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| Random stray white hair | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 22 2015, 07:33 PM (292 Views) | |
| volz83 | Sep 22 2015, 07:33 PM Post #1 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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A while ago I noticed Hershey my Siamese Sable developed random white hairs after I noticed one of his kits with it. Hershey's son, Mocha though does not have random white hair that I have noticed. Hershey's seal daughter, Lexus (different dam than Mocha) has just developed random white hair in the last few days but she's also started molting big time so white hair is coming out. I heard it's genetic but is it pretty dominant? How easily can it be bred out and do I only breed Lexus to clean coat colors to get it out? I don't believe in Hollands it's a DQ but a minor fault and coat color is only 4 points so I'm not overly worried but I do want to get it out of my lines. I will keep and breed Lexus, she has very good type and I need her but I assume I'll need to match her with a tort relative? |
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| NeuBunny | Sep 23 2015, 07:30 AM Post #2 |
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Genetics Geek!
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My understanding is that stray white is only a disqualification if it clusters into spots >6 hairs (or if so extensive you wonder if it is silvering). My understanding is that there are several different recessive 'modifiers' which can cause stray white. They are most common in broken and shaded lines (because it is hardest to see and select against them in those patterns). The only way to get them out of broken lines is to breed broken to solid and cull any parents (doe or buck) that throws a solid kit with stray white. That's a pretty major undertaking given how common these are in broken lines. Because chl interferes with pigment production, sables (and smoke pearl) are going to frequently have stray white - which often develops more as they age. Thus I don't think it can be completely bred out of sables -- very hard to breed out characteristics that only develop well after breeding age. Note that environmental factors - diet, injury, skin infection, etc - can also cause stray white hairs. |
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| volz83 | Sep 23 2015, 06:08 PM Post #3 |
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All of that makes sense. Hershey developed it later on well after he was bred. I asked my breeder friend after I posted this and it's very common in Hollands. I guess people just pluck them before a show. I'll try as much as I can to avoid it but from what you said, looks like I'm in a lloonngg battle lol
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| wildrabbits | Sep 24 2015, 02:14 PM Post #4 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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I agree with neubunny's points. I also firmly believe gene interactions from cchd, cchl, ch, and c genes can all cause duller color and/or white hairs when paired with C-dominant genotypes. I think a somewhat easy way to sort of hide this is to shift your bloodlines to blue and lilac C-gene colors(white hairs more noticeable on chocolate/black coats) but I don't know how it would all work in shows.. |
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| volz83 | Sep 25 2015, 10:54 AM Post #5 |
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Those are showable colors however lilac in Hollands is extremely rare. I do want a blue with shaded background. |
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| reh | Sep 30 2015, 08:28 AM Post #6 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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I dont think completely uncolored hair is caused by lower C serie genes, even fewer of such alleles carryed by full color animals. At least i have no idea how a somewhat impaired tyrosinase could cause single hair follicles not beeing able to produce color. |
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| wildrabbits | Sep 30 2015, 04:45 PM Post #7 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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If homozygous genotypes don't display the most accurately formed description of how a color should appear and is effected by said genes, then why assume heterozygous genotypes wouldn't change the phenotypes??? My understanding is homozygous genotypes give us the clearest demonstration of what a specific gene of a certain allele does phenotypically without any possible influence of another gene effecting the phenotype at the same allele. CC should always appear most colorful and cc to always appear the least colorful.. Everything between are various spectrums and interacting genotypes from most to least color throughout the coat's phenotype. Heterozygous Cc genotypes have been known to have stray white hairs for some time, commonly on mid to rear flanks without a distinctive pattern of any sort. Cc can have this effect so why wouldn't C_ be effected by shaded genes that are dominant to c? The answer is incomplete dominance. I propose the easiest solution to be shifting the bloodlines to shaded blue and/or lilac colors for simplest adjustment, especially if you are open to the idea of it Volz =) |
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| volz83 | Sep 30 2015, 08:57 PM Post #8 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Well it just so happens that I will be getting a solid blue doe out of shaded lines this coming Saturday. When she reaches 6 months old, she will be bred to my Siamese Sable, Mocha in hopes for maybe a smoke pearl and to improve the type in my Siamese Sables. If I get a nice solid blue buck out of her I will keep him to breed to my shaded kits. I want to get dilute genes in my line while improving type and maybe adding a self blue will help with stray white hairs? My doe Lexus has a lot of stray hair right now.. scarred throughout her whole body but it is molting out right now with her baby coat so no idea how many she will actually have with her adult coat.
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| NeuBunny | Oct 1 2015, 07:53 AM Post #9 |
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Genetics Geek!
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I wasn't necessarily attributing the effect to heterozygosity at the C-locus (though I think that is also possible) so much as that when you do have stray white (due to modifiers, odd/rare recessive genes, etc) it is less visible on the lighter portions of the coat (you can easily see stray white on a black coat, not so easily on sable and barely at all on a light smoke pearl) and so harder to select against. In most breeds, where that isn't going to cost you more than 2-3 points on the showtable at most, people really don't bother to select against those genes. That lets them become more prevalent in the sub-population. |
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| volz83 | Oct 1 2015, 01:13 PM Post #10 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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yeah it is frustrating people don't try to breed this out, I will for sure try with Lexus. |
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| reh | Oct 1 2015, 02:32 PM Post #11 |
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Get the Duct Tape, Stat!
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C is fully dominant to other c series alleles (you mismatched gene with allele). If it would work like you said, there should be no stray white hair in german rabbits. In Germany breeders are not allowed to crossbreed colors (thus there colored rabbits dont carry c). But they struggle with this problem too. But f.e. in albino rabbits surely nobody select against it. Edited by reh, Oct 1 2015, 02:40 PM.
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www.rabbitcolors.info - Images and Gene Codes www.satinangora.de | |
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| wildrabbits | Oct 6 2015, 11:01 PM Post #12 |
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Hopelessly Addicted to the Fuzz
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Good eye Reh, thank you for correcting me there. Also you make a great point, for some rabbit color genotypes people cant really selectively breed out stray white hairs at all. |
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| volz83 | Oct 9 2015, 07:38 PM Post #13 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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yeah I understand with REW, impossible to know if stray white hairs. I will try my best to breed it out of my shaded the best I can if it's possible. I have a nice blue doe with no stray hairs and getting a nice black with shaded background with no stray hairs to. |
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| redbunny | Dec 28 2015, 09:47 AM Post #14 |
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I've had this in my chocolate line. A perfect coated Buck and doe producing the very occasional youngster which develops fairly awful white hairs....not just one or two. Youngsters start off ok but the whites hairs start appearing at about four months and gets steadily worse. I've never put this down to ch or c or any other colour related gene and don't see any reason to do so. It's a fault just like other issues l ef big ears, type etc and so I don't breed from them. Maybe we can blame modifiers! |
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| NeuBunny | Dec 28 2015, 10:04 AM Post #15 |
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Genetics Geek!
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lol - Since 'modifier' is just shorthand for 'a minor gene we haven't studied or named yet' I always blame modifiers! |
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When she reaches 6 months old, she will be bred to my Siamese Sable, Mocha in hopes for maybe a smoke pearl and to improve the type in my Siamese Sables. If I get a nice solid blue buck out of her I will keep him to breed to my shaded kits. I want to get dilute genes in my line while improving type and maybe adding a self blue will help with stray white hairs? My doe Lexus has a lot of stray hair right now.. scarred throughout her whole body but it is molting out right now with her baby coat so no idea how many she will actually have with her adult coat.

1:39 PM Jul 11