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| Big Update on Lutino, Satin, White Ears.. etc. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 2 2015, 08:22 PM (588 Views) | |
| Disney | Jul 2 2015, 08:22 PM Post #1 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Hi guys, you know me.. i occasionally show up here and give an update on where i stand with my Lutino Dwarf (Satin) breeding project. I dont know where i was last time.. i think i was waiting for the young doe's to grow up and breed some of the mature doe's who weren't willing last year. At this point its going really well. I have bred around 20 lutinos the the last 6 months, they are black and chocolate based and some of them are satin and/or broken. I am trying to go for Blue and Lilac lutinos as well but that is going to take another generations since my breeding buck doesnt carry dilute, but some of the kits and doe's do so we'll see that developing later. So im going in order.. but im skipping the 2 champagnes that i bred in the winter, because i already showed them here at the time. After those i got a Satin Dove, which is a satinized black lutino. Dove stands for black and champagne stands for chocolate. I mainy breed for chocolate but i still have black rabbits that i use, so i get both in the mix. The Satin Dove doe that i bred in january. She will be bred in august when i get back from vacation. Cant wait for that!! ![]() ![]() And then in march, the first doe's slowly started getting in the mood to breed.. So first was a black doe bred by a broken black buck. Both were first timers and this was going to be my first broken litter. I got a dove lutino in the litter but it wasnt broken. But I was excited because it was a buck, because i didnt have a lutino buck and was depending on my carrier bucks this whole time. You can imagine breeding 2 carriers to get 25% of lutino (1/4) is a huge disadvantage to start out. That is like breeding minirex out of 2 rex-carriers to build op your herd. But i didnt like this buck so i decided not to keep him. I wanted a champagne buck, since Dove is black based and not what i want. ![]() ![]() The broken sire. I know he is not special, except for the genes that he carries. I want a more heavier pattern towards booted. I dont like the false charlie look that he has. ![]() The next litter was from the same broken black sire with my proven satin black dam who gave me the 2 champagnes and satin dove prior. I was already done with her but i used her one last time as a back up for the first timer doe's who were bred around the same time. I wasnt expecintg anything special since both are black and i didnt know what the buck carried before. I thought they were going to be the same as the above litter with just blacks (and uglier type kits) but i got a huge surprise from her! I got my first broken lutino and satin at the same time!! And i got my first champagne buck as well as my first broken chocolate and a satin broken black, thats 4 surprises in one litter! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And next up was my Broken Black Rex doe, another first timer and the sister to the Broken Black buck. The was bred to the chocolate buck. I was also hoping for a broken lutino from her but she had 4 solids.. I wasnt mad because she had a chocoate doe, a satin chocolate buck aaaaand a champagne buck!! Who knew that she carried chocolate and satin! I was only expecting regular blacks and dove's from her. Both her and her brother proved to carry chocolate and satin which a huge deal for me. Their dam was actually a pure bred rex dwarf from belgium that i crossed with my deceased Lutino buck, and he carried chocolate, rex, satin and i kept 2 kits from that litter. These were my first broken, lutino carriers but i thought it would take another extra generation combine the broken with chocolate and satin, but i was lucky that i got them all in one package! Anyway moving on.. this is the Broken Black Rex doe and her litter. I am keeping both the satin choc buck as the champagne buck to replace their sire. ![]() ![]() ![]() But i have to stop here because its too much to type in one post.. there are many litters following and its 3:20 am so i will continue the rest later. I promise you i have lots of beautiful surprises to show you And here are 2 pics from the pen. They were taken at different times. ![]()
Edited by Disney, Jul 2 2015, 08:30 PM.
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| reh | Jul 3 2015, 12:03 AM Post #2 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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I would really appreciate, if you could add the lutino rabbits to http://www.rabbitcolors.info Currently we try to get lutino DNA sequenced and it would be good to have some more lutino entries, also in differend base colors, to compare colors. |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| wildrabbits | Jul 3 2015, 02:52 AM Post #3 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Beautiful rabbits Disney! I always admire and deeply respect the rare recessive gene breeders as well as the rabbits carrying said genes. I am honestly quite clueless about all the differing heterozygous/homozygous effects of both Lutino and/or Satin on different genotype backgrounds so I think it is really quite awesome of you to share! =) |
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| sidd-says-gimme | Jul 3 2015, 06:44 AM Post #4 |
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sidd says stay gold
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Ah! As always, I'm so excited to see your updates! Lovely animals and keep them coming! It would be nice if lutino could become more popular... especially in America.
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| Disney | Jul 3 2015, 07:38 AM Post #5 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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I tried but it doesnt work. It says "bijdrage terugzetten" and "vooruitblik", i clicked on both but it erases everything i put down. |
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| reh | Jul 3 2015, 11:39 AM Post #6 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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I tried it and it works. Hm, have you cookies forbidden (normally it should work without cookies too)? Are you registered or guest? |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| Disney | Jul 3 2015, 12:06 PM Post #7 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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I did both and still doesnt work. It loads the pages for 5 minutes and then erases all of the info.. |
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| reh | Jul 3 2015, 01:37 PM Post #8 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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5 minutes loading is not normal. Are there any other connection problems? Maybe it helps to clear the cache? |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| NeuBunny | Jul 4 2015, 10:20 AM Post #9 |
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Genetics Geek!
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I always look forward to your posts - such lovely and unusual colors. Second to last picture … bunny on the far right. Is that the satin dove? Stunning!!! |
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| Disney | Aug 14 2015, 10:46 AM Post #10 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Yes and she got bred 2 days ago, it will be her first litter. ![]() More pictures following.. i have had about 15 litters and they are still coming so many babys to show you guys! I had this white ear lutino doe imported from Germany but it seems that she is some kind of Otter and Steel. She has a solid black kit with light otter markings. I dont want the steel gene to mess up my lines, so this will be her last litter. She had a black white ear, 2 blacks and 2 lutinos. One of the lutino is a Satin Dove Löffelohr (spoon ear). Probably the first world wide. ![]() ![]() Isnt he special? Ofcourse i am not keeping him although i really could use a satin lutino buck but i dont want the Löffelohr gene further in my lines so he moved to a friend of my who breeds rex dwarf löffelohr. He will be put to good use over there. ![]() ![]() Then my Rex Champagne Otter Lutino doe finally got bred after 10 months of TRYING!! She had 2 lutino, 2 choc otters and a choc self. ![]() ![]() ![]() Oh and i got a satin broken dove lutino as well! I love her color ![]() ![]() And then i got a Satin Champagne doe as well with a very rich peach color ![]() My first bred Champagne doe had her litter too and gave me a F2 Champagne. Very cute! ![]() A champagne otter doe. I wont be keeping her. ![]() Finally I got a heavy marked broken. I want a broken lutino with this pattern.. maybe even heavier. ![]() Some of the youngsters together that i seperated from their moms and mixed together. ![]() I got another broken lutino but unfortunately a false charlie so i wont be keeping her. ![]() I also got a litter of 3 blues and 2 lilacs. ![]() ![]() Their mom ![]() Two dove bucks that are looking for a pet home ![]() These brothers are looking for a home too. The ugly type of champagne in the middle hurts me looking at it. ![]() Very cute broken chocolate doe. She is staying. ![]() The 3 bucks that i selected for the next generation! ![]() ![]() A white ear buck. ![]() And a champagne buck in his uglies ![]() I also had this litter of harlequin loffelohr (spoon ears). This was a testbreeding of a black tort doe and a blue buck to see what the buck was carrying on the E loci. He proved to carry harlequin so i got rid of him after. I dont want harlequin ever. ![]() And then i got another litter with 3 bucks with lovely colors. I thought the orange kit was a choc tort at first but it seemed to be a new Lutino color... Champagne Tort!! ![]() This is them now. ![]() Neubunny why is this buck displaying agouti type markings? He has eye circles and a whiteish belly but its not completly white. The undercoat is creme and the hair tops are whiter. Someone lashed out to me it was a hidden agouti because the ASIP gene is responsible for agouti markings blablabla but thats not possible. The sire is a proven chocolate and the dam is a blue and this is their second litter together. First litter was 2 black, a chocolate and a champagne satin. And second litter is a black, a satin chocolate, a dove lutino and this what i call Champagne Tort Lutino. Why tort? Because she had a peanut black tort in their too so thats the only explanation. Their code is aabbCCDDEe and aaBbC_ddEe. I expected a champagne tort to be a brighter tone of champagne with lighter shadings on the flanks, but instead the shadings are white with a white belly, and the color on the back has more rufus than what a normal champagne has. Why is that? ![]() I have many more litters and babies but i dont have a recent photo of all of them and most of them are carriers and i only wanted to show the lutinos so. More updates will follow later! Edited by Disney, Aug 14 2015, 10:56 AM.
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| NeuBunny | Aug 16 2015, 05:48 PM Post #11 |
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Genetics Geek!
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To the direct question … I don't know the genetics, but I think it is something in the tort ancestry (whether direct effect of carrying e or a tort modifier). Something I've seen before in reds and agoutis with tort ancestors (and I assume it is doing the same thing to your lutino here) - a shading in the phaeomelanin to lower rufus on the flanks and tummy, higher in the saddle. Haven't seen it cause the faint eye cycles though. So MANY bunnies in such beautiful and unusual colors and combinations!!I LOVE the satin dove loffelohr. lol - seeing it with the siblings makes me wonder what it would look like with white ears though?! Do you have any bunnies that combine loffelohr with white ear? "Satin Champagne doe as well with a very rich peach color" - this one is my favorite. Stunning. |
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| Disney | Aug 16 2015, 07:02 PM Post #12 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Hmm so it would be something out of the ordinary that shows extreme markings? This is for me the first time seeing a torted lutino, so i am still trying to understand why it looks the way it is. But in addition to that.. my friend has got the same color in her litter as well and it looks exactly the same as mine, also being self but looking agouti-ish. So it seems to be a normal pattern for this specific color. The dam is a black rex aaBbCCDDEe Pp and the buck is a dove lutino rex aaBbC_DdEe pp. There is a black, chocolate, dove, champagne and a champagne tort in the litter and it shows the same "agouti" markings as my kit. ![]() ![]()
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| LudimarND | Aug 18 2015, 04:25 AM Post #13 |
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New to the Addiction
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Thankyou for the indepth progress report on your Lutinos Disney.. are you UK or USA/EU? Your post was how I found this Forum LOL as I was searching for as much info as possible on this gene I have just purchased 4 x F1 Lutino x ND rabbits 2 x Dove unrelated bucks 1 x Satin Dove doe and 1 x Satin Black? Orange? doe... the Satin combined with the Lutino was the final push I needed to step into this Project LOL as stunning rabbitsin the flesh to see that coat glisten and shine... I do have a few questions though if I may ask? The Breeder of these rabbits used REW to make the cross o.. they seemed to be under the impression that the red eye would help maintain the Lutino eye.. as the Lutino still has part pigment would this perhaps not be such a wise route to follow? Or would the REW indeed help the Lutino eye? As they are only F1 .. I am not too worried about their REW past and I had intended to use selfs to further the Lutino project - I have black - blue and choc in my shed at this time... I have also seen some use tort and orange - what is your feeling on this? And would you use Opal/Cinnamon/Lynx? I am trying to start the Project in the right way with the right colored foundation ND to improve their Dwarf type yet maintain the Satin/Lutino genes... I am unsure whether the Bucks would be of use (and may move them on) as they are bigger than the normal Dwarf doe so could cause complications in birth - would you use them? Thankyou in anticipation of any pointers you can give for me to start this Project... PS i also recently came across Lutino Lops in the UK too - the gene is gaining in popularity
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| sidd-says-gimme | Aug 18 2015, 03:30 PM Post #14 |
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sidd says stay gold
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In love! Gorgeous, gorgeous rabbits! |
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| Disney | Aug 19 2015, 08:44 AM Post #15 |
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Somebunny is a awfully chatty
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Hey Ludimar! I am EU - Netherlands located. The rew thing is nonsense.. i would not know how anyone comes up with that idea. The eye color is not affected so I dont how rew would help when it ruins the coat color. Lutino doesnt go together with chin, sable, rew etc. Because it takes away the yellow pigment and thats the only remaining pigment the lutino has. The black pigment is already gone and the yellow color makes it special as how we know it. I would stay away from rew and other c-recessive genes, like chin and sable, as much as possible and try to keep them (CC) homozygous full color gene. Otherwise you get fake albino lutinos which I think is a true waste. The color you want to breed with lutino depends on what lutino color you are aiming for. I personally go with selfs. I started out with black, chocolate, lilac and black tort. because there wasnt much choice but now i am trying to stay away from black and focus on the chocolate and lilac. Many of my stock dont carry dilute yet so i am working on that with a blue nd doe who hasnt produced a lutino in 3 litters (except for 1 peanut that died) and a blue rex doe who has had 2 litters that im happy about and the 3rd is on its way. So i am keeping a few daughters and 1 or 2 sons from her because they carry dilute and chocolate, which translates into lilac.. and then spread the dilute further down the line. Ultimately i want Silver, Champagne and Lavender (lilac lutino). The torts are extra. The tort doe i got was an extra when i just started out and I wanted to see what torted lutino looked like. I have now bred the first one and i dont like. However i will keep getting them or a few years because almost all of my stock carry tort. Outside of that i also breed satin, most are carriers or possible carriers.. I just selected my first Satin buck and he is not old enough to breed yet but when he is, I expect more satins in my litters which makes me more excited. It really depends on what you like.. if you like agouti and dilute you could use opal and lynx but i would advise you to start with a few colors untill you have a decent stock and really know which direction you want to head to. And then slowly mix up the colors if you want something new. But i wouldnt start with different colors from the start because it can be hard to recognise the colors because they are still new. I have seen many breeders who mistake a certain color and call it a wrong name, which can mess up your lines and ideas. So be cautious with what colors you breed together untill you know for sure what you want. I prefer false dwarf doe's on dwarf bucks but i have also did it the other way around, but he is still very small. You would think he is a dwarf but genetically he is not so breeding him to dwarf doe's doesnt produce any peanuts which is a great thing. So it depends on your individual animals but if you say they are big ND bucks then i wouldnt use a giant buck on a smaller doe.. they should be around the same size with a max weight difference of 500/700 kilograms. Ps if you want to follow my project close and see pictures.. you can join my group on facebook where i share pictures and stories. Click here --->> Lutino Empire |
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So MANY bunnies in such beautiful and unusual colors and combinations!!

1:40 PM Jul 11