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| Chin gene | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 6 2012, 11:39 AM (995 Views) | |
| fuzzypatch | Sep 6 2012, 11:39 AM Post #1 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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Can someone please explain to me how the Chinchilla gene works, and the requirements to get the color through breeding? |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 6 2012, 01:00 PM Post #2 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Here is what I know: C= Full Color chd = chinchilla chl = sable ch= pointed white c = REW If you breed chd to chd, chl, ch or c you should get chinchilla Achd or silver martin atchd. achd produces self chin, which I think produces a rabbit that looks closer to a self than a chin (self-chin explained here ) self chin explainedrabbitsmarties.com/2011/07/rabbit-color-genetics-chinchilla-explained/ I don't know exactly how the E gene affects the chd gene. Someone else will have to explain that one. Edited by TherapyBunnies, Sep 6 2012, 01:01 PM.
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 6 2012, 01:05 PM Post #3 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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I'm wondering if I could get one with the rabbits I have, but their individual genetic makeup confuses me. |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 6 2012, 01:11 PM Post #4 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Tell me what bucks & does you have with the chd gene & I will try to figure out your best options. |
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 6 2012, 02:18 PM Post #5 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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First off, ALL of my rabbits carry non-extension. Learned this through the various fawns and torts I got. Here is the lovely list of all the rabbits I breed: OPI: Opal buck- opal, orange, fawn, blue Emma: Opal doe - black, blue, chestnut, chin Dimple: Opal buck 2- offspring of the two above Braden: Rew buck - genetically black otter. Background: Sable Marten, Black Otter, Chestnut, Lynx (seriously think that one is an AFL), Smoke Pearl Marten Do You Remember: Tort buck - all tort of black, with a sable marten and rew in there. Night: Black doe - black, chocolate, lilac silver marten, orange, and lilac Marshmallow: Black doe - daughter of night above, dad was blue w/ black otter and rew in the background Tea Cup: Black Otter doe - daughter of Braden, mom was chocolate w/ black, lilac, chocolate, lilace and chocolate silver marten in the background. Marie: Rew doe - daughter of Tea Cup and Braden Ashe: Black Otter doe - daughter of Braden and Night Irish Lass: Smoke Pearl - rew, smoke pearl, siamese sable, chestnut, black otter, black, seal, rew who is a VC. |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 6 2012, 09:07 PM Post #6 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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Possibly and Most Likely Carrying chd: Emma C(chd), Night = C(chd) Unknows: Opi = C_, Possibly Carrying chd: Dimple = C (C)(chd), Marshmallow = C(C)(chd)(c) Possibly, most likely not: Do You Remember C(chl)(c) Not chd carriers: Braden = cc, Tea Cup = Cc (has REW offspring), Marie =cc, Ashe = Cc, Irish Lass = chlc (if parents are smoke pearl & REW), Braden = cc, Now, your REWs can be used to test breed with Emma & Night & Dimple to see if the chd gene expresses itself. A test breeding with a REW that results in a REW rules out chin & sable & verifies Cc. If it results in a sable that rules out chd & verifies Cchl. Edited by TherapyBunnies, Sep 6 2012, 09:09 PM.
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 6 2012, 11:24 PM Post #7 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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If Emma is carrying chin & you breed her to Opi again here is the most likely outcomes. Phenotypic Ratios: (10 combinations) ABCdE: Color: Opal 31.640625% AbCdE: Color: Lynx 10.546875% _BCdE: Color: Blue 10.546875% ABcchddE: Color: Squirrel 10.546875% ABCde: Color: Fawn 10.546875% _BCde: Color: Blue Tort 3.515625% AbcchddE: Color: Lilac Chin 3.515625% ABcchdde: Color: Ermine Blue/Gray Eyes 3.515625% _bCde: Color: Lilac Tort 1.171875% _bcchddE: Color: Black Self Chin 1.171875% Total Calculated 89% |
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 7 2012, 05:55 AM Post #8 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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I bred Emma to Braden, I got 4 Sable Chins (scared to repeat). Bred Emma to OPI, and got Opal and one Fawn. I do plan on breeding Marshmallow with OPI. What colors carry/have the chd gene? |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| NeuBunny | Sep 7 2012, 08:41 AM Post #9 |
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Genetics Geek!
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The chin gene can hide in ANY 'full color' rabbit (Cchd). REW, himi and sable can never hide chin. Additionally, some 'seals' and 'poor blacks' are actually self chins aachd- ... though a true genetic seal is chlchl and doesn't carry chin. For most breeds, the only colors that you WANT chin (so the ones to look for in the background of likely chin carriers) are the silver martens, chin and squirrel (blue chin). Above re non-extension. That's the one gene you DON'T want to combine with chin. Gives you things like frosties and sallanders. Learning that one the hard way as it seems MOST of my daughter's Jersey Woolies are proving to be non-extension carriers (and she's aiming for martens). Plus side is that those seem to sell well as pets -- her blue frosty kit was the first of the litter to sell, snapped up at the first swap meet she brought them to. sable chin is chlc -- which means Emma is carrying shaded, not chin (she's Cchl). That means Dimple probably isn't either. Night's your best candidate for being a chin carrier. She might be the one to test with Braden. You won't get chin's from that cross (as you said Braden was a genetic otter), but you might get silver martens. To run the odds I would need more info about the genes Braden is hiding...e.g., is he atat (which would give all otter kits with Night) or ata (half self kits with Night)? ... possibly carrying chocolate or dilute (Night's got lilac in her background, so she could carry either or both)? Breeding those silver martens back to Emma or Dimple could get you to chin (A-chdchl). |
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 7 2012, 09:15 AM Post #10 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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I bred Night to Braden and I got rew and black otter. I do have two daughters from Night. Braden is the only one that I'm not 100% sure on if he has non-extension or not. The rest I am positive on, and knowing me I'll get the unshowables before I get what I want. So if I find a marten (any specific color?) I can get chin? There is a chance that one may pop up though, so who do I breed Night to? |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 7 2012, 12:25 PM Post #11 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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If you bred Night & got REW then she is a Cc full color carrying REW, no possibility of chin offspring from her. If Emma & Braden produced a sable chin, and positively not a squirrel, then she is a sable (chl) carrier & not a chin (chd) carrier. Going back over your rabbits it looks like you do not have a chin carrier. The only one I really question is Emma possibly producing a squirrel or frosty & not sable chin, especially if the non-extension gene is in play. I am going through similar issues. I am waiting for results from test breeding to confirm if I have a Chin Lionhead (no pedigree info), she has produced black otters & chestnuts, I don't know what the buck was she was first bred to. I also have an 11 wk doe that I hope is a squirell & not sable chin. YOU WANT TO HAVE A CHINCHILLA (Achd), SILVER MARTIN (atchd) OR SELF CHINCHILLA (aachd). THEY CAN COME IN ANY COLOR BASE - BLACK [BD], BLUE [Bd], CHOCOLATE [bD], OR LILAC [bd] because those are determined by the B (color) and D (density - full color or dilute) genes. Avoid getting any Frost or Frosty as they are produced by the non-extension gene (ee) and can be chin (chd) or sable (chl) gene. Hope this helps clarify what you need better. |
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 7 2012, 03:10 PM Post #12 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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They were sable chin. I made a post in the color guide, and that is the litter. I've gotten real good at spotting that color, even on a broken. They haunt me.. I was just wondering, I wouldn't have been mad if I got one but it's not what I'm working towards. I want Chestnuts, but that's proving to be difficult. |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| NeuBunny | Sep 8 2012, 06:09 AM Post #13 |
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Genetics Geek!
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For chestnut, try one of your black otter does at-B-C-D-E- to one of your opal bucks A-B-C-ddE-. Edited by NeuBunny, Sep 8 2012, 06:10 AM.
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| fuzzypatch | Sep 8 2012, 12:25 PM Post #14 |
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Baby Gandalf ❤ R.I.P.
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I plan on redoing a previous breeding, but that's how I got the chocolate otter (peanut) and my little blue tort gandalf =(. Not looking forward to the unshowables that I can get. The non extension gene is strong in my herd. |
![]() -::- Kristina -::- Jersey Woolies in Florida -::- Website -::- Facebook -::- Blog -::- The Hoppin' Circle -::- | |
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| TherapyBunnies | Sep 8 2012, 09:31 PM Post #15 |
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Hey, look at you! You chatterbox you. Now you can request a new title! PM the Admin to do so
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By the way here are what we know about your buns' genotype: _ = unknown, ( ) = possibly carrying Opi - Opal = A_B_C_ddEe Emma- Opal, carrying sable, dilute & nonextension = A_B_CchlDdEe Night - Black =aaB(b)CcD(d)Ee Marshmallow - Black, possibly carries chocolate , REW & dilute =aaB(b)C(C or c)DdE_ Do You Remember - Tort, possibly carries sable and rew = aaB_C(chl or c)D_ee Braden- REW with Black Otter, at_B_ccD_Ee Tea Cup - Black Otter, chocolate carrier = at_BbCcD(d)E Marie - REW = at or aBccDEe Ashe: Black Otter = ataB_CcD_Ee daughter of Braden and Night Irish Lass: Smoke Pearl = aaB_chlc ddEe |
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Cara Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Therapy Bunny Breeder, Chaplain. Lionheads are my focus & Giant Chinchilla is my son's. My daughter's focus is Mini Lops and she has couple of show / pet rabbits. | |
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