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Memberships & Points
Topic Started: Aug 30 2011, 03:30 PM (1,029 Views)
wooly_queen
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I suppose this kind of fits here. lol

I am turning 19 in a few days, do I have to update my ARBA membership right away? I would have to update and pay again for all my clubs as well right?

Also, is there a way to combine a mother/daughter membership? That's the family member ship option right? Would we have to be separate, collect sweeps points separately, and possibly compete against each other at the shows? Or would everything be combined all the time? I recall seeing siblings in youth do this combination of points. Do they put both names or just one name on entry forms and it automatically gets added together no matter which name gets written? then they can't compete against each other ever because their points are one and the same....

I'm really sorry if that's confusing. :lol:
Edited by wooly_queen, Aug 30 2011, 03:32 PM.
~ Briana - Open Breeder in Michigan ~
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Bumper
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You don't have to renew / re-pay for your membership in any club. Just renew as an adult next time your membership is due. The only exception is MSRBA, which is really a separate club from MSRBYA.

You should, however, notify the secretaries by email that you are turning open, so they can start tracking you as having open points.

If you get a family membership, you can either show together or separate -- it's up to you. If you want to show with your mom, just put both of your names on the entry form, and they'll count your joint points. Just make sure both of you are members; whether you sign up as a family or individuals doesn't matter.

I hope that makes sense.

--Ellyn
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GorbyJobRabbits
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We show seperate. I have a 'husband/wife' arba membership. I have my card, and Randy has his card. I show buns in my name, and I show his in his lol. We would be under the same farm, but he has 1 or 2 of his.
- Crystal
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wooly_queen
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thanks ladies! i think i understand! lol
~ Briana - Open Breeder in Michigan ~
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SatinsRule
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wooly_queen
Aug 30 2011, 03:30 PM
Would we have to be separate, collect sweeps points separately, and possibly compete against each other at the shows? Or would everything be combined all the time?
Everyone has their own sense of what is right and wrong, and while I'm not trying to force my belief system on anyone else, here is my viewpoint on it.

Multiple adults competing under the same sweepstakes "name" is a prime example of how skewed the points totals in the national and local sweepstakes have become. One of the top exhibitors in the national satin points totals is really 4 different adult breeders all competing as adults and being allowed to combine their totals into one "breeder". I'm not the only person who has noticed it, and it's becoming a source of aggravation for a growing number of other breeders and exhibitors who find out about it.

Your sweepstakes points should be separate from other family members when you become an adult, regardless of whether or not the club legislates in such a way which allows you to get over on the system.
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Bumper
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I think when people live together and share a rabbitry, like in Bri's case here, showing as a family is way-okay. I do get bothered when people who live in separate households and even different states -- sometimes totally different parts of the country -- group their points together. But hey, I can also see wanting to do a project with a friend.

Say I did start a joint project with a friend, because we saw an area that needed improvement in our breed and totally traded breeding stock back and forth. We could get criticized either way. Either people could say, "they're lumping their points together trying to get ahead;" or "they're showing under 2 different names to make sure there's enough for legs, when really it's one herd." I guess it's hard to judge others' motives.
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SatinsRule
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Bumper, I can promise you that what you described is NOT what is going on in the case I cited above. We are talking 4 people well into adulthood, and I don't mean late 20's either. I'm talking about a father, mother, daughter and her husband. The daughter is at least into her 30's, and the son-in-law is well into his 40's. They enter under the same rabbitry to the tune of 20-30 rabbits per show, but list 4 different breeders. They're not only manipulating the points contests, but the grand champion legs as well. It would be one thing if I was the only person who's noticed it, but I know for a fact that I'm not, as I've heard the same things out of other breeders who are members of the same national club. The local breeders at club shows won't say anything to them for fear of losing the entry fees at future shows. They choose to tolerate it instead.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. It is one thing to show as a husband, wife, and teenage daughter or son under the age of 18. Once they reach their 19th birthday, they become adults in just about any club or organization you can name for us. As such, the young man or woman should do the right thing and enter the shows and sweepstakes contests as an adult and quit riding on the coattails of parents.

As for the scenario of 2 breeders working closely with one another, every one of us is guilty of having a breeder or two whom we work closely with. That's not a manipulation of legs qualifications or really anything else, so long as the breeder showing the rabbit(s) in question are the rightful owners. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's a completely different type of fruit.
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GorbyJobRabbits
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I honestly think the points systems are screwed up. My goal was to get in the top 10 this year of one breed standings with 3 rabbits at most shows. Its been 3 really nice rabbits. And I'm high up in points. BUT everyone in the top drags out 10-15 rabbits a show. So they gobble up a lot of points. And most in the top 5 are from the same area. All bringing crap rabbits to fill classes (not to mention cheated at the show we went down to) just to get a leg, and to get high up in points. When you are showing crap rabbits against few good rabbits, of course you wlil be high in standings and it will always be the same rabbits on top, and they are in tops of sweepstakes, and high ThatBreed points....... Point systems are not fair.
Edited by GorbyJobRabbits, Aug 31 2011, 07:16 AM.
- Crystal
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SatinsRule
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Gorby, I don't think it would be at all unreasonable to run the sweepstakes contests on more of a quality points basis rather than the flat rate nonsense which goes on now. Stop rewarding people who enter large numbers of rabbits in order to stockpile points, and start rewarding people with quality rabbits instead. Our old state association from nearly 30 years ago did it, and it was the most rewarding program they ran. Do it something like:

Best of Breed 75 points + total number of rabbits entered in breed
Best Opposite Sex of Breed 50 points + total number of rabbits of same sex entered in that breed
Best of Variety 35 points + total number of rabbits entered in that variety
Best Opposite Sex of Variety 25 points + total number of rabbits entered in that variety
Top spots in each class = no. of rabbits entered in class

A breeder could make quite a killing in raw point totals off winning BOB or BOS in the same show, and is rewarded for putting quality rabbits across the table.

Stop the current mess of making class wins being worth 5 or 10 points X the number of rabbits entered in the class. It skews the entire points process to begin with.

But you know why we'll never see it happen? Clubs won't force it to happen because it will cut into their show numbers.
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fuzzypatch
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GorbyJobRabbits
Aug 31 2011, 07:12 AM
I honestly think the points systems are screwed up. My goal was to get in the top 10 this year of one breed standings with 3 rabbits at most shows. Its been 3 really nice rabbits. And I'm high up in points. BUT everyone in the top drags out 10-15 rabbits a show. So they gobble up a lot of points. And most in the top 5 are from the same area. All bringing crap rabbits to fill classes (not to mention cheated at the show we went down to) just to get a leg, and to get high up in points. When you are showing crap rabbits against few good rabbits, of course you wlil be high in standings and it will always be the same rabbits on top, and they are in tops of sweepstakes, and high ThatBreed points....... Point systems are not fair.
I've noticed something similar. There are people who are ahead of me who have never won a BOB, or BOS, but they have twice the points as me. It's about the numbers, and it you show 10 rabbits in a group that no one else shows in, it bumps your points high regardless of the type and condition the rabbits shown had. The way sweeps was explained to me is that you have to show a lot of rabbits in order to make it high.

I have a strict rule when I show. I don't show more than 4 rabbits at a time, unless I have a lot of juniors. No point in showing 20 if my top 4 can smoke them any day. Not that I have 20 to show :lol: That's just me, and I'm not competitive in sweeps at all.
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DevonW
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I don't judge by sweeps anymore, there are a couple breeders I know who are at shows every weekend and they enter 20 rabbits at each show, even if they don't win any top awards they're still hauling in points because of the sheer amount of rabbits they show. The point system is seriously misleading and I think it could use a big overhaul.
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fuzzypatch
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The problem is, how would they make it more fair? No matter which way they go, I'm sure they can manipulate it somehow.
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GorbyJobRabbits
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way lol. I live in an area with NO rabbit breeders... not to mention NONE with my breeds at all. We traveled down to TN and Alabama one weekend and I took a BOS in Show A, and that buck then got 2nd in his class. He's a very nice animal.

And I travel to Michigan to show against people... so i spend LOTS of money to make it fair and not stack the tables. And did great at Nationals, but when I don't have a group of friends an hour away and sanction every show and load the tables my efforts are mute. I've a just turned senior buck with 7 or 8 junior legs under him. Some from BOB... but it doesn't matter in sweepstakes when other ppl are just stacking lol.


the main breed that I do pay attention to points is 6 for first in class and thne 4 for 2nd and so on. And then BOB is like 1 point x number of rabbits....and BOS is .5 x number or rabbits. Or something like that.

should divide it by number of rabbits you have entered or something lol.
- Crystal
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wooly_queen
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My points are from showing 6 rabbits or less usually. lol And me and my mom would always be at the shows together and showing together the same rabbits because we live together and would always be sharing our rabbits. That's how I want it! I don't want to show separately. :)

I totally get how people abuse it... not fair. People need to get a life... lol
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fuzzypatch
Aug 31 2011, 09:49 AM
The problem is, how would they make it more fair? No matter which way they go, I'm sure they can manipulate it somehow.
It would be easy enough. Each national club should run two different sweepstakes categories: One would be the present sweepstakes, while the other would be labelled quality sweeps. For the quality sweeps category, use the points breakdowns similar to what I listed earlier, which does little to reward pure numbers while giving mega recognition to folks who win varieties and BOB/BOS, because that is where the biggest shares of points are awarded.

If the same person wins both categories, more power to them, but in the cases where it does not happen, it will pretty much weed out and identify people who are exhibiting purely for the points and nothing else.

And darn sure make anyone 19 years of age and older show by themselves, outside of married couples.

Of course, all this is assuming that the national clubs are in any way interested in reforming what is a flawed system. If they're not, it will remain as abused, flawed and meaningless as it is already.
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