tell me what you think. On a side note, no idea if this has anything to do with it but the sire to this litter is a really really dark siamese sable point. Kits are pictured at 4 days old With Flash: ![]() ![]() Without flash in low light: ![]() ![]() Natural light, no flash: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Sorry for the picture over load, I just wonder if you see what I'm seeing? If you hold a kit by it's self it looks at first black but then it doesn't? lol I don't know :-P |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Jul 3 2014, 01:00 PM Post #8 |
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sidd says stay gold
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While it could be seal, it doesn't look to be as "off" as the litter I had that were probably seals. They look like some of the blacks I get from my black doe (who carries shaded) bred to a buck that I know doesn't carry shaded. |
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| volz83 | Jul 3 2014, 01:45 PM Post #9 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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ok so blacks can vary in degree of darkness then? I just thought they were all pure black with no shading degree. The litter you had that you thought could be seals, did they end up as seals or blacks? These guys at first look, look just regular black but then when the light hits them they have some degree of brown. lol Seal must a wonderful color to figure out :-P |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Jul 3 2014, 02:14 PM Post #10 |
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sidd says stay gold
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I find that intensity of blacks definitely vary. I have a litter right now from a siamese sable and a blue tort (who does not carry shaded) that are quite different. One is kind of a "muddy" black and the other is a shiny jet black. I have had other examples as well. I bred the black doe that carries shaded to a sable point once and got a tort and 3 "blacks". They all were quite a bit more "muddy" than the ones here and I assumed that they were seals since it was very much possible and they were "off". I still have one of those and she's about 4 months old... she ended up darkening quite a bit and has shiny fur right now, so I'm unsure if she's black or seal. |
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| volz83 | Jul 3 2014, 02:20 PM Post #11 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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do you have any pics of them? They all sound so cute! The other thing to, is the sire is a VERY dark siamese sable, in fact if I didn't know that was his color I would have said he was seal. So no idea if him being really dark and Ebony being black, would make for really dark muddy seals/sables. I know the one tort in this litter is really dark tort. Will be fun watching these guys develop. For now I'll assume they are black and if some end up not, then nice surprise!
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| sidd-says-gimme | Jul 3 2014, 04:15 PM Post #12 |
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sidd says stay gold
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Could definitely still be a seal... but for me, I would just assume black until proven otherwise. I have a few pictures, including some of a young bun that had to be a seal genetically. Unfortunately none with a black sibling. Here's the topic: http://s4.zetaboards.com/Rabbit_Addict/topic/10028804/2/ Later on, I'll check to see if I can find any pictures of my black doe's babies... of course I have hundreds of bunny albums so I'm not sure if I'll be able to find the,.
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| volz83 | Jul 3 2014, 04:42 PM Post #13 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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yeah I'm going to assume black as well. Your kits are so cute! On one of the pages from your link, neubunny had posted two links, one of a dark siamese sable and a lighter one. The sire to this litter was really dark just like the dark siamese sable. I just highly doubt Ebony carries any c gene other than tort but as the kits get bigger it should be more obvious. |
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| NeuBunny | Jul 4 2014, 08:06 AM Post #14 |
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Genetics Geek!
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To start, tort is not a C-gene. It actually isn't a single gene at all, but a color resulting from a combination of genes. Colors are not carried, genes are. Tort is a combination of self and non-extension (E-gene) - aa C- ee is tort. Even though torts are often called and shown as 'shaded' they are NOT genetic shaded (chl). Since you got a tort kit, Ebony carries non-extension -- aaB-C-D-Ee. Sire is siamese sable point -- aaB-chl-D-ee note that sable points are what you get when you add non-extension (ee) to genetic shaded (chl-). Since you describe him as 'really dark' is it possible he is seal point? aaB-chlchlD-ee If Ebony is hiding chd (chin gene) then the kits might be self chins -- aaB-chd-D-E-. Self chins often have a color somewhere between black and seal. If Ebony is hiding chl (shaded gene) then the kits might be seals -- aaB-chlchlD-E- However, while those are possible, these are cases where I would expect some of the kits to be darker (C-) and some to be lighter (chd- or chlchl) -- because Ebony would give her C gene to some kits and her recessive gene to others. The odds she would give the recessive gene to all 5 is just 1 in 64 (<2%). Theory says black is completely dominant -- CC, Cchd, Cchl, Cch and Cc are all black. But I find a lot of people say the genotypes hiding recessive versions of the gene just aren't quite as intense black -- especially on kits. Over and above that, there are potentially lots of other modifier genes that can affect color intensity. And color development for some gene combinations are temperature sensitive -- especially self combinations (aa with ee, aa with chl- and aa with ch-). I suspect the black kits are all aaB-CchlD-Ee -- likely with some of the 'sable modifiers' (unnamed genes common in sables and resulting in the variation of sable colors) from the sire lightening the color. I recall somewhere reading that you can cross good blacks into sables if you want to darken the color, but expect any blacks produced would have poor color intensity -- not sure whether that was due to the carried chl directly or to messing with modifiers. |
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| volz83 | Jul 5 2014, 12:17 PM Post #15 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Ya your completely right Neubunny. I think these guys are just black, I can see now how different genes can effect the intensity of a color. I think what I've been seeing is the light reflecting on their coats, kind of throws off the color of their coat. They have very shiny coats. Here they are at 6 days old! Fur is all in and they are a really cute bunch! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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. Fingers crossed you get one or two show quality kits!



















1:03 PM Jul 11