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Chestnut, chestnut, everywhere chestnut...
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 12:46 PM (77 Views)
susie570
New to the Addiction
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Hi - new here (some of you may know me from another forum) =P

I'm looking for as many ideas as I can get regarding possible colors.

First thing is... I have mini lops.

Second, I have a broken chestnut doe. She's a pretty thing. I'll be breeding her soon, for the first time. She's pedigreed and in her lineage I see chestnuts, broken chestnuts and one (great grand-dam) steel. I do not want steel.

Is there ANYTHING I can breed with a chestnut doe to get 'interesting colors'?? Not, necessarily SHOWABLE colors mind you, just pretty colors.
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NeuBunny
Genetics Geek!
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Chestnut won't hide the steel gene ... any genetic agouti with the steel gene will BE steel.

Chestnut is a fairly dominant genotype (A-B-C-D-E-) and so can hide a lot of other colors.

If you want 'rainbow litters' look to match her with one of the really recessive genotypes ... e.g., lilac pearl = aabbchl-ddee ... that will pull out whatever genes she's hiding...

Of course, being from a pretty much straight chestnut line she may be AABBCCDDEE ... in which case she will throw only chestnuts (but those babies will carry the genes from the other parent to give you pretty colors in the next generation).

Other recessive genotypes...

REW is the most recessive on the C-series ... and can hide just about anything on the other genes. If your doe is carrying chd from the steel ancestor, this could give you chinchillas.

Torts are recessive aa + ee ... if she's hiding other A-series or E-series genes, this will pull them out ... possibly giving you selfs and red/orange/fawn (tricolor if she happens to be hiding ej, tan pattern if she is hiding at).

Lilac is recessive bb + dd. (chocolate just the bb and blue just the dd). Anything in those bases will pull out recessive colors she is hiding ... likely to throw opal, chocolate agouti and lynx versions.

lol - lilac torts are my favorite test cross bunnies ... good for figuring out hidden genes and giving you rainbow litters at the same time!



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susie570
New to the Addiction
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Ah thank you, yeah... her parents and grandparents are all chestnuts. Just that one steel 3 generations back. Lol OH well, I couldn't resist her, such a pretty girl. I guess I can go for broken chestnuts (like she is) and hope for colors out of my harli and/or the next generation. :D
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HRoberts
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POWITH!!
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And just because parents/grandparents were chestnuts doesn't necessarily reduce her odds of carrying recessives much. For all you know, they were the only chestnut kits in their litters - everything else might have been a huge mix. Broken chestnut is a beautiful color pattern though, it might grow on you :)
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susie570
New to the Addiction
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Thank you :) She is a pretty girl and I don't mind her color, just hoping for colors that sell well.

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twr
POWITH!!
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HRoberts
May 28 2015, 06:53 AM
And just because parents/grandparents were chestnuts doesn't necessarily reduce her odds of carrying recessives much. For all you know, they were the only chestnut kits in their litters - everything else might have been a huge mix.
Yes, IMO information about distant ancestors is overrated; the great grandparents on back are not very informative.
Parents and offspring can both give definite information about hidden genes so are most important. I realise that previous offspring are usually not available, but where they are, they can tell you more than the parents and grandparents combined. The remaining relations can only adjust the probabilities. Full siblings (same litter or not) can give most information, followed by half siblings and grandparents which give equal information. This is all based on the information given when a recessive phenotype appears "unexpectedly". Thinking about the amount of information given by the absence of such recessives makes my head hurt.

Examples based on a chestnut called Bob with 3 geerations of ancestors all chestnut except where otherwise stated.
Just the ancestors -> at most 43% chance Bob carries self*
One self parent -> Bob definitely carries self.
One self offspring -> Bob definitely carries self
One self sibling -> 66% chance Bob carries self.
One self half sibling -> at least 50% chance Bob carries self
One self grandparent -> at least 50% chance Bob carries self

*this maximum would apply if all great grandparents carried self. Most people would assume this is unlikely and estimate Bob's chances of carrying self to be significantly lower, but it is not at all clear how much lower the estimate should be.
Edited by twr, May 28 2015, 01:58 PM.
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